The Brexit aftermath thread

[Slant]

Brexit aside, there is still value in protecting the minority. As it stands England essentially calls the shots and the rest of the home nations have to decide which half of England we agree with or be entirely ignored.


The people who would have been apoplectic just make the case for protecting the minority. If they were actually Unionists they wouldn't care which part of the UK tipped the balance, anger that the other Home Nations did is just anger that England doesn't call the shots. Those people shouldn't be pandered to.

Anyway this is starting to get a fair ways away from the Brexit discussion so I'll leave it here.

I find it mildly interesting. It's a bit of insight into the inner workings of the UK. We're all just waiting for May to announce that she doesn't have a clue on what to do and to resign in frustration, calling Cameron a silly bastard.

[Mormolyce]

I thought the UK was a Union of states, not a Unitary state?
Maybe someone should explain to the English how Unions works.

It's a country consisting of several smaller countries.

Don't worry, it doesn't make any sense, it's not just you.

What you suggested completely flies in the face of democracy, it gives a disproportionate value to the voters in the smaller nations, it is utterly unreasonable; it is not offering political cover it is the type of democracy that only occurs in dictatorships.

You mean like... the US Electoral College system? And even moreso, the Senate.

Actually I think most Senates work like that, ours does. Not sure how the UK's upper house is selected.

House of Lords isn't it? I guess we're getting into very murky territory if we start to discuss how representative of the people the peerage is lol.

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I find it mildly interesting. It's a bit of insight into the inner workings of the UK. We're all just waiting for May to announce that she doesn't have a clue on what to do and to resign in frustration, calling Cameron a silly bastard.

She should've taken his example to heart and quit after the election went south. At least salvage a shred of dignity out of the affair.

[Tinch]

Double post

[Tinch]

why do people continue to shout about predictions based on Cameron saying a vote to leave means triggering article 50 immediately the day afterwards (which would have been a complete fucking shit show, as we are now demonstrating after having a year + to prepare) as evidence that predictions were wrong?

Article 50 was triggered 9 months ago and the predictions still haven't happened.

If you're saying that the predictions were solely based on article 50 being triggered on that exact day, then why was so much weight put into predictions that were obviously so fragile?

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/site...int_report.pdf

The initial deal has been struck and agreed to by both parties.

Citizens rights to be governed by the European Court of justice
citizens legally resident in the UK and Europe before the end of the transition period are to retain their rights
no discrimination allowed against them
border between NI and RoI to remain open, NI to remain in FTA
UK to contribute to the EU budget up to 2020,and to remain in various organisations like euratom and the asylum seekers fund

So what did the Leavers actually win? From what I've seen in the document, you could summarise it with "the status quo continues"

[Huehuecoyotl]

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/site...int_report.pdf

The initial deal has been struck and agreed to by both parties.

Citizens rights to be governed by the European Court of justice
citizens legally resident in the UK and Europe before the end of the transition period are to retain their rights
no discrimination allowed against them
border between NI and RoI to remain open, NI to remain in FTA
UK to contribute to the EU budget up to 2020,and to remain in various organisations like euratom

I'm struggling to make sense of the deal. Because it says that NI will keep an open border, and effectively remain in the FTA. But it also says there will never be a border in the Irish sea, AND it says that they UK is leaving the EU in a form that has to mean that the UK is leaving the FTA. For the life of me I can't imagine how that is going to work practically.

You can understand why everyone is happy to sign this deal; it seems to give all sides what they want. But it's impossible, so at some point this Schrodinger's Brexit will have to be resolved to one outcome or the other. When it does, there are going to be some very unhappy people. Given that there are cast iron guarantees that NI will remain linked to both the EU and the UK, I'm pretty sure it's the hard Brexit crowd that are going to be angry and upset further down the line. What a shame.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

I'm struggling to make sense of the deal. Because it says that NI will keep an open border, and effectively remain in the FTA. But it also says there will never be a border in the Irish sea, AND it says that they UK is leaving the EU in a form that has to mean that the UK is leaving the FTA. For the life of me I can't imagine how that is going to work practically.

You can understand why everyone is happy to sign this deal; it seems to give all sides what they want. But it's impossible, so at some point this Schrodinger's Brexit will have to be resolved to one outcome or the other. When it does, there are going to be some very unhappy people. Given that there are cast iron guarantees that NI will remain linked to both the EU and the UK, I'm pretty sure it's the hard Brexit crowd that are going to be angry and upset further down the line. What a shame.

Yeah, Northern Ireland basically staying in the EU (that's pretty much what the deal says) and the stipulation that there is to be no border between the RoI, NI and the UK, ends any fantasy that the UK will leave the EFTA and the ECU.

[Demolitia]

I honestly expect the UK to stay de facto in the ECU by agreeing on all the components of the ECU without joining the ECU proper.

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Paragraph 49

HAHAHAHAHAHA

So now we basically wait for their EFTA application ?

[Huehuecoyotl]

And it also means that all those EU workers who have been taking their jobs in the UK will stay and have full rights.

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I honestly expect the UK to stay de facto in the ECU by agreeing on all the components of the ECU without joining the ECU proper.

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Paragraph 49

HAHAHAHAHAHA

That is the one that the hard Brexit crowd will have a fit about, once they think it through and realise what it means. It is basically saying that if we can't find a solution to an impossible problem around Ireland, we will effectively stay under the EU sphere of influence permanently.

Mind you, those hard Brexit types seem to think that problem can be solved by a bit of software and determination. So maybe their ignorance could actually play in our favour this time.

[Pann]

I've only had a brief look at the agreement so far but at what stage are we going to start taking back control?

Well done Dave; http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politi...20171129140020

Anyway at least we're moving onto stage 2. I can't wait to see how badly we get shafted but remember we buy a lot of BMWs and Audi so 'they need us more than we need them' - anyone for cake?

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Oh dear. Nige is not happy.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...al-trade-talks

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...iness-leaders/

I guess every cloud really does have a silver lining.

[Slant]

So, I wonder... where are the hordes of Brexiteers with their big mouths now?

[Omega10]

So, basically Brexit ended up being a transfer of power from UK to EU?

[Slant]

Well I am sure they will back at Nothing is Agreed until Everything is Agreed. Which is true, the UK or the EU can both blow this up at any point until the actual exit.

Imo the only thing that the UK government is afraid of going home without is an agreement for financial services trade. Their leashholders will be most unhappy if they don't get that so they will give everything to the EU as long as they can get that. I personally am mostly happy with that; losing London would be a disaster for the global economy. It would not be replaced; instead we'd have several centers replace it and lose significant global economies of scope.

Hum, the banking authority and that pharmaceutical EU institute will move to mainland Europe regardless. They are EU institutions and cannot reside outside EU borders, free trade agreement or not. I fear, if this is a preview on how things will end up, the whole business will still be a slight net loss for the UK. Although not as dramatic as a hard exit could be. So, hey, the deal is not too shabby, really.

[Deleted]

UK will obey EU regulations without any say in them, European Court supremacy in some areas and EU payments continue for years, no border checks in Ireland, EU Citizens rights in UK guaranteed. lmfao 'brexit means brexit!'

[Deleted]

May should be drawn and quartered. I'd hope she at least got some form of guarantee (though obviously not written) that they will keep their rights to trade in Euro-denominated financial instruments and favourable trade relations for financial products (i.e. she'll fellate the rest of Europe so the City gets what it wants and fuck the people).

It's not her fault, she was tasked with doing some impossible things; To regain regulatory and customs authority, thereby creating a border, Said border could not be on the island of Ireland, and could not be in the Irish sea - but that's impossible.
She was tasked with maintaining the integrated EU UK economy, whilst extricating the UK from the EU Economy, again, that's impossible.
I just wish someone would have told the British voters this beforehand...

[Kiri]

I've only had a brief look at the agreement so far but at what stage are we going to start taking back control?

Well done Dave; http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politi...20171129140020

Anyway at least we're moving onto stage 2. I can't wait to see how badly we get shafted but remember we buy a lot of BMWs and Audi so 'they need us more than we need them' - anyone for cake?

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Oh dear. Nige is not happy.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...al-trade-talks

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017...iness-leaders/

I guess every cloud really does have a silver lining.

I do like how Farage says 'this is not what 17.4 million people voted for', as if there had been any details on the ballot. He's a psychic now.

[Slant]

I do like how Farage says 'this is not what 17.4 million people voted for', as if there had been any details on the ballot. He's a psychic now.

He's never done anything else than sell these meaningless one-liners.

[dribbles]

Is dribbles crying right now?

Hahaha not at all, the EU and UK have nothing but weasel words from politicians full of hot air, today is no biggie and you answer your own question.

Well I am sure they will back at Nothing is Agreed until Everything is Agreed. Which is true, the UK or the EU can both blow this up at any point until the actual exit.

Nice to see the UK backdoor to the EU market is confirmed via NI whatever the circumstances. The ten DUP politicians tail wagging the EU dog, how embarrassing!

All on track steady as we go, tick tock, 476 days to independence day.

[Deleted]

lol @dribbles

after 8 months the UK capitulated to every single EU demand. Hows reality?

To be fair the UK did get a few compromises from the EU i'll list them here :

[Dizzeeyooo]

Article 50 was triggered 9 months ago and the predictions still haven't happened.

If you're saying that the predictions were solely based on article 50 being triggered on that exact day, then why was so much weight put into predictions that were obviously so fragile?

worst case predictions for brexit before the day of the referendum were, unsurprisingly, based on the stated worst case at that time - that we would trigger article 50 immediately with zero planning or preparation, and immediately begin the process of damaging our country

predictions based on what politicians say do not suddenly become "fragile" or wrong when politicians later change what they are saying or "forget" what they said