The Brexit aftermath thread

[Deleted]

Staggering how good the EU are at this. Get the UK to fold to every demand and let May strut around as if she had won.

[Dhrizzle]

Nice to see the EU backdoor to UK regulation is confirmed via NI and the ECJ whatever the circumstances. The ten DUP politicians tail wagging the Westminster dog, how embarrassing!

All on track steady as we go, tick tock, 841 days to probably still dependent day.

Fixed that for you.

[Deleted]

lol @dribbles

after 8 months the UK capitulated to every single EU demand. Hows reality?

To be fair the UK did get a few compromises from the EU i'll list them here :

No no, to be fair, the EU wanted 15 years of ECJ supremacy, not 8.
That's one thing.

[Deleted]

Hahaha not at all, the EU and UK have nothing but weasel words from politicians full of hot air, today is no biggie and you answer your own question.

Fun - But you get that all things that changed were UK things?

Nice to see the UK backdoor to the EU market is confirmed via NI whatever the circumstances. The ten DUP politicians tail wagging the EU dog, how embarrassing!

yeah, i don't think you understand what the UK agreed to - they said all UK regulations will be the same, and that the NI regulations (which therefore means the entire UK) will be the same as the Irish, which means the EU - Say Hi to vassal status.

All on track steady as we go, tick tock, 476 days to independence day.

Think you are forgetting the 728 days of being a subject of the EU.

[Tinch]

Everyone seems to be getting very excited about what was essentially a kick the can down the road exercise.

We've got a fudge on Ireland, a time limited agreement on the involvement of the ECJ and a decision on citizens rights which everyone knew was going to be agreed anyway. The divorce bill is also reportedly much lower than what people were claiming.

Most of what has been agreed is so woolly that it could mean anything to anyone. The real negotiations start now.

[Slant]

These were the real negotiations - if you mean trade I consider them minor.

Nah. This was just the prelude. The eu has just warmed up. Niw they can talk about shit the eu is actually champion at: trade. Watch when they actually flex their muscles.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

Staggering how good the EU are at this. Get the UK to fold to every demand and let May strut around as if she had won.

That's what happens when one party sends the best negotiators in Europe and the other party sends the grammar school debate team.

[Deleted]

Everyone seems to be getting very excited about what was essentially a kick the can down the road exercise.

We've got a fudge on Ireland, a time limited agreement on the involvement of the ECJ and a decision on citizens rights which everyone knew was going to be agreed anyway. The divorce bill is also reportedly much lower than what people were claiming.

Most of what has been agreed is so woolly that it could mean anything to anyone. The real negotiations start now.

The UK was massacred and gave into to every EU demand. Meaning that further negotiations are going to be more of the same. The EU will get everything it wants.

[Tinch]

The UK was massacred and gave into to every EU demand. Meaning that further negotiations are going to be more of the same. The EU will get everything it wants.

Did they?

The Ireland question was a fudge and the wording could mean anything to anyone. It literally means nothing until the trade talks are finalised.

The EU wanted the ECJ to maintain jurisdiction for 15 years, the Brexiteers wanted zero, we ended up with 8. Pretty much as meeting in the middle as you can get.

The divorce bill is rumoured to be £35-40 billion, again pretty much meeting in the middle when you take into account the numbers that were being bandied about.

The rights of citizens is another reciprocal arrangement so is again in reality a 50/50 compromise.

Feel free to correct me where I'm wrong but that's my understanding of the deal, although admittedly I haven't had chance to read it in detail yet.

[Shadowmelded]

The Ireland question is a little more significant than a fudge. No hard North/South border and no sea border. Failure to come up with a solution that adheres to both of those things means no regulatory divergence.

[Tinch]

The Ireland question is a little more significant than a fudge. No hard North/South border and no sea border. Failure to come up with a solution that adheres to both of those things means no regulatory divergence.

Nobody wants a hard border so there are no winners and losers in that regard.

Ireland wanted the clause to state no regulatory divergence, but the UK didn't agree to it. Instead we have 'regulatory alignment' which as the commentary after has demonstrated, no one has the feintest idea what that actually entails.

[Shadowmelded]

Nobody wants a hard border so there are no winners and losers in that regard.

Ireland wanted the clause to state no regulatory divergence, but the UK didn't agree to it. Instead we have 'regulatory alignment' which as the commentary after has demonstrated, no one has the feintest idea what that actually entails.

A fair analysis.

[Shadowmelded]

Behind a paywall.

Incognito should work. Failing that, searching for the title on google news and clicking the link from there often seems to get around paywalls.

[Deleted]

Nobody wants a hard border so there are no winners and losers in that regard.

Ireland wanted the clause to state no regulatory divergence, but the UK didn't agree to it. Instead we have 'regulatory alignment' which as the commentary after has demonstrated, no one has the feintest idea what that actually entails.

The only solutions that permit a soft border will necessarily undercut UK regulatory and customs autonomy -

[Shadowmelded]

nope, doesn't work in a private window either.

Ok well essentially; The same regulatory outcome is expected, how the Uk arrives at that is up to the Uk. Also worth noting that it's "Full regulatory alignment" as Tinch left out.

[Edge-]

So...uh...did the UK actually "win" anything in what's looking like an all but complete concession to the EU?

I'm not as familiar with this whole thing, but a glance at the terms seem like UK got nothing that Brexiteers wanted but instead had to cave to EU demands across the board. If I'm wrong please let me know, because this looks like a pretty humiliating defeat for UK negotiators.

[Slant]

Well these were the actual brexit talk, trade is still secondary.

It may become the primary concern, since a lot of the juicy things that make or break an economy are included in the "trade" bit rather than the political bit. The Northern Irish problem? EU people in Brussels don't really care about that beyond making Ireland happy. They're more interested in how much money this will cost.

[Vankrys]

So...uh...did the UK actually "win" anything in what's looking like an all but complete concession to the EU?

I'm not as familiar with this whole thing, but a glance at the terms seem like UK got nothing that Brexiteers wanted but instead had to cave to EU demands across the board. If I'm wrong please let me know, because this looks like a pretty humiliating defeat for UK negotiators.

UK was never going to win much. Only the most delusional of brexiters thought it could. While the UK is a powerful country and economic power to be reckoned, one of the best in the world, it still is only a country. It can not rival with en entire continent.

The EU acted according its principle of free circulation of goods, labor and capital. 40% of UK export is in the EU. Can anyone imagine how much pressure that meant for the UK to stay in the free market? A country cannot afford a hit on 40% of its export. Meanwhile only 8% of the EU export are going to the UK. The EU did have the upper hand.

Theresa May had to keep the idea of a trade deal that allow the UK in the EU market alive, or her country would face a major exodus of industries and investors.

[Deleted]

So...uh...did the UK actually "win" anything in what's looking like an all but complete concession to the EU?

The truth is that they will not get complete freedom and France and Germany will still tell them what to do.
The people of the UK will get nothing out of this but a bleak future.

Within a 100 years, they went from being a world empire and controlling 1/3 of the world to being a insignificant island on Europe's leash. Quite a feat really.

[Shadowmelded]

So...uh...did the UK actually "win" anything in what's looking like an all but complete concession to the EU?

I'm not as familiar with this whole thing, but a glance at the terms seem like UK got nothing that Brexiteers wanted but instead had to cave to EU demands across the board. If I'm wrong please let me know, because this looks like a pretty humiliating defeat for UK negotiators.

In a convoluted way, yeah. Hard Brexit was taken off the table so I guess that counts as a win, although more over the hardliners in Westminster than the EU.

The truth is that they will not get complete freedom and France and Germany will still tell them what to do.
The people of the UK will get nothing out of this but a bleak future.

Within a 100 years, they went from being a world empire and controlling 1/3 of the world to being a insignificant island on Europe's leash. Quite a feat really.

Weren't you pro-Brexit?