View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #18621
    Quote Originally Posted by dippinsawse View Post
    I wanted to watch this and get more perspective on the situation but I got like ten minutes into the first video and couldn't stomach it anymore. I know you have good intentions but this shit is such obvious propaganda. How do people see this and not notice the obvious emotional manipulation?

    They haven't explained any positions yet but have devoted several minutes trying to establish silly things to pre program the viewer like how much of a good, normal, likable guy verhoefstadt is...See guys, he's just a down to earth dude who wants to make wine in his country villa and has a loving family and wife who he met and stayed with since he was 17. It's a classic manipulation tactic.
    Here's the EU position right now about UK leaving:

    "Tell us what you want and we'll see if it breaks the 4 pillars.". That's it. You can't make a 2 hour video about what is essentially 1 line.

    The documentary was showing how things are going through the eyes of the EU, how they see it and they see it as bonkers. They see our representatives as devoid of rationality. Especially the dumbfuck who was all "You're the ones screwing Ireland over." talk as if the Tories sent Dribbles to talk to Verhoefstad. Since the guy seemingly didn't know how WTO terms work.

    Or when David Davis basically told them "You'll back down, you always do.".

    The UK during this time made 2 main mistakes. Firstly they treated this part as a negotiation. It never was, it is and always has been a legal process. The negotiations happen next if the UK leaves deal or not. Secondly they either didn't know about WTO terms or they absolutely believed the EU would compromise the 4 pillars over not having a no deal thinking the latter was worse for the EU than the former.

    May herself made many more mistakes. Firstly calling an election and treating it as a sure win instead of going out there to campaign and go to the debates. If she did that she likely would have got more MPs (although seeing how the tories are that might have mean more ERG nutters instead).

    If the EU made any mistakes it was basically being too nice and caring too much how the UK media viewed them, which is shown in the documentary.

  2. #18622
    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    Being physically unable to watch more then 10 mins of a show because it dares to mention that the people involved might have a home life suggests a certain amount of anger.


    Documentaries showing a human side to the professional people they focus on has been a thing for as long as documentaries have existed.

    If shows focusing on MEPs who actually do work in Europe (unlike the racist twats we like to send who turn up once a month for edited social media clips and then leave again) had done more of this over the last 10-20 years, maybe "faceless Brussels bureaucrats" and other idiotic phrases would be less common in the UK.
    No it suggests a disinterest in wasting two hours on something that is designed to influence rather than inform.

    You didn't answer the question. Simply saying that it exists and has been common doesn't explain why it is done. They do it for a reason. They spent time filming these moments because it serves a purpose. I think it is clear that the purpose is to get the viewer to identify with the person involved and be more open to forming the "right' opinion based on appreciating that human element rather than feeling his actual behavior and viewpoint on the matter of brexit was just.

    When people say things like, "faceless brussels bureaucrats," they aren't literally talking about their faces or knowing who is involved. They are talking about how these people are unaccountable to the average person and serve shadowy interests behind closed doors which was pretty obviously displayed as a reality in this video regardless of its attempts to humanize verhoefstadt.

  3. #18623
    Quote Originally Posted by dippinsawse View Post
    When people say things like, "faceless brussels bureaucrats," they aren't literally talking about their faces or knowing who is involved. They are talking about how these people are unaccountable to the average person and serve shadowy interests behind closed doors which was pretty obviously displayed as a reality in this video regardless of its attempts to humanize verhoefstadt.
    And there we go down the Brexit Party shaped rabbit hole.

    Elected politicians like Verhoefstadt are unaccountable to the average person (apart from when they vote for or against him in elections).

    Documentaries that attempt to form an emotional link between viewers and participants are secret EU propaganda tools to brainwash plucky Brits into losing sight of the Brexit unicorns waiting for us over the horizon.

    Thank god we have people like you to warn us of the dangers of seeing EU politicians as people instead of faceless un-elected unaccountable enemies.
    Last edited by Dizzeeyooo; 2019-05-12 at 05:01 PM.

  4. #18624
    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    And there we go down the Brexit Party shaped rabbit hole.

    Elected politicians like Verhoefstadt are unaccountable to the average person (apart from when they vote for or against him in elections).

    Documentaries that attempt to form an emotional link between viewers and participants are secret EU propaganda tools to brainwash plucky Brits into losing sight of the Brexit unicorns waiting for us over the horizon.

    Thank god we have people like you to warn us of the dangers of seeing EU politicians as people instead of faceless un-elected unaccountable enemies.
    And yet you still have no explanation other than the obvious reality you ridicule.

  5. #18625
    Quote Originally Posted by dippinsawse View Post
    And yet you still have no explanation other than the obvious reality you ridicule.
    What is an "obvious reality" to you, is a set of insane conspiracy theories to many of the rest of us. The reality is, our explanation for your viewpoint is that you are some kind of crackpot that has chosen to believe things without a shred of proof, because they play into your particular form of bigotry. We don't need to explain why people aren't really heavily disguised lizard people, we can just ridicule you while you believe they are.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Brexophilia: The act of rubbing yourself against dead political ideas for sexual pleasure.

  6. #18626
    Quote Originally Posted by dippinsawse View Post
    I didn't expect a balanced viewpoint that represents both sides. I agree that would be silly. My point is that you can present one side's argument without these weird propaganda tactics of trying to make you like and identify with the core figure on their side. I'd like to see their side without the emotional manipulation where they show his wife cooking and shit.

    It reminds me of those sob story videos my girlfriend shows me where someone finds a cat missing two legs and it focuses on the emotional hardships the owner deals with as it nurses it back to health. It uses similar documentary tactics designed to elicit an emotional reaction from the viewer. That's what I have a problem with.
    You realise that the main point of this documentary is to follow Guy Verhofstadt, right? I mean, it shows us an interesting insight, but that's almost the byproduct. The main focus is on Guy and what he does in these negotiations. A little background on him is totally in line with the purpose of the documentary.

    That you start to like this guy probably has more to do with you actually liking the guy than the video "manipulating" you, which is what you seem to think.
    Last edited by Slant; 2019-05-12 at 05:43 PM.
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    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  7. #18627
    Quote Originally Posted by dippinsawse View Post
    And yet you still have no explanation other than the obvious reality you ridicule.
    You think elected politicians are unaccountable to people - you deserve all the ridicule you get.

  8. #18628
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    What is an "obvious reality" to you, is a set of insane conspiracy theories to many of the rest of us. The reality is, our explanation for your viewpoint is that you are some kind of crackpot that has chosen to believe things without a shred of proof, because they play into your particular form of bigotry. We don't need to explain why people aren't really heavily disguised lizard people, we can just ridicule you while you believe they are.
    People really need to stop throwing around the "conspiracy theory" label like that. What I said is not a conspiracy theory at all. Do you know what a conspiracy is? That's like calling it a conspiracy if someone brags about themselves to make people like them.

    We aren't talking about lizard people, don't get so nonsensical. We're talking about a documentary going out of its way to humanize a subject to get the viewer to empathize with him and be on his side before presenting the actual content of what he did. That's hardly out of the realm of possibility. Yes, it is obvious what they are doing. Again, if you disagree, you should be able to come up with ANY reasonable explanation if you are so keen on dismissing it as a likelihood. It seems you don't have one though and so you resort to trying to dismiss it as crazy in an attempt to distance yourself from an inconvenient truth.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    You think elected politicians are unaccountable to people - you deserve all the ridicule you get.
    I wasn't even arguing that...Reread what I said.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    You realise that the main point of this documentary is to follow Guy Verhofstadt, right? I mean, it shows us an interesting insight, but that's almost the byproduct. The main focus is on Guy and what he does in these negotiations. A little background on him is totally in line with the purpose of the documentary.

    That you start to like this guy probably has more to do with you actually liking the guy than the video "manipulating" you, which is what you seem to think.
    The point is to follow him? No. This isn't about him, it's about brexit. At best it is to show the negotiations from his perspective but that has nothing to do with his personal life. What value does it provide to show his personal life? How does that reflect on brexit?

    It's crazy how naive you people are about this sort of thing. You think the film crew was just like, "Okay now let's watch as your wife makes dinner, that's good content for this brexit documentary....it will really help people understand the EU's perspective on these negotiations." The film crew spent money and time on that. No, they knew what they were doing. They knew it woudn't inform you on brexit and they knew it would help humanize the EU's side.

    Do you guys see a politician kissing babies and think they just love children? I mean, honestly...I'm disturbed people fall for this and you point it out to them and they still can't grasp it. "It wasn't deliberate and calculated to manipulate the viewer, it was because Mrs verhoefstadt's cooking is relevant to a brexit documentary. You're just a conspiracy theorist."
    Last edited by dippinsawse; 2019-05-12 at 06:29 PM.

  9. #18629
    Quote Originally Posted by dippinsawse View Post
    I wasn't even arguing that...Reread what I said.
    Quote Originally Posted by dippinsawse View Post
    They are talking about how these people are unaccountable to the average person and serve shadowy interests behind closed doors which was pretty obviously displayed as a reality in this video regardless of its attempts to humanize verhoefstadt.
    Its literally what you said.

    Quote Originally Posted by dippinsawse View Post
    You think the film crew was just like, "Okay now let's watch as your wife makes dinner, that's good content for this brexit documentary....it will really help people understand the EU's perspective on these negotiations." The film crew spent money and time on that. No, they knew what they were doing. They knew it woudn't inform you on brexit and they knew it would help humanize the EU's side.
    For two years, Belgian film-maker, Lode Desmet, has had exclusive access to the Brexit co ordinator of the European parliament, Guy Verhofstadt, and his close knit team.
    Apparently "exclusive access" extends beyond the walls of the EU parliament building, who knew.
    Last edited by Dizzeeyooo; 2019-05-12 at 06:44 PM.

  10. #18630
    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    Its literally what you said.
    Explaining what people mean when they say something is me personally sharing and defending their beliefs? No. You were misrepresenting the idea someone conveys when they talk about "faceless bureaucrats" so I told you what they meant so you understood it did not apply to what we were talking about.

  11. #18631
    Quote Originally Posted by dippinsawse View Post
    Explaining what people mean when they say something is me personally sharing and defending their beliefs? No. You were misrepresenting the idea someone conveys when they talk about "faceless bureaucrats" so I told you what they meant so you understood it did not apply to what we were talking about.
    Quote Originally Posted by dippinsawse View Post
    which was pretty obviously displayed as a reality in this video
    So you don't think elected EU politicians are unaccountable, but you think it was pretty obviously displayed as a reality in this video that they are unaccountable?

  12. #18632
    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    Its literally what you said.



    Apparently "exclusive access" extends beyond the walls of the EU parliament building, who knew.
    Yes, just like exclusive access extends to someone's private home. Obviously they would need that to include their puff scenes. Just like if a team was following a presidential candidate and they filmed scenes at their grandmother's house showing them petting dogs and having family values. You realize you are not arguing against what I said, right?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    So you don't think elected EU politicians are unaccountable, but you think it was pretty obviously displayed as a reality in this video that they are unaccountable?
    Which was obviously referring to the part you conveniently unbolded in your quote. The part that was obviously displayed is that they were having talks behind closed doors. You see this early on in the video. It is a fact.

  13. #18633
    I regret not taking your advice @Kronik85
    Last edited by Dizzeeyooo; 2019-05-12 at 07:02 PM.

  14. #18634
    Quote Originally Posted by Dizzeeyooo View Post
    I regret not taking your advice @Kronik85
    I had the misfortune of dealing with dippinsawse in the Notre Dame thread where they insisted that saying Muslims burning down Notre Dame was not a conspiracy theory, despite to this day infact, there being no mention of arson regarding Notre Dame.

    Really not worth your time lol.

  15. #18635
    Quote Originally Posted by dippinsawse View Post
    The point is to follow him? No. This isn't about him, it's about brexit. At best it is to show the negotiations from his perspective but that has nothing to do with his personal life. What value does it provide to show his personal life? How does that reflect on brexit?

    It's crazy how naive you people are about this sort of thing. You think the film crew was just like, "Okay now let's watch as your wife makes dinner, that's good content for this brexit documentary....it will really help people understand the EU's perspective on these negotiations." The film crew spent money and time on that. No, they knew what they were doing. They knew it woudn't inform you on brexit and they knew it would help humanize the EU's side.

    Do you guys see a politician kissing babies and think they just love children? I mean, honestly...I'm disturbed people fall for this and you point it out to them and they still can't grasp it. "It wasn't deliberate and calculated to manipulate the viewer, it was because Mrs verhoefstadt's cooking is relevant to a brexit documentary. You're just a conspiracy theorist."
    We're not naive. We're what you call "adults" and find this documentary interesting, because it gives you an insight into the behind-the-scenes of international negotiations. This is an unprecedented and candid window into the upper echolons of politics that few of us have seen before. Whatever your position is, it is interesting. As it is following only one side of the negotiations, it's clearly biased and adults can take the information conveyed with a grain of salt. Some comments of his were clearly not very diplomatic and more than once I was surprised anyone greenlighted the release of this documentary.

    As for the "propaganda", I'm sorry, what is the new information being presented here? Nothing shown in the documentary is new in any way or form. In fact, the only "revelation" this shows is that Verhofstadt asked pretty much the same questions we've been asking here. All it does is really show that the EU is thinking like we are. Which is reassuring, but not really ideal to "manipulate" us in anything.

    How are you manipulated exactly? I mean, your attack on "showing his personal life" is clearly far fetched and a desparate attempt at ad homineming the whole documentary, but you really ought to work more for your agenda than you're doing now. Which is whinging, in case you hadn't realised.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Kronik85 View Post
    I had the misfortune of dealing with dippinsawse in the Notre Dame thread where they insisted that saying Muslims burning down Notre Dame was not a conspiracy theory, despite to this day infact, there being no mention of arson regarding Notre Dame.

    Really not worth your time lol.
    Oh, one of those guys... explains his weak ass fantasy arguments.
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  16. #18636
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    How are you manipulated exactly? I mean, your attack on "showing his personal life" is clearly far fetched and a desparate attempt at ad homineming the whole documentary, but you really ought to work more for your agenda than you're doing now. Which is whinging, in case you hadn't realised.
    It clearly hinders his attempts to pretend those are myterious shadowy figures who conspire to rule the world unseen.

  17. #18637
    Quote Originally Posted by Noradin View Post
    It clearly hinders his attempts to pretend those are myterious shadowy figures who conspire to rule the world unseen.
    Freemasons?
    Users with <20 posts and ignored shitposters are automatically invisible. Find out how to do that here and help clean up MMO-OT!
    “It’s majoritarian, the majority wins, it’s ruled by the majority for the majority – sod the minority. Whereas true democracy includes everybody’s opinion in society,” - Margaret Georgiadou, 2019 about Brexit referendum.
    PSA: Being a volunteer is no excuse to make a shite job of it.

  18. #18638
    Quote Originally Posted by Slant View Post
    Freemasons?
    He's obviously talking about the Illuminati! Haven't you heard, ze Germans are ruling Europe again
    Last edited by luckydevours; 2019-05-13 at 02:36 PM.
    Guns don't kill people! Toddlers kill people!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sulla View Post
    Senator Moore will be sitting in that seat and I hope it burns you to your core.

  19. #18639
    Quote Originally Posted by luckydevours View Post
    He's obviously talking about the Illuminati! Ze Germans are ruling Europe again
    Ewige Blumenkraft!
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Damnit hubcap, you are such a retard.
    Seriously guys, this forum would be a better place if everyone just stopped acknowledging Zenkai. It's just demeaning to everyone.

  20. #18640
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Ewige Blumenkraft!
    ... und ewige Schlangenkraft!
    Guns don't kill people! Toddlers kill people!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Sulla View Post
    Senator Moore will be sitting in that seat and I hope it burns you to your core.

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