The Brexit aftermath thread

[Slant]

I'm not sure they do but a much better place to argue with Pann about Pann's opinions probably involves Pann themselves rather than myself. Personally I think you are over blowing your own (and by that I mean Germany's significance) in Brexit. Yes, most Brexiteers will sing 10 German Bombers when given any opportunity but it's a mistake to think that this is why Brexit gained such traction. Brexit is largely a consequence of Right Wing Papers and Politicians using the EU as a scapegoat for as long as I've been alive. Taking the piss out of the Germans is just a national characteristic, one I will admit is fucking retarded at this point and maybe the Germans should start taking the piss out of us now that we have dropped all pretence to British superiority.

Dude, I've used it as an example. Right now you're the only one talking about Germany. I don't give a fuck about them whinging about Germany or caling the EU fascist or any other bullshit, because it's all bullshit. That's the point. But yeah, good job showing how you aren't hypertunnelling on the German issue, mate. Really, well done how you're able to see past the word and see the actual issue that I've laid out verbatim for you already. /s

[Pann]

No? Have he accomplished anything beside sending envoys to the EU (that does not take Johnson seriously since he has a habit of being a turncoat) and stating that a hard brexit is an option.

What are the odds that the EU would side with a leaving member state above a current member not to mention that it was the UK that started this procedure (which is its right).

None. Hes just another populist with a minimum amount of time to accomplish anything. There is of course the chance that it would suit him to extend domestically, but that begs the question again. Can he be trusted as in trusted by either the EU or his voter base.

Johnson is not interested in renegotiating anything (he may blink at the last minute but it is doubtful), he is busy preparing the Con party for no-deal and the following election.

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I'm not sure they do but a much better place to argue with Pann about Pann's opinions probably involves Pann themselves rather than myself. Personally I think you are over blowing your own (and by that I mean Germany's significance) in Brexit. Yes, most Brexiteers will sing 10 German Bombers when given any opportunity but it's a mistake to think that this is why Brexit gained such traction. Brexit is largely a consequence of Right Wing Papers and Politicians using the EU as a scapegoat for as long as I've been alive coupled with an apathy for educating the masses as to what the EU does. Taking the piss out of the Germans is just a national characteristic, one I will admit is fucking retarded at this point and maybe the Germans should start taking the piss out of us now that we have dropped all pretence to British superiority.

Sorry for involving you although I am not sure how this has happened since I have avoided this type involvement for several months and have no intention of changing that now. But sorry once again.

I think that is unfair and wrong to say that most Brexiteers would sing anti-German songs but I don't doubt there are many who would. I also think it is a an oversimplification to blame right wing papers and politicians using the EU as a scapegoat but to be honest I think we are long past the stage of looking for people to blame.

[LeGin Tufnel]

I still think the reaction is moronic and that media indoctrination helped shape opinions against the EU over decades. But what is most important is not how they chose Brexit, it's why. "Because they were told so by the media" is the "how".

Yes. But, apparently, I should respect this and not call them morons.

Telegraph: "The ComRes survey for The Telegraph found that 54 per cent of British adults think Parliament should be prorogued to prevent MPs stopping a no-deal Brexit."

Actually, that's completely innacurate:

https://www.markpack.org.uk/159481/d...ily-telegraph/

No, I have no respect for the right wing media or the fools who read and believe its output.

Just because one is entitled to hold an opinion does not that mean that the opinion should be respected.

[Crispin]

I still think the primary reason people voted for Brexit is as a form of protest. It is part of the continuing process of the people of developed nations trying to come to terms with the financial crisis and lashing out, perhaps unfairly, at any element of the world order they can get a chance to lash out against. At its best it is a desire to change things and at its worst it is simply nihilism and a desire to watch things burn. The racists, xenophobes and other varieties of bigots, the fascists and authoritarians, all these are a minority that is latching on to a fairly wide level of popular discontent in a world were people are tired of being told that they cannot understand how the global system works so they might as well not try and nod their heads. Do NOT do the bigots a favour and depict them as a plurality because that is exactly their purpose. If you paint everyone who is on their side of the political lane as a racist with the idea that will shame them you are far more likely to radicalize them instead.

I still think the reaction is moronic and that media indoctrination helped shape opinions against the EU over decades. But what is most important is not how they chose Brexit, it's why. "Because they were told so by the media" is the "how".

David Camerons rhetoric surely sealed it.

Watch this video for an example.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ember-deadline


In that case, the frustration in regards to the situation might be understandable. The right way to handle this would obvoiusly have been behind closed doors, and not by turning the public opinion against the EU, the guy went on a anti-EU campaign for years before the referendum. He's hands down the worst PM the UK has ever had.

[Crispin]

Sadly you are wrong here Kronik I see this shit from dumbass stupid Brexiteers all the time this sort of shit is posted all the time and they only delete it when I point out they're being arrogant pricks:



Yes brexit is for the racists and the stupid people who find it hard to let go of the past.

They honestly think it was the Brits who defeated Nazi germany? It's usually a fight between wether it was the Americans or the Soviets, which is a stupid debate to begin with, but the notion that the UK were the ones who beat down Nazi Germany is fucking hilarious.

[dribbles]

Indeed they think they are superior to anyone else ignorant to the facts of history but instead this is how they choose to see Germany/EU, which begs the question "Whose the real Nazi here?".

It is not about Nazi this or that, brexiteers are not the ones posting glossy maps with a Swastika plastered all over it in tribute. That's on remainers and EU fanatics dreaming of past, what they would consider, glory days.

We are genuinely concerned for our Teutonic friends and how Brexit is affecting them. From medicine to the auto industry, it really is a catastrophe for the EU in the making.

Medicine:- Exports to the UK look set to have collapsed by over 40% between 2015 and 2018, as the sector was hard hit by the exchange rate effect, given the UK's competitive pharmaceutical industry, which in many instances allows British consumers to choose among alternative domestic products

Auto industry:- Exports of German auto industry to the UK plummeted by over 20% from 2015 to 2018

And so on and so on...

https://www.dbresearch.com/servlet/r...0000000486826#

Now about that backstop and remember, nothing agitates Nazis like poverty, are you sure the EU wants to go back there?

[zealo]

They honestly think it was the Brits who defeated Nazi germany? It's usually a fight between wether it was the Americans or the Soviets, which is a stupid debate to begin with, but the notion that the UK were the ones who beat down Nazi Germany is fucking hilarious.

In general the cold war had a massive influence on what people in the west think about the USSR's contribution to it.
E.g

[Pann]

Yes. But, apparently, I should respect this and not call them morons.

Telegraph: "The ComRes survey for The Telegraph found that 54 per cent of British adults think Parliament should be prorogued to prevent MPs stopping a no-deal Brexit."

Actually, that's completely innacurate:

https://www.markpack.org.uk/159481/d...ily-telegraph/

No, I have no respect for the right wing media or the fools who read and believe its output.

Just because one is entitled to hold an opinion does not that mean that the opinion should be respected.

What do you gain from calling them morons? What does it accomplish? Aside from stoking the flames of division that exist today. And aren't you against adversarial politics? Insulting people for the way they vote seems pretty adversarial to me.

It is not completely inaccurate although the wording could be better and less inflammatory. Once the don't knows are removed then 54% agree that Brexit needs to be delivered by any means. It is quite standard to remove don't knows from polling results but they should have been clear that they have done this. Although I would point out that the Telegraph is not known as the Torygraph for nothing and if you are reading it then you should be aware of its pro-Tory bias.

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I would also point out the irony of searching the internet for bigoted and ignorant memes from the most crackpot Brexit supporters and then using it to label all Brexit voters as ignorant bigots.

[Bakis]

Are you on drugs? I mean seriously give me what you're on because jesus christ your levels of delusion and idiocy are astounding.

Whatever he suffer from I'm sure the NHS got the drugs to remedy it, after all its been stockpiling for years in preparation for Brexit.

[Crispin]

It is not about Nazi this or that, brexiteers are not the ones posting glossy maps with a Swastika plastered all over it in tribute. That's on remainers and EU fanatics dreaming of past, what they would consider, glory days.

We are genuinely concerned for our Teutonic friends and how Brexit is affecting them. From medicine to the auto industry, it really is a catastrophe for the EU in the making.

Medicine:- Exports to the UK look set to have collapsed by over 40% between 2015 and 2018, as the sector was hard hit by the exchange rate effect, given the UK's competitive pharmaceutical industry, which in many instances allows British consumers to choose among alternative domestic products

Auto industry:- Exports of German auto industry to the UK plummeted by over 20% from 2015 to 2018

And so on and so on...

https://www.dbresearch.com/servlet/r...0000000486826#

Now about that backstop and remember, nothing agitates Nazis like poverty, are you sure the EU wants to go back there?

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...istry-of-truth

Read that piece. The difference here is that EU companies will loose revenue. Not the possibility to export.

You’re the only one acting like it’s a zero-sum game, with britain winning at that. Truth is that it’s a lose-lose situation.

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Britain did defeat Nazi Germany by winning the Battle Of Britain. That was before the American entry into the war.

The liberation of Europe came after and was mainly down to Russian and American forces. That is a separate issue.

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You are not exactly a genius yourself.

Apart from posting mostly drunk, your philosophy basically seems to consist of:

1. Get another referendum which could easily result in another Leave vote.
2. Vote for the Liberal Democrats who are clearly itching to sell Leave voters out, so they can go into coalition with the Tories.

Lmfao. So britain defeated them but it was the
americans and soviets who liberated Europe ergo defeated nazi germany. You gotta be high to write such nonsense.

[dribbles]

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...istry-of-truth

Read that piece. The difference here is that EU companies will loose revenue. Not the possibility to export.

You’re the only one acting like it’s a zero-sum game, with britain winning at that. Truth is that it’s a lose-lose situation.

I never said it was a zero sum game. But every day bad news comes out about the pig headed EU because they seem to exist solely to inflict economic pain on their citizens. Todays headlines for example, tomorrows will be different but essentially more of the same...

"The EU will give us a better deal, because if they don’t Ireland is fucked. No deal will destroy it. No deal hurts us, the EU and Ireland - but it hurts Ireland the most," the cabinet minister said.

Whereas the optimism for the UK in a no deal comes just as fast...

Donald Trump’s adviser John Bolton says US will ‘enthusiastically’ support No Deal Brexit as he vows bumper trade deal

No one can be in any doubt now that Brexit was the right decision for the UK, it is madness that the EU are indulging in a bizarre self flagellation type exercise, just because their fee fees have been hurt.

It doesn't have to be this way, anyone sensible would see that. Such a shame that the EU are acting as some kind of demented crazy taking themselves off the no deal cliff edge...

[Crispin]

The UK were the ones who decided to leave, after getting a special treatment arrangement theough, the EU did negotiate a deal through with the UK, it’s not on the EU that the UK parliment rejected it, the EU is not negotiating on behalf of the UK. The Brits want another special treatment deal after having already negotiated a deal, who’s to say another deal wont be rejected by the nutcases in the lower house again.

But put your hopes on Trump, what a terrible alternative. It’s only beaten by “Putin will help us!” Pathetic

Btw

https://www.google.dk/amp/s/amp.theg...liticians-warn

He pointed out that such a complex trade deal could take four or five years, even without the Northern Ireland issue.

Sadly the americans wont be “rescuing” you, even in the utopia scenario where Trump could ignore the congress, he wont be president long enough for the deal to finish..

[Pann]

The UK were the ones who decided to leave, after getting a special treatment arrangement theough, the EU did negotiate a deal through with the UK, it’s not on the EU that the UK parliment rejected it, the EU is not negotiating on behalf of the UK. The Brits want another special treatment deal after having already negotiated a deal, who’s to say another deal wont be rejected by the nutcases in the lower house again.

But put your hopes on Trump, what a terrible alternative. It’s only beaten by “Putin will help us!” Pathetic

Btw

https://www.google.dk/amp/s/amp.theg...liticians-warn



Sadly the americans wont be “rescuing” you, even in the utopia scenario where Trump could ignore the congress, he wont be president long enough for the deal to finish..

Hang on. You appear to be saying that since the UK voted to leave the EU then it should accept any deal it is offered no matter how bad that deal is. Is that what you mean?

As for the Guardian article it appears that John Bolton does not seem to think that this would be an issue.

[Noradin]

Hang on. You appear to be saying that since the UK voted to leave the EU then it should accept any deal it is offered no matter how bad that deal is. Is that what you mean?

Just how did you read that from the post you quoted?
Is it written in code only you can see or what?

[Mayhem]

Just how did you read that from the post you quoted?
Is it written in code only you can see or what?

The ways of Pann are special.

[Crispin]

Hang on. You appear to be saying that since the UK voted to leave the EU then it should accept any deal it is offered no matter how bad that deal is. Is that what you mean?

As for the Guardian article it appears that John Bolton does not seem to think that this would be an issue.

No that's not what I meant.

It's John Bolton.

[Pann]

No that's not what I meant.

It's John Bolton.

So what do you mean? Because that is how your post came across.

And? You'll have to explain to me why this is important.

[Gibblewink]

UK voted to leave. UK sent negotiators to the EU to negotiate (shocking) a deal. Said deal was endorsed by the UK PM but failed to pass parliament.
That last bit is on the UK not the EU.

Since the UK voted to leave the EU, the EU does not have an obligation to deliver a deal that suits the UK. and certainly does not have any obligation to deliver a deal that is directly harmful to the EU or its member states.

Had the EU kicked the UK out (because we don't like smelly island people who beat us in wars) the EU could have been said to have moral obligation to find a working solution for the UK.

[Crispin]

That's how it came across for you.

What's John Boltons position? Did congress not say that deals is a no go if the border issue is not resolved?

edit: guess Gibblewink was kind enough to spell it out for you.

[Shalcker]

UK voted to leave. UK sent negotiators to the EU to negotiate (shocking) a deal. Said deal was endorsed by the UK PM but failed to pass parliament.
That last bit is on the UK not the EU.

Since the UK voted to leave the EU, the EU does not have an obligation to deliver a deal that suits the UK. and certainly does not have any obligation to deliver a deal that is directly harmful to the EU or its member states.

"No deal" is directly harmful to the EU and it's member states though.