The Brexit aftermath thread

[Mayhem]

My original quote:


Can they do that already? Yes, they can.

You're imagining continuation that doesn't have to be there.

They don't have to arrest him or even have him answer those questions to make some judgements - including possibly getting warrant later.

Which, of course, does absolutely nothing, so what an awesome solution you've presented.

So facial recognition is not a substitute for checking passports, thanks for participating, your contribution was as useless as always, at least this time you've provided links to refute yourself so you've saved everyone else a bit of time there. Can't wait for the next time you troll yourself.

[Fkiolaris]

That is factually incorrect. The banks were not in favour of it. The head of Goldman Sachs, probably the closest thing capitalism has to a king, went on TV for an hour ranting about what a bad idea it was (it probably lost leave the election). Many banks are running down their presence here. There's no objective truth for what you are saying.

Additionally, many Tories, including David Cameron and Teresa May, supported remain.

Whether Brexit is a good or bad thing is another issue: this however is just wrong. There is no alignment between the right and big capital and Brexit: if anything the reverse is true.

I am not sure you get the irony of the quote, especially the highlighted part. Just ask yourself, how many people voted for Remain based on the all these bankers' support and how many voted Leave? Ditto for Cameron, May, Brown and best of all, Tony Blair. Did they really not know about the impact of their support? That it would sent people running to vote Leave? Of course they did, otherwise none of them would be heading large multinational banks or be a PM.

[Jessicka]

That is factually incorrect. The banks were not in favour of it. The head of Goldman Sachs, probably the closest thing capitalism has to a king, went on TV for an hour ranting about what a bad idea it was (it probably lost leave the election). Many banks are running down their presence here. There's no objective truth for what you are saying.

Additionally, many Tories, including David Cameron and Teresa May, supported remain.

Whether Brexit is a good or bad thing is another issue: this however is just wrong. There is no alignment between the right and big capital and Brexit: if anything the reverse is true.

There absolutely is. From the hedge funds and foreign investors who have, and continue to make a vast sums of money from short selling, and buying up British capital due to the massive devaluation of the currency. Money is being sucked out of the country by those groups, who anticipated and indeed wanted all of this. Nevermind the ultimate objective of avoiding the incoming EU wide Tax regulation that serves to save them even more money.

There's a reason this is rooted in people like Farage and Banks; investors and hedge fund managers who operate through off-shore businesses and contribute significantly to the far right of the Tory party, and created UKIP and the Brexit Party to force the Tory party further to the right. There's good reason the hardest leave constituencies are on the super-wealthy Tory heartlands. And then you've got people leading it now like an actual Nazi into eugenics, who literally believes in the genetic superiority of rich people, Dominic Cummings.

Brexit has fuck all to do with Nissan workers in Sunderland. The biggest lie we're constantly told, is that it's their idea.

Sticking the least convincing advocates for remain out there was a fucking masterstroke.

[EmperorGrasu]

Brexit is such a mistake lol

[Iphie]

How fast can the UK have a new election btw?

I don't think it can be done anymore before the deadline at this point. Especially not if Johnson gets his way and the Parliament gets send home.

[Masark]

How fast can the UK have a new election btw?

In the event of a motion of non-confidence passing in the House, it would take a minimum of 39 days (14 from non-confidence to dissolution, then 25 of campaigning) from then to election day.

Not sure if there's any requirement on how long has to pass between the polling day and Parliament reconvening, but last time was 12 days.

Alternatively a snap election could be called (requires a 2/3rds majority of the House), which would skip the first 14 days.

[Jessicka]

Like I've been saying all along but was just told I was spreading "Project Fear" and I've known this for months as drugs were already becoming more and more needed.



The medical institute have tried to keep it under wraps as much as possible as they didn't want to cause mass panics, I remember we were getting daily emails telling us to deny to say anything to the press should they come asking questions.

Medicine is getting all the priority on basically everything in the scientific sector. Some of the lead times and consequent delays I’m seeing in my branch of science are not something I’m remotely used to.

What you won’t here are that there are clear knock on effects to this.

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First, speculators and hedge funds take adversarial positions almost by definition. For a speculator to profit from a currency movement someone else has to lose money. So, yeah some speculators are doing very well out of Brexit. Others are not. It is the same with every political decision, there's no conspiracy there. I personally made a lot of money out of Brexit because my income is mostly in dollars-that's not because I support Brexit (I don't) or even because I positioned myself adroitly-it is just because i was lazy about converting it into sterling.

I am guessing you have not done much speculation. It is not easy to rig even a small market or profit from inside information. Markets are very unpredictable. Brexit is something that happened very much against the expectations of everybody-including most of its backers.

If money were the determining factor here we surely would have seen donations to the Tories increase: in fact they fell by a third in 2019. Some of that went to the Brexit party but even if you factor that in the finances of the right are in worse shape than before.

I’ve not done any speculation; but it’s very clear from its leadership that it’s no conspiracy because it’s all in the open now. At this point they’re just consolidating their position.

Again, I don’t understand why anyone thinks it’s anything other than what it is. Banks, Farage, Rees-Mogg, Johnson and Co. aren’t doing this for the good of the working class.

[Draco-Onis]

Insulin being one of the most common ones.

I think you have the same problem we have here some people have checked out of reality even Johnson's government is bracing for things to get much worse.

[Slant]

Insulin being one of the most common ones.

Radioactive isotopes. They don't last more than days.

[Jessicka]

And I think the crucial part is that there are just some drugs that you cannot stockpile. They just don't last long enough.

It's not just medicines. It's parts and maintenance for diagnostic machinery, it's consumables for lab testing. Some of this can be stockpiled I guess, but a lot of it is basically bespoke because it's so niche, it costs tens to hundreds of thousands of pounds, and no one has anywhere to store it.

[mojojojo202]

The working class certainly has legitimate grievances with the current way the world works, especially in strongly capitalist countries. I'd say the middle class does as well, and their betrayal is far more extensive by the political class than that of the working class (since it was mostly middle-class supported political parties that did the betraying in the first place).
But I still don't see the link between Brexit and improved conditions for the working class and middle class. It's just nihilism; cut of my nose to spite my face. Any adverse effects felt by the investor class will be transfered to the middle class (who will then be allowed to squeeze some margin out of the working class just to be appeased) just as they have in the past and taking a course of action that requires you to align with the conservative right only helps guarantee that this will happen. I still feel that much of the Brexit base, like much of the Trump base, is just people who want to watch the world burn without any real hopes for building something after.

Here is the reason why I have always thought Brexit was a bunch of bollocks, because it is as good as irrelevant to the working classes.

The dominant socio-economic direction of the UK isn't changing. The material circumstances that have created grievances aren't going to change. Working people will continue to be screwed by their 'betters'. Brexit or not, that isn't going to change.

[Muzjhath]

Here is the reason why I have always thought Brexit was a bunch of bollocks, because it is as good as irrelevant to the working classes.

The dominant socio-economic direction of the UK isn't changing. The material circumstances that have created grievances aren't going to change. Working people will continue to be screwed by their 'betters'. Brexit or not, that isn't going to change.

Well, it doesn't help that for most of the EU's life (and the predesesor organisations that morphed into the EU). The Unions and the workers organisations opposed it. They saw it as a tool to oppress them. Instead of embracing it to implement laws to protect the workers everywhere in Europe. A thing that's started to change the last two decades or so. But for the majority of the EU worker organizations were against it. When the politically smart move would have been co-opting it.
But lots of working class people, more so in England/the UK than in other places in Europe, got spoonfed "EU = BAD FOR WORKERS!" and keep hugging that. Which is where I believe a lot of left spectrum anti EU comes from in the UK.
Which then people who will profit from it used. (And some crazies like Corbyn sprouted impossible dreams about).

[Draco-Onis]

I'm just getting tired of it all and it makes me weep how people can just shrug off whats actually happening around them as a project fear.

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And many many more medications, there's already a warning out that we wont be able to do many flu vaccinations this year.

I think the saddest part is that acknowledging this reality could save lives sticking your head in the sand will not do anything although there isn't much you can do to prepare for everything that is to come.

[Pann]

It is being reported that No. 10 is hinting that a snap election will be announced soon. Corbyn told Sky's Kate McCann “Of course, we are the opposition party, we want a general election” (https://twitter.com/KateEMcCann/stat...75922095378432), so it looks like we'll going to the polls again.

However I cannot help but feel in terms of stopping Brexit this would be a mistake, the Tories are riding high in the polls and Johnson will frame a GE as the people versus parliament, galvanising leave support behind the Tories whilst remain continues to be split across several parties. Whilst FPTP makes it difficult to predict GE results based on voting intention polls, at present, I cannot foresee any other outcome than a Tory victory and possibly an overall majority.

I think Tony Blair sums up the situation quite well; "The Brexiteers are laying a trap, to seem as if pushed into an election whilst actively preparing for one"

[draykorinee]

Yeah, this will be democracy vs anti democracy as a selling point for the utterly ignorant and the utterly ignorant will win again because there's too many of them.

BJ is setting this up nicely, even his proroguing was all a game, he may be a buffoon but he not as stupid as he plays.

He's also against corbyn, as weak and ineffectual leader I haven't seen since... May.

I don't see a majority though, I just can't see it happening.

We're a laughing stock, a disaster, a joke and every other name you want to label the British. Embarrassing.

[Northern Goblin]

Honestly, I can see Johnson getting a majority to then be able to get the kind of deal he wants from the EU, knowing that he has the numbers to push it through. The ERG will follow him because they want out of Europe and other Conservatives would vote for it because the alternative is no deal.

That's a stronger negotiation position than May had, though I'm not sure how he'll negotiate the backstop without giving up May's redlines (which ironically would make his Brexit weaker than her's) but he'll continue playing his lovable idiot character that the public eats up every.fucking.time.

Speaking of the public, I've still never seen the average joe on the street tell me how they believe Brexit will benefit them individually. Their reasons for leaving are purely "we voted out" but not what they expect to get from it.

[Jessicka]

Yeah, this will be democracy vs anti democracy as a selling point for the utterly ignorant and the utterly ignorant will win again because there's too many of them.

BJ is setting this up nicely, even his proroguing was all a game, he may be a buffoon but he not as stupid as he plays.

He's also against corbyn, as weak and ineffectual leader I haven't seen since... May.

I don't see a majority though, I just can't see it happening.

We're a laughing stock, a disaster, a joke and every other name you want to label the British. Embarrassing.

Corbyn and Momentum in particular did an amazing job campaigning last time around, everyone was expecting a landslide for May remember, she ended up losing the majority she did have. Boris might be Boris, but nobody likes Rees Mogg or Cummings or Gove.

The problem is, as ever, getting around the Tory press. We need chaos with Corbyn.

Honestly, I can see Johnson getting a majority to then be able to get the kind of deal he wants from the EU, knowing that he has the numbers to push it through. The ERG will follow him because they want out of Europe and other Conservatives would vote for it because the alternative is no deal.

That's a stronger negotiation position than May had, though I'm not sure how he'll negotiate the backstop without giving up May's redlines (which ironically would make his Brexit weaker than her's) but he'll continue playing his lovable idiot character that the public eats up every.fucking.time.

Speaking of the public, I've still never seen the average joe on the street tell me how they believe Brexit will benefit them individually. Their reasons for leaving are purely "we voted out" but not what they expect to get from it.

Boris's position in our Parliament is actually irrelevant when it comes to the EU deal and backstop. Our position is so hopelessly damaged, and the backstop, even Brexit's own experts could come up with no solutions that were remotely viable. They have nothing. Still. They never had anything, and that's becoming increasingly exposed.

The Conservatives now are pushing extremely far to the right, Gauke said as much and he should know, they're taking the Brexit party position, and that for a lot of people is absolutely untenable. Even their own MPs. If he's so divisive with his own party, he's only ever going to be moreso with the electorate.

[Mayhem]

Honestly, I can see Johnson getting a majority to then be able to get the kind of deal he wants from the EU, knowing that he has the numbers to push it through. The ERG will follow him because they want out of Europe and other Conservatives would vote for it because the alternative is no deal.

That's a stronger negotiation position than May had, though I'm not sure how he'll negotiate the backstop without giving up May's redlines (which ironically would make his Brexit weaker than her's) but he'll continue playing his lovable idiot character that the public eats up every.fucking.time.

Speaking of the public, I've still never seen the average joe on the street tell me how they believe Brexit will benefit them individually. Their reasons for leaving are purely "we voted out" but not what they expect to get from it.

And what deal would that be?

[Northern Goblin]

Boris's position in our Parliament is actually irrelevant when it comes to the EU deal and backstop.

Any leader who has an actual majority, and sizeable enough to say "I can get this deal through" with confidence, and has the parliamentary math to back it up, is of more use to the EU than May's "I'll try, I'll try again and if that fails.. I'll keep trying because I actually have no alternative plan than this."

The EU was wasting time with Theresa knowing full well that she couldn't deliver on what they'd agreed, it was a lesson in futility

And what deal would that be?

God only knows, probably cans the Irish backstop but also doesn't have May's redlines, so we end up in a Norway like scenario, or retain a customs union "BUT WE LEFT THE EUROPEAN UNION" he and his cronies will exclaim.

Even though it'll a watered down Brexit than the version he constantly voted against in Parliament.

[Pann]

Just when remain MPs need to take decisive action they decide once again to kick the can down the road!

https://twitter.com/bbclaurak/status...23196875857921