And? No-one is denying that it was the UK's choice.
The UK has come up with a solution it is now up to the EU to decide whether or not this is acceptable to them or if not whether there are ways to make it acceptable. If no way can be found then the UK and EU must ensure that Ireland suffers minimal disruption and that all efforts are made to preserve the peace.
Some official: If you do X, obviously Y will happen.
Propaganda press: The EU threatens with Y.
dribbs: it's habbening
flops: the EU must fix this, for it is their fault
this thread: this is idiocy
pann: how dare you blame us!?
nigel: >laments the state of affairs
slant: toldyouso
how many times have we gone through this cycle?.
13/11/2022 Sir Keir Starmer. "Brexit is safe in my hands, Let me be really clear about Brexit. There is no case for going back into the EU and no case for going into the single market or customs union. Freedom of movement is over"
Any version of Brexit put forward so far by the Tories does in fact break GFA. They've then cooked up some madmans brew that would only require the EU to break its core systems in oreder to fix a problem that is entirely the UKs making. The EU altering its stance might have had a tiny point of merit if it wasn't for the little detail that the UK can just bloody well fix their own mess and stay in the CU. We're not responsible for making good on the Leave campaigns insane promises.
This kind of strawman is getting really tedious! The EU and the UK have the power to broker a deal that keeps the GFA intact as it stands there are issues which both sides see as important that stand in the way. It may well be that these issues are insurmountable and other solutions need to be found.
I nor the UK are demanding that Eire leave the EU please take this bollocks elsewhere!
Actually I was thinking of Sweden who go to the polls in a couple of weeks with their election. You know that most liberal country everyone thinks of as so laid back almost laissez faire in their attitude to everything. I'm wondering if the EU will take any blame for their probable election result and whether a Swexit post election results in the next domino of the failing EU.
But that's drifting off topic...
13/11/2022 Sir Keir Starmer. "Brexit is safe in my hands, Let me be really clear about Brexit. There is no case for going back into the EU and no case for going into the single market or customs union. Freedom of movement is over"
That the current Brexit that is proposed is breaking the GFA. (Hard Brexit, if you can't follow)
So you agree that it is extortion? We're making great progress here.
I'm still not sure how you can view this as both sides are equally responsible but that's probably because I'm not much of a nationalist.
A hard Brexit is not being proposed, both sides are trying to avoid a hard Brexit. How can you post so much in a thread and know so little about what is going on?
No, I don't! This has to be act.
Well you seem to believe that I've agreed with your idiotic conclusion about extortion so that really does not come as a surprise.
The finger pointing originated in the UK, mind you. I do not see you starting to claim the EU is pointing fingers at the EU in response to the UK pointing fingers a valid argument or defense. We won't be having this blackmail, I hope. And in the end, the EU is more than happy to accomodate any solution that prevents a hard border. This is in fact a core issue the EU would like to resolve sensibly. That is the whole reason why you lot are even still in the negotiations instead of being frozen out for a lack of a proper negotiation position or a plan.
The EU did offer working solutions: Stay in the EU, accept the Norway model... any variation of those. The EU saw this problem as soon as the referendum happened, perhaps even earlier. They warned you about this. I myself have also pointed this out fairly early in the process. The general response was either "It's no problem" or "You fix it!" or, amusingly, "We'll get what we want, and we'll make you pay for it, too!"
You have summarized it correctly, the integrity of the EU border, protecting the interests of close to 200 million citizens, cannot be met if you want to keep GFA intact, protecting the interests of 1.2 million or so people in Northern Ireland and a bit shy of 5 million in RoI.
You tell me now which one the EU is going to adhere to. The EU won't redefine centuries of understanding on how nations and borders work just because the UK threw a tantrum. And that's what this is. An irrational, emotional and above all, unconsidered tantrum. continental Europe has not been affected by the Troubles. So, no... this isn't about European security. This is exclusively a British problem. And I support the EU if they decide to accept the hit and let the UK learn the hard way about consequences and rules.
There is no "solution" that the EU can work out. There just isn't. No, legal trickery and the UK claiming unicorns will solve this is not good enough. No, we do not trust the UK to do our customs for us. No, we do not trust them to be honest. That's not how nations work. A bullshit dream of "mechanisms" isn't going to solve this either. The time for lofty and vague obfuscation is over. We need practical solutions with detailed and practical guidelines on how the people at the border are supposed to actually handle the situation. Not "mechanisms" that May introduced, having no clue what those mechanisms are going to be.
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A lot of blabla and no new ideas.
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