The Brexit aftermath thread

[Elegiac]

By the end of tonight we’ll have the legislation to avoid no deal going through the system. It’s been literally 1 and a half days since Parliament came back. Stop panicking.

I'm glad that you're sufficiently insulated from the consequences of politics that you can afford to treat it as a team sport.

Btw, "stopping no deal" is as good as worthless without positive action because no deal is the default state come the deadline. And y'all are betting that the EU is going to give you yet another extension.

Times up. You screwed the pooch, and the rest of the world is already looking to a future where the UK is discounted. Your national health is now literally contingent on the decision of 27 foreign heads of government.

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Two months is not long at all with how far up shit creek without a paddle the UK is in regards to Brexit. Finding a way forward that isn't no deal is both imminent and urgent for you lot.

It's telling that the only people who seem to think the UK has the luxury of time are English. Or Russian bots.

[Northern Goblin]

Two months is not long at all with how far up shit creek without a paddle the UK is in regards to Brexit. Finding a way forward that isn't no deal is both imminent and urgent for you lot.

We've always had an alternative option. It's the nuclear option when all other avenues are exhausted. Again, chess not checkers.

[Elegiac]

Unless Parliament either passes May's godawful WA or withdraws Article 50 entirely, everything else is fundamentally meaningless. Those have been the options on the table for more than a year, and trying to bend yourselves into twists justifying the present state of affairs as some sort of parliamentary 4D chess won't alter the truth of it.

There is no time left for another referendum. The EU will not renegotiate the WA. The only thing the rest of us are waiting for is to see if the Brits finally accept that fact and eat their pride and "prestige", or crash out and go into another set of post-imperial breakups as Scotland and NI start to peel away.

[Jessicka]

Two months is not long at all with how far up shit creek without a paddle the UK is in regards to Brexit. Finding a way forward that isn't no deal is both imminent and urgent for you lot.

It will take around 3 days to get this through, that's just how the process works. Calm your tits. That goes for @Elegiac as well. The only person who can speed this up is Boris, but he won't. It would take even longer through the courts.

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Unless Parliament either passes May's godawful WA or withdraws Article 50 entirely, everything else is fundamentally meaningless. Those have been the options on the table for more than a year, and trying to bend yourselves into twists justifying the present state of affairs as some sort of parliamentary 4D chess won't alter the truth of it.

There is no time left for another referendum. The EU will not renegotiate the WA. The only thing the rest of us are waiting for is to see if the Brits finally accept that fact and eat their pride and "prestige", or crash out and go into another set of post-imperial breakups as Scotland and NI start to peel away.

The options only existed when they were brought to Parliament to be debated.

[Elegiac]

It will take around 3 days to get this through, that's just how the process works. Calm your tits. That goes for @Elegiac as well. The only person who can speed this up is Boris, but he won't. It would take even longer through the courts.

Again: "this", referring to Parliament's present attempt at a coup, is worthless.

Making No Deal illegal does fuck all when it becomes the internationally recognised default come the deadline.

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The options only existed when they were brought to Parliament to be debated.

Parliament isn't in charge of deciding when the UK is kicked out of the EU, however, short of withdrawing Article 50.

[Jessicka]

Again: "this", referring to Parliament's present attempt at a coup, is worthless.

Making No Deal illegal does fuck all when it becomes the internationally recognised default come the deadline.

Parliament isn't in charge of deciding when the UK is kicked out of the EU, however, short of withdrawing Article 50.

You've not read the text, which instructs the Government to request an extension. An extension the EU have actually shown to be willing to give.

Stop expecting everything to be done and sorted yesterday on the most nuclear option available. That's a really bad way to run a country.

[Elegiac]

Labour, at least Corbyn, are not part of the traditional political circus. He was only nominated by mistake and elected by activists very much against the wishes of parliamentarians who tried to remove him unsuccessfully on numerous occasions. That's why most people who hate him, hate him.

You know what they call one exception in a mostly uniform field?

An outlier.

Btw You are aware Elizabeth Warren didn't enter the last presidential race because Hilary Clinton pretended to offer her VP? I don't think much of your candidate's "smash the system" credentials.

Cool story, I don't see how that's relevant to the UK fucking itself up the ass and not in the fun way.

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You do know there are countries in Europe which do fine outside the EU?

Maybe they could do better inside, but to pretend the country has to collapse because it is not in the EU is absurd.

You do know that most other countries outside the EU haven't been intimately linked with them economically and politically for the past few decades and have so many aspects of their existence interlinked that separating them would cause irreparable damage?

We're not talking about "other countries", we're talking about the UK. Stay in your lane.

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You've not read the text, which instructs the Government to request an extension. An extension the EU have actually shown to be willing to give.

Thank you for admitting that whether or not the UK crashes out is actually contingent on the EU's decision and not whatever backwards legislative mechanism Westminster tries to employ to avoid the fallout of having to vote on withdrawing Article 50.

Stop expecting everything to be done and sorted yesterday on the most nuclear option available. That's a really bad way to run a country.

You lot put Brexit to a referendum that could be won by plurality.

Do not talk to anyone about how to run a country, unless the direction you're running it in is into the ground.

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Also: lol @ trying to chastise people for jumping the gun when the UK initiated Article 50 without building a consensus for the outcome first.

[Northern Goblin]

Again: "this", referring to Parliament's present attempt at a coup, is worthless.

Making No Deal illegal does fuck all when it becomes the internationally recognised default come the deadline.

But it forces the PM to seek an extension, whether they want to or not.

Should there come a time it isn't given, then it pushes forward the probability of legislation being brought in to repeat Article 50.

As is, that is the last resort. We haven't reached a point where that has to be the course of action because, again, our system will look to fully exhaust all other avenues first before utilising a nationally divisive option.

It amazes me how people are still surprised that the UK is a nation that remains patient and stays calm enough to not smash the panic button options when there are still avenues to pursue.

Keep calm and carry on chaps *sip tea*

[Elegiac]

It amazes me how people are still surprised that the UK is a nation that remains patient and stays calm enough to not smash the panic button options when there are still avenues to pursue.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-39143978

Nine months after the UK voted to get out of the European Union in a referendum, Prime Minister Theresa May activated the official mechanism that will make it a reality - Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty.

On Tuesday night, she signed a letter triggering the process, which was handed over to the European Council's president Donald Tusk at around 12:20 BST.

This was followed by a statement from Mrs May to the House of Commons, where she said now was "the moment for the country to come together".

Sure Jan.

What's more amusing is the Brits here who think that this ends even if Article 50 is withdrawn. What guarantee has any country that the UK isn't simply going to devolve into another mess in another ten years? What reputation do you think you have left to salvage?

[zealo]

It is dangerously naive to assume the EU is guaranteed to grant another extension just because you got a previous six months one, when the UK has largely wasted that additional time it got so far. What reason does the UK have for why they should get another one other than just kicking the can down the road a bit?

It only takes one country out of 27 EU states to veto it in the council for that request to get denied.

[Elegiac]

It is dangerously naive to assume the EU is guaranteed to grant another extension just because you got a previous six months one, when the UK has largely wasted that additional time it got so far. What reason does the UK have for why they should get another one other than just kicking the can down the road a bit?

It only takes one country out of 27th EU states to veto it in the council for that request to get denied.

Some people are operating under the assumption that the British Empire is still a thing and that the US isn't going to hang Britain out to dry the moment we get a competent Secretary of State, but hey. They voted to leave the EU so they could put their nation's future in the hands of people they never elected.

Prestige of being the mother of democracy and all that nonsense I guess.

[Northern Goblin]

Stay in your lane.

You lot put Brexit to a referendum that could be won by plurality.

Because that's how membership in the EU is done here, it had firm precedence in the '75 referendum and to do otherwise would have been improper.

Do not talk to anyone about how to run a country, unless the direction you're running it in is into the ground.

How's your plan of lobbing stones from a glass house going over there?

Also: lol @ trying to chastise people for jumping the gun when the UK initiated Article 50 without building a consensus for the outcome first.

You mean the A50 that the EU wouldn't enter negotiations without it being triggered? Yeah, kinda hard to build a consensus on an outcome you can't begin to negotiate for.

[Elegiac]

How's your plan of lobbing stones from a glass house going over there?

Better. Our national nightmare has a set expiration date, yours doesn't.

Funny how actually electing your head of state works, huh?

[Dizzeeyooo]

You mean the A50 that the EU wouldn't enter negotiations without it being triggered? Yeah, kinda hard to build a consensus on an outcome you can't begin to negotiate for.

I normally broadly agree with you, but this is complete rubbish. If May had laid out her red lines initially before asking for permission to trigger article 50 then things right now would look very different - for a start, parliament would not have blindly given her that permission.

[Elegiac]

I normally broadly agree with you, but this is complete rubbish. If May had laid out her red lines before asking for permission to trigger article 50 then things right now would look very different.

Shh, you're interrupting the narrative of Britain's conduct before and during this process being totally not batshit.

[Jessicka]

It is dangerously naive to assume the EU is guaranteed to grant another extension just because you got a previous six months one, when the UK has largely wasted that additional time it got so far. What reason does the UK have for why they should get another one other than just kicking the can down the road a bit?

It only takes one country out of 27 EU states to veto it in the council for that request to get denied.

They will. Because Ireland. Because Good Friday Agreement.

That is actually a card that this time works in our favour.

I still find it absurd though that there are people here simultaneously arguing the Opposition should do everything it can to prevent no deal, at the same time as agreeing to a General Election and closing Parliament in a process that would ensure it.

[Northern Goblin]

Better. Our national nightmare has a set expiration date, yours doesn't.

Funny how actually electing your head of state works, huh?

Because that's really the only problem you have over there.

[Elegiac]

They will. Because Ireland. Because Good Friday Agreement.

One could have also said this about the UK running the risk of crashing out without a deal.

It's almost as if state actors aren't entirely rational and all it's going to take is one head of state doing the selfish thing to completely fuck you over.

I still find it absurd though that there are people here simultaneously arguing the Opposition should do everything it can to prevent no deal, at the same time as agreeing to a General Election and closing Parliament in a process that would ensure it.

Nobody here is castigating Labour for not agreeing to a GE.

We're pointing out that its reasons for doing so are spurious and not actually motivated by any sense of national interest. Again, there's exactly one group of people in Westminster that seem to get it, and none of them are English.

[Northern Goblin]

I normally broadly agree with you, but this is complete rubbish. If May had laid out her red lines initially before asking for permission to trigger article 50 then things right now would look very different - for a start, parliament would not have blindly given her that permission.

That's the problem of Theresa May, she wouldn't change her negotiation stance, even when Parliament rejected it and told her otherwise.

Their job was to scrutinise the deal, they did, they told her what they didn't like, she ignored them.

That's the fault of the individual, not the system.

[Elegiac]

Because that's really the only problem you have over there.

Hardly, but it's one of the more urgent and existential ones. If this were the UK and you had Trump with as facile a parliament as he did Congress, you might as well rename BXP to Norsefire.

That you're having to basically pin your entire political hopes on European goodwill because there is no systemic recourse to such an outcome is telling.