The Brexit aftermath thread

[Draco-Onis]

I would love a decent Tory party to lead the UK. But currently we don't have the option of one.

My choice for leader of a Labour UK government, you might be surprised, is someone who voted to remain in the EU at the Brexit referendum. Like most thinking remainers across the political parties since then he has seen the benefits of Brexit, come to his senses and repented. There is no changing the minds of the hardened ever dwindling in numbers democracy denying British eurofanatics, you can see that on this forum.

Here is what the future Labour leader IMHO said just a few weeks ago...

Remainers with lingering hopes of a return to the bloc needed a reality check.

"I think people need to move on," he said.
"I say that with the greatest respect for people I have campaigned alongside over the years, but Britain isn't going back into the EU.

Wes Streeting - Dec 2022.

He is the Labour man the Tories should fear most, not his time yet but soon will be.

I don't understand why are UK politicians still under the delusion that EU would want them back. The complete and utter joke that the UK has made of itself over the last few years has reversed every EU skeptics mind about leaving. There's very little to no chance another country will want to follow that path, the UK will haunt the minds of any leader that thinks of leaving the EU for all eternity.

You guys are the gift that keep on giving.

[LeGin v3]

I don't understand why are UK politicians still under the delusion that EU would want them back.

There aren’t any. That’s Dribbles’ point.

I don’t know which colleagues Wes Streeting is referring to.

Labour’s front bench, including previously vocal Remainers like Lammy, are tied to Starmer’s 6/7 yr plan, which basically means trying to ignore the issue and not “offend” the red, turned blue, turning red again wall who they need to win the next election.

That’s why Dribbles is crowing…

Doesn’t mean they’re not all wrong, though. Which is the point of this thread. Triple negatives ftw.

[dribbles]

I'm curious indulge me, how, when and what does the re-join process look like. There are one or two here that seem to pretend and peddle the misinformation that the UK re-joining the EU is imminent. Well let's be optimistic on timescales and see...

First there would have to be a party going into a GE seeking a mandate to hold a re-join referendum, not happening for the one next year so the earliest that could take place due to the 5 year UK electoral cycle would be the 2030 ish General Election putting the date of that referendum around 10 years from now. With no current Brexit campaign running, what's the point we've left the EU, the siblings of the great Farage would swing into action raising these difficult questions.

1. Compulsory UK adoption of the Euro.
2. Acceptance of free movement and Schengen.
3. Assimilation and control of the British armed forces by the EU army headquartered in Berlin.
4. No rebate.
5. Can a member of the CPTPP also be a nation inside the EU, is that compatible.
6. Do the EU even want us.

Assuming in the highly unlikely event of all those ducks falling in a row for re-joiners and they win the referendum, would 52-48 in favour be enough to re-join? so begins the EU accession process. That's not a quick thing, the EU quite rightly says it is not a bus that you can easily get on and off whenever you like, Turkey after almost 40 years are still going through it. We are now looking at the year 2075, possibly the next century, and the UK still won't be back inside the EU.

It's quite comforting to me that in half a century from now it is unlikely in my view we will be back inside the EU, and Æthelstan who repelled the European foreign invaders over a millennia ago can still rest easy thanks to Brexit with his legacy intact.

All we need now is the handful of frankly irrelevant remainers left, would be re-joiners, to stop whining accept and embrace the new reality that applies to them for today, tomorrow and forever.

[LeGin v3]

There are one or two here that seem to pretend and peddle the misinformation that the UK re-joining the EU is imminent

Who's said that lol?

But, as you ask:

1. Compulsory UK adoption of the Euro.
2. Acceptance of free movement and Schengen.
3. Assimilation and control of the British armed forces by the EU army headquartered in Berlin.
4. No rebate.
5. Can a member of the CPTPP also be a nation inside the EU, is that compatible.
6. Do the EU even want us.

1. Fine
2. Fine
3. Fine
4. Fine
5. -
6. edit... misread. yep, probably not

[Huehuecoyotl]

I'm curious indulge me, how, when and what does the re-join process look like. There are one or two here that seem to pretend and peddle the misinformation that the UK re-joining the EU is imminent. Well let's be optimistic on timescales and see...

First there would have to be a party going into a GE seeking a mandate to hold a re-join referendum, not happening for the one next year so the earliest that could take place due to the 5 year UK electoral cycle would be the 2030 ish General Election putting the date of that referendum around 10 years from now. With no current Brexit campaign running, what's the point we've left the EU, the siblings of the great Farage would swing into action raising these difficult questions.

1. Compulsory UK adoption of the Euro.
2. Acceptance of free movement and Schengen.
3. Assimilation and control of the British armed forces by the EU army headquartered in Berlin.
4. No rebate.
5. Can a member of the CPTPP also be a nation inside the EU, is that compatible.
6. Do the EU even want us.

Assuming in the highly unlikely event of all those ducks falling in a row for re-joiners and they win the referendum, would 52-48 in favour be enough to re-join? so begins the EU accession process. That's not a quick thing, the EU quite rightly says it is not a bus that you can easily get on and off whenever you like, Turkey after almost 40 years are still going through it. We are now looking at the year 2075, possibly the next century, and the UK still won't be back inside the EU.

It's quite comforting to me that in half a century from now it is unlikely in my view we will be back inside the EU, and Æthelstan who repelled the European foreign invaders over a millennia ago can still rest easy thanks to Brexit with his legacy intact.

All we need now is the handful of frankly irrelevant remainers left, would be re-joiners, to stop whining accept and embrace the new reality that applies to them for today, tomorrow and forever.

You are right. Rejoining is going to be incredibly difficult to do, and if we do it, it's going to be on worse terms than we had when we were members.

But surely the brilliant Brexiteers planned for that? Surely they had a plan for how they would reverse Brexit if it proved to be incredibly damaging to the UK? They wouldn't just demand we leave, and not have an idea of how to undo it if it turned out badly, would they?

Who am I kidding. They didn't even have a plan for how to implement Brexit, much less a plan for how to undo it. Because Brexiteers are great at one thing; complaining about how the EU have messed everything up. They are completely fucking useless at suggesting how to fix any problems, including the multitude of problems that Brexit has caused.

Thanks for pointing out yet another way that the incompetence and rank stupidity of Brexiteers has made a mess out of the UK. I hadn't actually realised that.

[Muzjhath]

I'm curious indulge me, how, when and what does the re-join process look like. There are one or two here that seem to pretend and peddle the misinformation that the UK re-joining the EU is imminent. Well let's be optimistic on timescales and see...

First there would have to be a party going into a GE seeking a mandate to hold a re-join referendum, not happening for the one next year so the earliest that could take place due to the 5 year UK electoral cycle would be the 2030 ish General Election putting the date of that referendum around 10 years from now. With no current Brexit campaign running, what's the point we've left the EU, the siblings of the great Farage would swing into action raising these difficult questions.

1. Compulsory UK adoption of the Euro.
2. Acceptance of free movement and Schengen.
3. Assimilation and control of the British armed forces by the EU army headquartered in Berlin.
4. No rebate.
5. Can a member of the CPTPP also be a nation inside the EU, is that compatible.
6. Do the EU even want us.

Assuming in the highly unlikely event of all those ducks falling in a row for re-joiners and they win the referendum, would 52-48 in favour be enough to re-join? so begins the EU accession process. That's not a quick thing, the EU quite rightly says it is not a bus that you can easily get on and off whenever you like, Turkey after almost 40 years are still going through it. We are now looking at the year 2075, possibly the next century, and the UK still won't be back inside the EU.

It's quite comforting to me that in half a century from now it is unlikely in my view we will be back inside the EU, and Æthelstan who repelled the European foreign invaders over a millennia ago can still rest easy thanks to Brexit with his legacy intact.

All we need now is the handful of frankly irrelevant remainers left, would be re-joiners, to stop whining accept and embrace the new reality that applies to them for today, tomorrow and forever.

3 is a fallacy. There is no such EU army headquartered in Berlin.

However the Netherlands and Germany have jointly choosen to have a closer co-operation for cost saving reasons and joint resource pooling. Which is an entirely different thing.

[Huehuecoyotl]

I will just have to go through driibbles "points". Just for the lolz. I can spare 5 minutes and 2% of my brain capacity to shredding his pathetic attempts to justify the stupidity of Brexit.

1. Compulsory UK adoption of the Euro.

You do understand there are EU countries that DON'T use the Euro? Of course you don't, what am I saying. That would be subject to negotiation during the rejoining process.

2. Acceptance of free movement and Schengen.

Oh no, we'll regain those things we lost because of Brexit. No more queueing at Dover. Whatever will we do /s

3. Assimilation and control of the British armed forces by the EU army headquartered in Berlin.

Bullshit and you know it. Could easily qualify as nation bashing, I believe. Looking for another infraction so soon?

4. No rebate.

Yes, we'll probably lose that. Another fallout of the stupidity of Brexit. But then according to that bus you were so proud of, that rebate never existed in the first place. So why are Brexiteers worried about it now?

5. Can a member of the CPTPP also be a nation inside the EU, is that compatible.

Oh no, we might have to give up our *checks notes* 0.08% of GDP by 2035 to rejoin. And all we'd get back is the *checks notes again* 5% of GDP that Brexit cost us. Oh, and we might have to reinstate the higher consumer standards that we're going to lose by joining the CPTPP. What will we do without shitty food imports screwing over our farmers and poisoning us?

6. Do the EU even want us.

They want those of us who aren't rampart fucking idiots like the Brexiteers are. Maybe we could put you all on an island and let you stay outside the EU, then everyone will be happy. I reckon by the time we're going back in one of the small islands off the coast of Scotland would be large enough for the small number of people left still claiming Brexit was a good idea.

[Temp name]

You do understand there are EU countries that DON'T use the Euro? Of course you don't, what am I saying. That would be subject to negotiation during the rejoining process.

Isn't mandatory adoption of the Euro just a thing now, at least when you hit the targets for it, with no more fudging allowed after Sweden successfully managed to dodge it?

Do enlighten me if I'm wrong, I'm just going based on half-remembered facts.

[Santti]

Denmark aren't using the EURO either, there may be a rule that new members adopt it though - frankly I don't think it's a big deal either way.

Yeah. It didn't take long at all to adjust to the new currency.

In the end, it's just currency. No need to get overly attached to what it's called or what it looks like.

[Gorsameth]

3 is a fallacy. There is no such EU army headquartered in Berlin.

However the Netherlands and Germany have jointly choosen to have a closer co-operation for cost saving reasons and joint resource pooling. Which is an entirely different thing.

Some people seem to have trouble understanding that the Netherlands is a teeny-tiny country. Tank battalions need a lot of supporting infrastructure and that isn't economical to keep all of that for a small amount of tanks. The Netherlands doesn't have economy of scale to reduce costs.

So the choice is to have no tanks because of no infrastructure to support them or have some tanks by sharing the cost and infrastructure with a neighbouring ally.

"But what if you go to war with Germany?". The 18! tanks the Netherlands are borrowing from Germany really are not going to make any difference in the outcome.

[Nymrohd]

You do understand there are EU countries that DON'T use the Euro? Of course you don't, what am I saying. That would be subject to negotiation during the rejoining process.

This isn't really true. The countries that do not use the Euro can do so because a specific provision was made for them at Maastricht Treaty in 1992. Any new entries are required to use the Euro. Legally you would need to amend the original treaty for it to be otherwise.

[dribbles]

3 is a fallacy. There is no such EU army headquartered in Berlin.

However the Netherlands and Germany have jointly choosen to have a closer co-operation for cost saving reasons and joint resource pooling. Which is an entirely different thing.

It is not an equal partnership, the German armed forces are four times the size of the Netherlands, as is the expenditure. No one can pretend that the levers of power for this "joint" co-operative force lie in Amsterdam rather than Berlin.

Some people seem to have trouble understanding that the Netherlands is a teeny-tiny country. Tank battalions need a lot of supporting infrastructure and that isn't economical to keep all of that for a small amount of tanks. The Netherlands doesn't have economy of scale to reduce costs.

So the choice is to have no tanks because of no infrastructure to support them or have some tanks by sharing the cost and infrastructure with a neighbouring ally.

"But what if you go to war with Germany?". The 18! tanks the Netherlands are borrowing from Germany really are not going to make any difference in the outcome.

The Netherlands is one of the biggest (and richest) EU countries, by population only 6 are larger. Doesn't the same argument make the case that the 20 of 27 even smaller EU countries do the same and have their forces absorbed by Germany as have the Dutch very recently?

Only UK re-joiners can misinform that this is not the beginnings of an EU army as Brexiteers warned truthfully of, against remainer false denials, back at referendum time. 10 years from now will any EU nation have a truly independent military force?

It will certainly be a factor in any, far in the future, hypothetical UK re-join referendum.

[Iliena]

The pearl clutching by Dribbling is oh so sweet!

Surely if Brexit is a great as he says it is? The trivialities he listed above (apart from no 6) wouldn't even be worth considering, never mind making a list at this stage!

[Kallisto]

I'm curious indulge me, how, when and what does the re-join process look like. There are one or two here that seem to pretend and peddle the misinformation that the UK re-joining the EU is imminent. Well let's be optimistic on timescales and see...

First there would have to be a party going into a GE seeking a mandate to hold a re-join referendum, not happening for the one next year so the earliest that could take place due to the 5 year UK electoral cycle would be the 2030 ish General Election putting the date of that referendum around 10 years from now. With no current Brexit campaign running, what's the point we've left the EU, the siblings of the great Farage would swing into action raising these difficult questions.

1. Compulsory UK adoption of the Euro.
2. Acceptance of free movement and Schengen.
3. Assimilation and control of the British armed forces by the EU army headquartered in Berlin.
4. No rebate.
5. Can a member of the CPTPP also be a nation inside the EU, is that compatible.
6. Do the EU even want us.

Assuming in the highly unlikely event of all those ducks falling in a row for re-joiners and they win the referendum, would 52-48 in favour be enough to re-join? so begins the EU accession process. That's not a quick thing, the EU quite rightly says it is not a bus that you can easily get on and off whenever you like, Turkey after almost 40 years are still going through it. We are now looking at the year 2075, possibly the next century, and the UK still won't be back inside the EU.

It's quite comforting to me that in half a century from now it is unlikely in my view we will be back inside the EU, and Æthelstan who repelled the European foreign invaders over a millennia ago can still rest easy thanks to Brexit with his legacy intact.

All we need now is the handful of frankly irrelevant remainers left, would be re-joiners, to stop whining accept and embrace the new reality that applies to them for today, tomorrow and forever.

1) Fine
2) Great
3) Is the EU army even a thing. Doesn't look like it and if it is Fine.
4) Fine that shit was because we were so fucking poor as a country in the 70s and 80s we needed the EU to bail us out.
5) Who cares, the EU is a bigger market who we do more trade with due to geography and will always have more sway.
6) Maybe, maybe not.

Also if in the future it does become a federal United states of Europe. All the better, the world needs fewer (Or better yet no) nations and more free movement of everyone

- - - Updated - - -

They want those of us who aren't rampart fucking idiots like the Brexiteers are. Maybe we could put you all on an island and let you stay outside the EU, then everyone will be happy. I reckon by the time we're going back in one of the small islands off the coast of Scotland would be large enough for the small number of people left still claiming Brexit was a good idea.

If they're so insistent on being outside the EU let's not give them a Scottish Island. Give them South Georgia since it is far enough away that they won't have to even think about Europe at all.

[Twdft]

It is not an equal partnership, the German armed forces are four times the size of the Netherlands, as is the expenditure. No one can pretend that the levers of power for this "joint" co-operative force lie in Amsterdam rather than Berlin.

You don't have any friends, now do you? The thought that two partners treat each other as equals even if one is smaller is simply alien to you.

[LeGin v3]

You don't have any friends, now do you? The thought that two partners treat each other as equals even if one is smaller is simply alien to you.

Yes. And this gets to the heart of it.

Little Englanders in their shitty little castles with their shitty little moats. Missing the bigger picture.

Æthelstan. Lol. If a mod ever needed any further proof that Dribbles is a troll, look no further than the poster’s reference to Æthelstan.

The problem is that there are Dribblers here who are sincere in their beliefs. I think you just have to take heart that younger generations are not as blinkered.

[Masark]

This isn't really true. The countries that do not use the Euro can do so because a specific provision was made for them at Maastricht Treaty in 1992. Any new entries are required to use the Euro. Legally you would need to amend the original treaty for it to be otherwise.

Though they can always pull a Sweden and deliberately not meet the eurozone criteria.

[Mayhem]

Though they can always pull a Sweden and deliberately not meet the eurozone criteria.

That might make it hard for them to join then.

[Kiria]

I'm curious indulge me, how, when and what does the re-join process look like. There are one or two here that seem to pretend and peddle the misinformation that the UK re-joining the EU is imminent. Well let's be optimistic on timescales and see...

First there would have to be a party going into a GE seeking a mandate to hold a re-join referendum, not happening for the one next year so the earliest that could take place due to the 5 year UK electoral cycle would be the 2030 ish General Election putting the date of that referendum around 10 years from now. With no current Brexit campaign running, what's the point we've left the EU, the siblings of the great Farage would swing into action raising these difficult questions.

1. Compulsory UK adoption of the Euro.
2. Acceptance of free movement and Schengen.
3. Assimilation and control of the British armed forces by the EU army headquartered in Berlin.
4. No rebate.
5. Can a member of the CPTPP also be a nation inside the EU, is that compatible.
6. Do the EU even want us.

Assuming in the highly unlikely event of all those ducks falling in a row for re-joiners and they win the referendum, would 52-48 in favour be enough to re-join? so begins the EU accession process. That's not a quick thing, the EU quite rightly says it is not a bus that you can easily get on and off whenever you like, Turkey after almost 40 years are still going through it. We are now looking at the year 2075, possibly the next century, and the UK still won't be back inside the EU.

It's quite comforting to me that in half a century from now it is unlikely in my view we will be back inside the EU, and Æthelstan who repelled the European foreign invaders over a millennia ago can still rest easy thanks to Brexit with his legacy intact.

All we need now is the handful of frankly irrelevant remainers left, would be re-joiners, to stop whining accept and embrace the new reality that applies to them for today, tomorrow and forever.

Oh fun, let's take 2 seconds to answer these non issues;

1. I'm fine with the Euro, who cares as long as it works.

2. Freedom of movement is a wonderful thing, it means I can go to Europe easily and without all the hassle we currently have, totes down for this.

3. This is Brexidiot fallacy and shows you've bought into the crappy lies like a gullible fool.

4. Where's that £350m right now? oh yeah it doesnt exist so thats a non issue.

5. The CPTPP deal is not even worth the paper it's written on.

6. Sadly probably not due to the little englanders like you.

[Flarelaine]

Æthelstan who repelled the European foreign invaders over a millennia ago can still rest easy thanks to Brexit with his legacy intact.

If Æthelstan's rest is reliant on repelling invaders, then he spent the last millennium rather restless as his line was ousted that long ago. Since his reign, Britain was successfully invaded in 1013, 1066, 1215, 1399, 1470, 1485 and 1688.