The Brexit aftermath thread

[Kronik85]

What? You think saddling our children (I mean won't somebody think of them!) with increasing interest repayments is the answer to anything? So your answer to the housing crisis is taxing people more in order to devalue their homes? That'll work and be really popular! Brilliant!

There were 2 options in there. Both are better than your hand waving.

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/tgm/tab...na225&plugin=1

We still have a better ratio than France, which is now stronger than us economically, the USA is at 105%. Maybe there is some wiggle room in there, it's difficult to fully cost an idea in 5 minutes. Looking at the table it's pretty clear that GDP to National Debt isn't the only metric in what makes a country thrive.

Estonia is at 9% is it an economic powerhouse people are flocking to? Southern Europe has much higher GDP to Debt ratios but I'm also not advocating that we should be using them as a model. It looks like a complicated issue.

[Pann]

There were 2 options in there. Both are better than your hand waving.

http://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/tgm/tab...na225&plugin=1

We still have a better ratio than France, which is now stronger than us economically. Maybe there is some wiggle room in there, it's difficult to fully cost an idea in 5 minutes.

I am not hand waving anything. I simply pointed out that there are already systems and policies, that you appear to know nothing of, in place that are designed to help manage the problem. Whether they go far enough in another matter.

It should not take even 5 minutes to work out that if you tax people more, the less they have to spend on their own housing and other needs. If you suddenly start building houses and selling them at a little over cost you will devalue existing houses pushing many people in to negative equity (we should all know how that worked out the last time). Quite frankly your ideas are so bad that pretending the problem does not exist would indeed be better.

[Kronik85]

I am not hand waving anything. I simply pointed out that there are already systems and policies, that you appear to know nothing of, in place that are designed to help manage the problem. Whether they go far enough in another matter.

I am aware of them, I'm saying they don't go far enough. Read my posts thoroughly and you will stop making this mistake.

It should not take even 5 minutes to work out that if you tax people more, the less they have to spend on their own housing and other needs. If you suddenly start building houses and selling them at a little over cost you will devalue existing houses pushing many people in to negative equity (we should all know how that worked out the last time). Quite frankly your ideas are so bad that pretending the problem does not exist would indeed be better.

So lets just continue the cycle bubbles and crashes, that's a good solution . We are at a junction with many bitter pills to swallow, our economy likely needs restructuring post Brexit if The City gets hit hard. Lets take the medicine now and be better for it in the long term.

[Deleted]

So on a scale of pretty bad to a Venezuela level of decay, how do you guys think this will play out for the UK?

[Pann]

I am aware of them, I'm saying they don't go far enough. Read my posts thoroughly and you will stop making this mistake.



So lets just continue the cycle bubbles and crashes, that's a good solution . We are at a junction with many bitter pills to swallow, our economy likely needs restructuring post Brexit if The City gets hit hard. Lets take the medicine now and be better for it in the long term.

I have read your posts and they are full of hyperbole, twitter style soundbites and very few facts.

You are trying to solve a problem in the housing market by creating the UK's very own version of the global financial crisis from 2008.

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So on a scale of pretty bad to a Venezuela level of decay, how do you guys think this will play out for the UK?

Oh, we will turn in to a kind of Mad Max dystopia but with worse weather! That's what you wanted to hear? Right?

[yetgdhfgh]

So on a scale of pretty bad to a Venezuela level of decay, how do you guys think this will play out for the UK?

Well we have the most trustworthy currency in the world behind the US dollar and we have a huge stockpile of gold.

We can lower our taxes so much that any tariff will be negligible plus we have a very trained workforce.

'The reports of our death are greatly exaggerated'

Plus we speak English and we are mostly White so its unlikely we are gonna go 3rd world anytime soon.


Also
Gold hidden in secret vaults beneath the Bank of England worth $248bn. A fifth of the world's gold is hidden under London, worth an estimated £172 billion ($248 billion). The vaults under the Bank of England on Threadneedle Street are said to hold 5,134 tonnes of gold.Apr 21, 2016

[Deleted]

So on a scale of pretty bad to a Venezuela level of decay, how do you guys think this will play out for the UK?

if its a hard brexit the uk is genuinely fucked, but chances are its the norway model so buisness as usual but alot of pissed of rightwing rubberheads.

[Kronik85]

I have read your posts and they are full of hyperbole, twitter style soundbites and very few facts.

Yet you continuously fail to grasp them.

You are trying to solve a problem in the housing market by creating the UK's very own version of the global financial crisis from 2008.

House prices need to come down, no avoiding that. The NHS needs more money, the government accepts that and we are going to be getting a health tax and polling indicates that people are willing to pay it.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...funding-survey

Maybe people will feel the same way when they realise their kids will never own a house. Even if the private sector did it then the prices would come down so it's not me that's being hyperbolic here. Looking at this article it looks like one major issue in the UK is that people don't realise they could build their own home and save money which seems to be a much more popular model in Europe.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14125196

Looking at the average house price I feel it's not a great statistic. My house in Blackpool is worth 115-120k, house in Stoke 130k, both 3 bedroom semi's with big gardens in nice areas. If the future of the economy is IT we don't need to be building in London and Cities when people could be working from home and using better rail links to make it into the office a few times a week.

Anywho off to work.

[Mayhem]

Voters can only vote for whoever puts themselves forward. If candidates all come from a pool of C listers, because the A list have entered business or law or any other field, the current UK government is what you end up with.

And how is that the EU's fault? What EU policy or guideline is responsible here?

Now answer me this is Austria in or out of the V4 yet? Will it be a good, powerful and strong national government that takes you in there with them? Or a weakened by the EU rudderless and limping one?

It's a government of rightwing assholes that is in for money and power. Wherever they see the most profit for them, not the country, they will go there. It's quite obvious with the implementation of a 12h workday proposed by the current government and the sheer number of broken promises already. This is all on the voters, as they believed the decievers once again and once again they got shafted by the right.

Are you saying Austrian national politics are in a better place than they were 20 years ago? I wager not, that's the EU fucking things up for you.

No, but that is not the EU's fault, as we had pretty good governments between those 20 years.

[Slant]

The signatories of that letter are 40 ish of Conservative MP's in the current serving government. You may call them loonies, they have the power and now the intent should they choose to finish the UK government if their red lines are crossed. Of course it is meant to fail, no deal is better than any deal. They and I want a no deal. Looks, like it always did, like I win.

If by winning you mean jumping off a cliff without a parachute while giggling madly and flipping everyone else on top of the cliff the bird... then yes, you are winning. :P

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Only if we sign the withdrawal agreement. So far there is no agreement and there will be no signature = no payment.

Nothing is a greed until everything is agreed.

Dribbles analysis part 2: Use a true, albeit simplistic, statement "so far there is no agreement", while ignoring the obvious... that while it's being negotiated, it can't already be there, and then add a fantasy of your own "there will be no agreement" without any argument, any basis in reality. Then follow up with a nonsequitur and pretend you've created a meaningful post.

Well done! Really... amazing! *claps*

[Pann]

Yet you continuously fail to grasp them.



House prices need to come down, no avoiding that. The NHS needs more money, the government accepts that and we are going to be getting a health tax and polling indicates that people are willing to pay it.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...funding-survey

Maybe people will feel the same way when they realise their kids will never own a house. Even if the private sector did it then the prices would come down so it's not me that's being hyperbolic here. Looking at this article it looks like one major issue in the UK is that people don't realise they could build their own home and save money which seems to be a much more popular model in Europe.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-14125196

Looking at the average house price I feel it's not a great statistic. My house in Blackpool is worth 115-120k, house in Stoke 130k, both 3 bedroom semi's with big gardens in nice areas. If the future of the economy is IT we don't need to be building in London and Cities when people could be working from home and using better rail links to make it into the office a few times a week.

Anywho off to work.

Who says house prices need to come down? I doubt home owners, the banks and lenders who they currently hold mortgages with or developers would agree.

Why would anyone feel the same about funding the NHS as your proposed schemes? The NHS is a benefit to all. Your proposals are not and would make many people's lives worse.

[Slant]

Well we have the most trustworthy currency in the world behind the US dollar and we have a huge stockpile of gold.

If trade is the measure, then that is a wrong statement.

[dribbles]

if its a hard brexit the uk is genuinely fucked, but chances are its the norway model so buisness as usual but alot of pissed of rightwing rubberheads.

Nope its definitely not Norway. This evening in the commons in reponse to that recent letter and reported in the guardian....

"May has ruled out keeping the UK in the EEA (European Economic Area) after Brexit, the so-called “Norway” option that would involve remaining in the single market. When the Tory Brexiter Sir Bill Cash asked her about “disturbing reports” that that was what she was planning, she replied:
In relation to the point that he makes about the EEA, I have been clear from the start that is one of the things that the European commission had suggested was on the table. The EEA is not right because the EEA - and particularly in the form that the European commission has proposed it - would not deliver on the vote of the referendum and the vote of the British people."

In fact she agreed with pretty much every red line in the letter. Hard to see how any deal can ever be done. Yippee that means a sweet no deal for us and no more billions to the EU.

[Deleted]

Nope its definitely not Norway. This evening in the commons in reponse to that recent letter and reported in the guardian....

"May has ruled out keeping the UK in the EEA (European Economic Area) after Brexit, the so-called “Norway” option that would involve remaining in the single market. When the Tory Brexiter Sir Bill Cash asked her about “disturbing reports” that that was what she was planning, she replied:
In relation to the point that he makes about the EEA, I have been clear from the start that is one of the things that the European commission had suggested was on the table. The EEA is not right because the EEA - and particularly in the form that the European commission has proposed it - would not deliver on the vote of the referendum and the vote of the British people."

In fact she agreed with pretty much every red line in the letter. Hard to see how any deal can ever be done. Yippee that means a sweet no deal for us and no more billions to the EU.

the government has spent 2 years and still doesn't know what it wants, infact it cant even describe what it wants. You expect these people to do anything but torpedo the country?

Leading brexiteers are all distancing themselves and privately advising companies to go abroad. Tanking the country so a few of them can make a buck on the market.

How will brexit make you personally better off?

[dribbles]

the government has spent 2 years and still doesn't know what it wants, infact it cant even describe what it wants. You expect these people to do anything but torpedo the country?

Leading brexiteers are all distancing themselves and privately advising companies to go abroad. Tanking the country so a few of them can make a buck on the market.

How will brexit make you personally better off?

Brexit will give me better funded NHS services as tax monies won't be going to the EU. Control of immigration will give me better access to doctors, schools and all public services as demand on them is dampened. Crucially, as you were moaning about house prices earlier, it will give you more chance of achieving ownership for the same reasons.

I can't think of any way in which I will be worse off. Can you?

[Pann]

Brexit will give me better funded NHS services as tax monies won't be going to the EU. [...]

I can't think of any way in which I will be worse off. Can you?

Really? http://costofbrexit.bitballoon.com/

[Deleted]

Brexit will give me better funded NHS services as tax monies won't be going to the EU. Control of immigration will give me better access to doctors, schools and all public services as demand on them is dampened. Crucially, as you were moaning about house prices earlier, it will give you more chance of achieving ownership for the same reasons.

I can't think of any way in which I will be worse off. Can you?

Brexit is already hammering the NHS.

Nurse numbers are falling as hard-working EU citizens believe the will be unwelcome after brexit.
The collapse of the pound lead to the health service’s bills for procurement of drugs and equipment ratcheted up
our pharmaceutical companies are already having to divert money that could have been spent on research into new treatments into preparing for Brexit
our membership of the the European Medicines Agency is in question and the HQ is going from london to amsterdam.

These things are all happening now, and we havent even left. Don't forget that a trade deal with the USA will lead to US healthcare giants buying up huge parts of the health service, as well as demanding that caps on pharmaceutical prices are lifted and that big pharma be allowed to market directly to citizens. Which we will have to concede as we go cap in hand begging for a deal.

The NHS will be a skeleton service by the time brexit rolls around. Looks like you will have to plant a new magic money tree.

There is literally no information from the Brexiteers about how 'control of immigration' will look after brexit.

You are right because most of my money is in US dollars so when sterling collapses i might be able to buy something in London.

So yea you seem to have it all backwards.

[Dhrizzle]

if its a hard brexit the uk is genuinely fucked, but chances are its the norway model so buisness as usual but alot of pissed of rightwing rubberheads.

A solution that no-one wants that will leave us all in a slightly worse position. Yay democracy!

[Huehuecoyotl]

The signatories of that letter are 40 ish of Conservative MP's in the current serving government. You may call them loonies, they have the power and now the intent should they choose to finish the UK government if their red lines are crossed. Of course it is meant to fail, no deal is better than any deal. They and I want a no deal. Looks, like it always did, like I win.

And for every one of those 40, there are 5 Tory MPs that would revolt if they tried to implement the wet dream of that hard Brexit crowd. And a shit-load of MPs of other parties that wouldn't go along with it. Which makes the position of these lunatics nothing more than impotent posturing. They can cause trouble, like the children they are, but they have no chance of getting what they want. And they know it. They are posing to impress the gullible and hard of thinking. Which apparently includes you.

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Brexit will give me better funded NHS services as tax monies won't be going to the EU. Control of immigration will give me better access to doctors, schools and all public services as demand on them is dampened. Crucially, as you were moaning about house prices earlier, it will give you more chance of achieving ownership for the same reasons.

I can't think of any way in which I will be worse off. Can you?

Every economic expert around has made it clear that Brexit is going to reduce the amount of money available, not increase it. The Brexit dividend is a lie. And you might have a little better access to the NHS, but there will be fuck all people left to work in it, because such a high proportion of them currently come from abroad. And if house prices collapse (rather than being properly managed to a more affordable level) we will be looking at another 2008. That isn't going to be good for anyone, even if house prices do fall.

The only part of that statement that was accurate in any sense was where you said:

I can't think

[Deleted]

Brexit will give me better funded NHS services as tax monies won't be going to the EU. Control of immigration will give me better access to doctors, schools and all public services as demand on them is dampened. Crucially, as you were moaning about house prices earlier, it will give you more chance of achieving ownership for the same reasons.

I can't think of any way in which I will be worse off. Can you?

Is this guy trolling or is he really that fucking stupid? I can't tell with these brexit people. They all sound like the sort of individual you normally find pushing carts with lobotomy scars, only those guys rarely lecture you on anything.

Is it really possible to be this ignorant of basic economics in a post-google world?

How do you communicate or persuade someone whose intellectual capacity is so limited they can't understand the actuality of a situation?