The Brexit aftermath thread

[Slant]

eh, UNCLOS article 26 stops this.



so unless UK wants to break international law that doesn't matter, the major point is that the irish trade is predominantly with UK, and they are now asking ireland to circumvent UK because 20% of their product would eventually go to mainland europe (and they don't want messy customs arrangements, makes sense from a non irish p.o.v).

really, ireland are getting fucked over more than anyone else as a result of Brexit, but ultimately this is the eu's fault for not negotiating in good faith. the eu are using ireland as a pinata to beat whenever the UK says x, y, z or crosses their red line(s).

also worth noting UNCLOS is kind of why i'm not worried about air travel post-Brexit. while UNCLOS doesn't apply to air at all, similar conventions are in place to make sure the correct certification and insurances are in place.

The EU is not negotiating in good faith? Oh, we knew you'd find a way to blame the EU for basically anything, but this is quite inventive. The UK has no red lines. That's the only constant in these negotiations about the UK position: It has none. Now that they finally got almost no confidenced, May and her team has put together a program that's basically trampling all over what the EU has said were its red lines even before negotiations began: The core principles of the EU.

And you say the EU is negotiating in bad faith? Why, because you once heard someone utter bad faith and thought that it sounded impressive? I don't think you even know what bad faith means. Ireland is not a Pinata, it's part of the EU. As such, Ireland's interests are the interests of the EU. Just like the EU core principles are of the utmost interest to Ireland. Break down the four freedoms and the EU is meaningless. Not just for Ireland, for everyone. But yes, also for Ireland.

The only ones talking in bad faith are you and Dribs, really.

[Slant]

That might be decided by Naval enforcement though don't you think? Much of a navy does the EU have?

The British navy isn't going to get involved in this. Not sure why you're talking about war again. Are you that desperate? Pathetic.

[Demolitia]

A little presumptuous of the EU if you ask me. We haven't decided yet if they will be allowed the use of British waters and how much they will have to pay for the guarantee of safe passage within them.

Safe passage from what? Angry Scottish fishermen and fierce Welsh pirates?

[dribbles]

The British navy isn't going to get involved in this. Not sure why you're talking about war again. Are you that desperate? Pathetic.

Are you sure? If the EU prevents the use of their skies by British planes, you can bet the UK will prevent the use of British waters by EU vessels.

[Slant]

Are you sure? If the EU prevents the use of their skies by British planes, you can bet the UK will prevent the use of British waters by EU vessels.

I think it was you that started with British skies nonsense. I mean, just because you're grasping at straws doesn't mean we have to. Pick a more relevant topic. Like... Northern Ireland. But you still got no solution for that, I reckon. Nobody from here is really keen on talking about where airplanes can go, they just responded to your nonsense.

[Floopa]

The EU is not negotiating in good faith? Oh, we knew you'd find a way to blame the EU for basically anything, but this is quite inventive. The UK has no red lines. That's the only constant in these negotiations about the UK position: It has none. Now that they finally got almost no confidenced, May and her team has put together a program that's basically trampling all over what the EU has said were its red lines even before negotiations began: The core principles of the EU.

And you say the EU is negotiating in bad faith? Why, because you once heard someone utter bad faith and thought that it sounded impressive? I don't think you even know what bad faith means. Ireland is not a Pinata, it's part of the EU. As such, Ireland's interests are the interests of the EU. Just like the EU core principles are of the utmost interest to Ireland. Break down the four freedoms and the EU is meaningless. Not just for Ireland, for everyone. But yes, also for Ireland.

The only ones talking in bad faith are you and Dribs, really.

i guess it's in the interests of irish trade to increase their export costs and limit their market...

how lovely and caring is the eu?

[Demolitia]

france loses money via eu subsidies and have to maintain those ports themselves - because they'll still receive traffic
ireland loses money because the planned route is more expensive than the current route

overland travel is cheaper, albeit worse for the environment, and faster

Oh it is somewhat bad news for Le Havre and Calais. It does not change the fact that the EC's position makes sense, and Macron will have precious little to complain about in this case. You can't blame the commission for deciding to funnel money on already existing major ports, instead of wasting money on the French ports which represent 5% of Rotterdam and Antwerp's capacity.
French ports won't be happy, but the proposal was adopted which means Macron's administration is certainly aware of it and fine with it.

[dribbles]

I think it was you that started with British skies nonsense. I mean, just because you're grasping at straws doesn't mean we have to. Pick a more relevant topic. Like... Northern Ireland. But you still got no solution for that, I reckon. Nobody from here is really keen on talking about where airplanes can go, they just responded to your nonsense.

Actually it was Little Leo the Irish/EU tadpole that started the threats about airspace... and you know our position on the Irish border = we will not have one but if the EU wants to break the GFA then let them stick up the watchtowers. We have always been clear from day 1, it is the EU that has no coherent position.

[Fuiking]

Actually it was Little Leo the Irish/EU tadpole that started the threats about airspace... and you know our position on the Irish border = we will not have one but if the EU wants to break the GFA then let them stick up the watchtowers. We have always been clear from day 1, it is the EU that has no coherent position.

That big region you pretend will be blocked for EU is abit wrong, its only 22nautical miles from the coast where an european ship can be blocked.

[dribbles]

That big region you pretend will be blocked for EU is abit wrong, its only 22nautical miles from the coast where an european ship can be blocked.

Pirates aren't really safe anywhere, EU pirates on the high seas will be fair game 20 or 200 miles out me hearties.

[Gibblewink]

For crying out loud: Varadkar didn't threaten anyone - he simply pointed out that if you stand outside when it is raining you will get wet.

As for Macron, he fancies himself the next big influential leader in the EU after Merkel. Do you seriously think he'd flush that position down the drain by trying to circumvent the french chief negotiator for the sake of a minor issue?

[Slant]

i guess it's in the interests of irish trade to increase their export costs and limit their market...

how lovely and caring is the eu?

"Limit their market" with the UK? I think you grossly overestimate the importance of the UK once again. And again, this isn't the EU's idea. This is all you. Only you, baby. YOU are doing this to Ireland. You and you alone. You knew how the EU works. You decided to fuck off. And you decided to fuck off in a manner that made life harder for Ireland. Nobody else forced you. You did this, because you did not think when you ought to have. You don't get to blame anyone else but yourself. Because you did not listen to experts telling you about these problems.

The EU is just dealing with the bullshit mess you have created for everyone else.

[Slant]

Actually it was Little Leo the Irish/EU tadpole that started the threats about airspace... and you know our position on the Irish border = we will not have one but if the EU wants to break the GFA then let them stick up the watchtowers. We have always been clear from day 1, it is the EU that has no coherent position.

The EU isn't breaking the GFA, because the EU is not part of the GFA. When will you guys get it. This is not the EU's problem to solve. This is your problem and you are responsible for making it a problem. In forcing the issue with NI and thus creating the Troubles in the first place, in signing the GFA and preparing yourself for an impossible place to be in and then actually, voluntarily and without force, walking into that impossible trap.

You do not get to blame anyone else but your very own British stubborness for this. So get off your high horse and get dirty, because it's your task to find a solution, not the EUs. Fucking spineless worm, trying to get the EU to fix the shit you create. Do it yourself, punk. We're not your vassals.

[zealo]

That might be decided by Naval enforcement though don't you think? Much of a navy does the EU have?

Unlike what brexiteers on the internet may want, the British navy isn't dumb enough to on a whim start blockading ships just passing through international waters without any provocation, just because part of those shipping lanes happen to be in the British economic zone.

[Slant]

Merkel's influence is diminished due to political troubles at home and their is no heir apparent so Macron is stepping up as he is supposed to; it was ALWAYS a two-person show in the EU between France and Germany with the UK stepping in; the UK is now stepping out and France is finally stepping back in giving Germany some needed diplomatic support.

Finally, I'd like to add. France has really lacked a big leader recently. But Macron is not really popular at home, I heard. Hope he can get his reforms done without too much political damage.

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The amount of victim blaming they are doing is amazing isn't it?

Anyway for Ireland, the issue is significant to their economy. It's the only market they have a land border with anyway after all. And the EU will assist them within reason but within reason only. It's not everyone else's fault that they chose to do so much business with a state that largely seems insane.

We will have to find our own solution to help Ireland. Preferably one that can be done without the UK, because I wouldn't touch an agreement they made with a ten foot pole, really. Not sure how that solution is going to be, but I wouldn't mind investing serious money into strengthening Ireland to a point where they don't need the UK anymore. About NI, though... not our problem anymore. Let the UK deal with it.

[Slant]

The weakness of Sarkozy and the utter incompetence and weakness of Hollande were imo the two biggest disasters in EU internal diplomacy for the past decade.

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The thing is, before this, a lot of Europe was PISSED at Ireland for operating as a tax haven, constantly skirting our laws and robbing people in the EU and abroad of taxation income. I'd be OK with the EU helping Ireland if not for being one of the international stars of Grand Theft Taxation.

I wonder how long until everyone cries for the EU to start fiscal policy doing from Brussels. That would solve so many problems and inconsistencies. But, at that point we're actually talking about a federal nation soon. It's one of those holy grails that make a nation. We already got currency, legislation in many areas (but not even close to all encompassing), we are discussing a EU defense force openly. Now fiscal policy doesn't look half shit, to be honest. How long until we just call the child by its name? What else is left?

[dribbles]

The EU isn't breaking the GFA, because the EU is not part of the GFA. When will you guys get it. This is not the EU's problem to solve. This is your problem and you are responsible for making it a problem. In forcing the issue with NI and thus creating the Troubles in the first place, in signing the GFA and preparing yourself for an impossible place to be in and then actually, voluntarily and without force, walking into that impossible trap.

You do not get to blame anyone else but your very own British stubborness for this. So get off your high horse and get dirty, because it's your task to find a solution, not the EUs. Fucking spineless worm, trying to get the EU to fix the shit you create. Do it yourself, punk. We're not your vassals.

Oh but it is an EU problem and they are acting illegally by failing to address it. Look at Article 8 here (page 20 ish):-

https://europa.eu/european-union/sit...reaties_en.pdf

"The Union shall develop a special relationship with neighbouring countries, aiming to establish
an area of prosperity and good neighbourliness, founded on the values of the Union and
characterised by close and peaceful relations based on cooperation."

So we are a neighbouring country who the EU as per their own laws must treat as special. Are the EU lawful or lawless? Can they be trusted or not?

Stick to your laws and treaties please, that's all we ask. Is that too much to ask?

[Gibblewink]

Developing a special relationship with my neighbour doesn't mean I have to let him bang my wife and shoot my dog. There is really no prohibition against thinking while reading EU treaties

[Slant]

Oh but it is an EU problem and they are acting illegally by failing to address it. Look at Article 8 here (page 20 ish):-

https://europa.eu/european-union/sit...reaties_en.pdf

"The Union shall develop a special relationship with neighbouring countries, aiming to establish
an area of prosperity and good neighbourliness, founded on the values of the Union and
characterised by close and peaceful relations based on cooperation."

So we are a neighbouring country who the EU as per their own laws must treat as special. Are the EU lawful or lawless? Can they be trusted or not?

Stick to your laws and treaties please, that's all we ask. Is that too much to ask?

Wow, your last straw is being "treated special"? I mean, that's vague as shit. We are treating you special by offering to continue to trade with us on terms you just have to agree with. You're in a spot to get a better deal than Japan, Canada and Australia (supposedly). And you throw it away because you're stubborn. And still we're trying to be friends. We're really treating you like the special child the UK actually is at the moment.

I think we're holding up our end of the bargain pretty fucking well, actually. If I had been in charge, I'd have simple ended the negotiations until you stopped clowning. But hey, continue your begging, It's an amusing change of tone from you. :P

[dribbles]

Wow, your last straw is being "treated special"? I mean, that's vague as shit. We are treating you special by offering to continue to trade with us on terms you just have to agree with. You're in a spot to get a better deal than Japan, Canada and Australia (supposedly). And you throw it away because you're stubborn. And still we're trying to be friends. We're really treating you like the special child the UK actually is at the moment.

I think we're holding up our end of the bargain pretty fucking well, actually. If I had been in charge, I'd have simple ended the negotiations until you stopped clowning. But hey, continue your begging, It's an amusing change of tone from you. :P

It is not begging Slanty, it is about apportioning blame. When negotiations fail it will be the fault of the side who can't stick their own internationally enshrined laws and treaties. That'd be the EU.

Having established the criminal states in these proceedings, it will be much easier to sell a tougher and tougher stance by the UK to the domestic audience against the EU to those modern day Neville Chamberlain remain appeasers who never learnt the lesson of history.