The Brexit aftermath thread

[Deleted]

may talking about respect.

the foreign secretary telling them to whistle for it, MPs comparing officials to concentration camp commandants, attempting to roll back on agreements already made, and then acting aggressively to the EU27 which you failed to divide and rule when they try and help you.


Tories are such dispicable cunts.

[Nigel Tufnel]

The EU were clear about Chequers basically before GRM tried to destroy it from his side. It was not going to happen. This isn't some new move from them, they have been saying it since the start.

It's they way it was done, though.

a) why did it take this long
b) why did it require, literally, humiliating May

Nothing good will come of this for either side.

[Gibblewink]

The EU saying nice things about Chequers was just them trying to give May a bit of support on the home front, that the concessions that had been given were appreciated and that she hadn't given up the cake for naught. They also said throughout that there were still a ways to go and that the plan wasn't workable as is.

The whole 'respect' thing I see more as damage control: She is trying to garner sympathy from the voters: "Look the EU is being a meanie and disrespecting your PM" - and by extension disrespecting the UK as a whole so that the people will be too busy being angry at the filthy continentals to blame her for not getting the easy and awesome deal they'd been told to expect.

[Kallisto]

It's they way it was done, though.

a) why did it take this long
b) why did it require, literally, humiliating May

Nothing good will come of this for either side.

How is it long. This is not the first time they have said no to Chequers.

They said no to Chequers the day after it was announced for crying out loud. This humiliating of May is basically what needs to be done after saying no for the 100th time like a crybaby who is stomping their feet because they're not getting their way.

[Mormolyce]

It's fucking hilarious watching this shitshow.

Now back to internal bickering over Brexit, as if any of the plans they come up with are going to be received any better than Chequers was. Ha!

Basically they started a negotiation with zero bargaining power, and tried to bluff a hand everyone could see, while spending two years arguing amongst themselves that they aren't bluffing high enough.

[Nigel Tufnel]

How is it long. This is not the first time they have said no to Chequers.

They said no to Chequers the day after it was announced for crying out loud. This humiliating of May is basically what needs to be done after saying no for the 100th time like a crybaby who is stomping their feet because they're not getting their way.

But, that is simply untrue.

It has taken this long for them to *formally* reject the proposal as "not acceptable".

As Nymrohd says, the language leading up to this point (Salzburg) has not been of that nature.

Why has it taken this long? This is not an issue that needs addressing urgently? Jesus Christ.

As for humiliating May in this way.... nope, it's indefensible. It was petulant, reckless & ultimately childish in the same way you accuse the UK of behaving. It will only benefit those on the extreme ends of the discussion.

I expect better from our leaders and I suggest you should too.

[Mormolyce]

It's they way it was done, though.

a) why did it take this long
b) why did it require, literally, humiliating May

Nothing good will come of this for either side.

Honestly, they need to wake the fuck up and realise that the EU isn't "playing hardball". They're a wrecking ball and they're coming whether the UK likes it or not. There is zero incentive for them to make a special deal, and every incentive to let Britain take the hardest knock possible. They aren't interested in propping up May to save a shred of the status quo. If the hardliners seize the party, put up an even more ridiculous Brexit plan and inevitably get shot down, sending the UK through hard Brexit, that plays just fine into their hand. UK economy takes the biggest hit out of all the options, discouraging leavers and establishing that there will be no sweet deals for -exit campaigns.

I mean it's still possible they'll agree to some deal further down the track, but it's going to require the UK to get serious and make some painful public concessions. May's plan is more realistic than the glittery unicorn deal the Brexiteers are dreaming of, but it's still fundamentally in fantasy cake eating land.

Whoever negotiates this deal is going to be humiliated one way or another.

[Pann]

But, that is simply untrue.

It has taken this long for them to *formally* reject the proposal as "not acceptable".

As Nymrohd says, the language leading up to this point (Salzburg) has not been of that nature.

Why has it taken this long? This is not an issue that needs addressing urgently? Jesus Christ.

As for humiliating May in this way.... nope, it's indefensible. It was petulant, reckless & ultimately childish in the same way you accuse the UK of behaving. It will only benefit those on the extreme ends of the discussion.

I expect better from our leaders and I suggest you should too.

Agreed.

But in all honesty you're wasting your time.

[Mormolyce]

Well, if they get their hard Brexit it will absolutely open the door for their cornucopia of wondrous trade deals, so they'll have to cook up some kind of "the evil EU is obstructing our deals and applying pressure to the other guys" nonsense should the deals mysteriously fail to appear. Whether Brits eat that kind of explanation is another issue - it does have the appeal of placing the blame on someone else.

Remember when Trump was in town and he blatantly said that if May got her way, forget about any deal with the US?

And yet they forged on. What a fucking farce.

[Deleted]

[Gibblewink]

You don't formally reject the work of your opponent while you are still negotiating - particularly when said work is an improvement over what they had just wasted the better part of a year musing on. You make encouraging noises about there being progress and hope for the future negotiations so that they can go home and tell their party that they got something so the process can keep going, because negotiations aren't handled through dismissive press releases but behind closed doors - at least until you don't really believe there is much hope left.

She wasn't humiliated or given no reason for the shortcomings of Chequers. The EU has been bloody clear what was wrong with the UK stance on the 4 pillars from the very beginning.

[Demolitia]

But, that is simply untrue.

It has taken this long for them to *formally* reject the proposal as "not acceptable".

As Nymrohd says, the language leading up to this point (Salzburg) has not been of that nature.

Why has it taken this long? This is not an issue that needs addressing urgently? Jesus Christ.

As for humiliating May in this way.... nope, it's indefensible. It was petulant, reckless & ultimately childish in the same way you accuse the UK of behaving. It will only benefit those on the extreme ends of the discussion.

I expect better from our leaders and I suggest you should too.

I'm actually surprised nobody has snapped like that on the EU side before. The EU has been adamant from day one that nothing affecting the integrity of the 4 pillars would be acceptable. Two years later the UK comes up with a formal "detailed" plan, which - while being welcomed as a starting point, or finally something concrete from the UK - was deemed dead on arrival as it stands.

I'm not entirely sure that this is a top priority for most member states, and the EU as a whole. Hungary, the refugee crisis and national politics are higher on the list. While everyone agrees a deal would be great, nobody will go out of their ways to make it happen.

[Slant]

Those who care, maybe. You average Sun reader? Less likely. Just look at Dribbles. Does not seem educated at all.

Yes, well... Dribbles would still blame the EU decades after Britain is out. But I'm not talking about him, he's so not representative of the average Brit or Brexiteer even.

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What hurts remain is the intransigence of a little bit dim EU leaders. The British position has been clear for months with the main sticking point being the Irish border. This short video with JRM and Verhofstadt shows exactly the two sides impasse and who is and is not classlessly uneducated.



At this point the best course for the British would be if there is no movement on the EU side in October we should give 7 days notice to quit and save any further billions in charity donations to the EU this year along with the £39bn divorce settlement. We should honour all our Nato commitments to the exclusion of any required in defence of the EU and turn a blind eye to any antics the Russians get up to on their eastern border.

That is the road the EU is heading down, make no mistake.

Yeah... you shouldn't make wild assumptions about education. But, we can always ask your latest idol to have the same discussion in Dutch. I'm sure he'll still trump Verhofstaedt, right? Right?

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It would have been better then for the EU to have made its position clear before Salzburg instead of giving some support to May. Sink Chequers early so that they know it's either hard brexit or something else and have more time to prepare. If Chequers was simply untennable don't try to give her a lifeline and then yank it away, just tell her it doesn't work for us straight away and let her decide if she wants to evolve her positions further or just go for hard Brexit. They are feeding her narrative.

Well, parts of Chequers aren't so far off that you can't negotiate them. But Junckers said Chequers as a package was not going to happen about a week after Chequers was published. Not sure how often the EU has to repeat itself until May gets the message. That she didn't alter anything and then come to Salzburg isn't the fault of the EU, it's her fault for thinking... oh, let's wait a few weeks and the EU will magically change her mind. Or something. So now they had to show her up on the big stage and they were being super nice about it. Macron was the one that really took a harsh tone and I love him for it.

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may talking about respect.

the foreign secretary telling them to whistle for it, MPs comparing officials to concentration camp commandants, attempting to roll back on agreements already made, and then acting aggressively to the EU27 which you failed to divide and rule when they try and help you.


Tories are such dispicable cunts.

This perverse British fetish with WW2 and nazis is quite embarassing. One has to wonder if being a politician in the UK is somehow damaging major brain functions.

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It's they way it was done, though.

a) why did it take this long
b) why did it require, literally, humiliating May

Nothing good will come of this for either side.

The only thing humiliating May is her own op-ed in the Welt, putting the gun on the EU's chest and going "You move or else..." and the EU practically saying "Else what...?" What does she expect? I thought they were being extraordinarily diplomatic about what should essentially be phrase more like "Are you kidding me?"

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But, that is simply untrue.

It has taken this long for them to *formally* reject the proposal as "not acceptable".

As Nymrohd says, the language leading up to this point (Salzburg) has not been of that nature.

Why has it taken this long? This is not an issue that needs addressing urgently? Jesus Christ.

As for humiliating May in this way.... nope, it's indefensible. It was petulant, reckless & ultimately childish in the same way you accuse the UK of behaving. It will only benefit those on the extreme ends of the discussion.

I expect better from our leaders and I suggest you should too.

I am actually rather satisfied with the way European leaders are handling the situation. The heads of Governments are letting the EU do the talking, as it should be and when needed they support the EU. Every single time a newspaper tries to single out one of them, they basically go "I agree with the EU". When they say the EU is united in this, they're not joking. And that must be driving May up the walls, it seems.

[Nigel Tufnel]

Macron was the one that really took a harsh tone and I love him for it.

Macron is a narcissistic, arrogant, deluded, authoritarian (France needs a ‘Jupiterian’ head of state), granny-shagger who would be better off addressing his drop in popularity at home caused by his schizophrenic approach to policy.

And he, like Tusk, does the Remain cause absolutely no good whatsoever.

[Slant]

Macron is a narcissistic, arrogant, deluded, authoritarian (France needs a ‘Jupiterian’ head of state), granny-shagger who would be better off addressing his drop in popularity at home caused by his schizophrenic approach to policy.

And he, like Tusk, does the Remain cause absolutely no good whatsoever.

Ah, you guys love your nation banter. I'll not comment on that, it's part of the rogueish charm the typical Brit has. Of course, you're completely off the mark, but that's okay if you're funny enough. :P

Nobody here gives a shit about "Remain", honestly. We don't have to. The only thing we care about is getting the EU out of this with as little damage as possible. Whatever happens in the UK, as much as I may sympathize with people on a personal and individual level, is none of our business. By definition. And that makes it very much a You problem.

[Edge-]

After hearing snippets of May's speech coming back from negotiations from the EU, this was literally the first thing that popped up in my head.

Except she was being serious and it wasn't funny : (

[Nigel Tufnel]

Ah, you guys love your nation banter. I'll not comment on that, it's part of the rogueish charm the typical Brit has. Of course, you're completely off the mark, but that's okay if you're funny enough. :P

In what way is that nation banter? I'm critiquing him as person, a leader and a statesman. He's a wannabe Trudeau but fails on all levels.

Nobody here gives a shit about "Remain", honestly. We don't have to. The only thing we care about is getting the EU out of this with as little damage as possible. Whatever happens in the UK, as much as I may sympathize with people on a personal and individual level, is none of our business. By definition. And that makes it very much a You problem.

Yep, fine....

I'm done for a bit.

Remainers in the UK. If you feel strongly about this issue, please join:

People's Vote March

at midday 20 October, Park Lane London

Rather than argue with anonymous folk on an internet forum dedicated to computer gaming, get out there and do something positive.

[Demolitia]

Either the UK stays in the EU or joins in an EFTA or they abandon the Good Friday Agreement.

But May's government holds only because of the DUP (not so much their goodwill as the cash she's throwing at them). They're holding her hostage on this one, so she'll never even go there. I wonder if this border would have been such a problem if the DUP hadn't been in the coalition.

[Demolitia]

Her choice. She had another choice than to walk into an impossible situation and that was NOT governing with the DUP. She also has many other choices; she can make a call for a second referendum and send the responsibility back to the people.
As for the DUP, I think the DUP cares about no border between NI and the UK. The GFA . . . not as much. I honestly doubt that either side's leadership has fully left the Troubles behind. Wounds like that don't close easy and reopen in a flash.

Wouldn't the DUP walk out and cause her government to collapse if she even mentioned the idea?

[Slant]

Wouldn't the DUP walk out and cause her government to collapse if she even mentioned the idea?

To be honest, I don't think anyone in Europe believes the UK Government will survive Brexit. Least of all May herself. You have to give the woman respect, she's doing what she can with the shittiest hand a douche could have dealt to her. Thanks Cameron... I mean that dude should really serve some time for the major idiocy that he caused.