The Brexit aftermath thread

[Deleted]

Seriously, are you retarded? Goldman Sachs is the biggest bank in the world, it couldn't possibly have happened without the endorsement of the financial class which is the dominant economic power in Britain.Do you really all those banks want to make costly relocations to the EU?

You people are fucking idiots, unaware of even the most basic information, like liberal mail readers.

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Is this an example of the amazing intellectual argument you were complaining about.

Let me explain something to you: memes are something single-digit IQ's use. You have to be very stupid to think cut-and-pasting an image came up with is a response to an intelligent argument. I thought you knew this and were just trolling but judging from your previous comments you seem to think you are mensa material or something.

And yes, there are many influential Marxists/anarchist/left-wingers who have come up with coherent logical arguments that are generally respected in the academic community as such even if people disagree with. Ten seconds googling allows you to disprove this ridiculous statement.

ten seconds of googling, wow further intelligent argument there.

you could make your posting habits alot easier if you just copy paste this 'me so smart, u dumb lol'

[Deleted]

The sad thing is, I'm at best slightly above average intelligence. Yet I come here and feel like Stephen Hawking on amphetamines.

Any one can see you are borderline retarded. Your posts consist of one or two sentence excessively limited vocabulary. Obviously it is far too much to expect someone like you to pick up a book and read it, but given that all the information in the world is at your fingertips and you STILL can't be bothered to access it, jesus that makes you SOOOOO stupid.

I used to be able to understand thick people, information didn't use to be so accessible, you had to go to libraries to find things. Yet lazy cunts like you can't even be bothered to type a few words into a computer.

so you are too lazy to make the argument then, it doesn't take more than a sentence to get that across.

[Dizzeeyooo]

*shrug* They can name it "special border" where people and companies from North Ireland can cross freely while everyone from EU will not?

Out of interest, how do you differentiate between two groups of people if your intention is that one group should have zero checks imposed on them? Do you just politely ask that everyone in the second group choose to identify themselves, and trust that they will all do so?

ultimately, GFA is agreement between UK and North Ireland, not EU.

The GFA is an agreement between the UK and the ROI (a member of the EU), and all Northern Ireland citizens have the automatic and irremovable right to an EU passport - the EU is involved in the GFA.

[Shalcker]

Out of interest, how do you differentiate between two groups of people if your intention is that one group should have zero checks imposed on them?

Automated passport check perhaps for crossing the border? Face recognition to re-direct people to check-less queue?

I can imagine plenty of implementations that would be close to seamless.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Automated passport check perhaps for crossing the border? Face recognition to re-direct people to check-less queue?

I can imagine plenty of implementations that would be close to seamless.

So your solution to allow people from Northen Ireland to cross freely is to impose checks of some sort on people from Northern Ireland before they can cross?

"Freely" means "freely", not "as freely as possible"

On top of that, the Irish border has 208 official crossing points, and virtually zero infrastructure to prevent people avoiding those crossing points - would you perform these checks at each of those points, and then build a wall along the rest of the border to prevent people avoiding the checks? Who is policing those wall segments?

[Acidbaron]

Automated passport check perhaps for crossing the border? Face recognition to re-direct people to check-less queue?

I can imagine plenty of implementations that would be close to seamless.

Let me be kind to you in this rare occasion. Any kind of border would trigger a series of issues. The whole reason there is a debate about this is because no level of a border is acceptable, as it would be detrimental to their rights to move freely and to the economy. The peace was obtained due to a lack of a border.

You're welcome for this short informative post.

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so you are too lazy to make the argument then, it doesn't take more than a sentence to get that across.

Hey now, don't be mean some people actually have a disability. No reason to call them all stupid!

[Shalcker]

So your solution to allow people from Northen Ireland to cross freely is to impose checks of some sort on people from Northern Ireland before they can cross?

"Freely" means "freely", not "as freely as possible"

In practice "freely" usually means "exactly as free as people on the other side"; it is always "as freely as possible", not some abstract "but free means totally free".

On top of that, the Irish border has 208 official crossing points - would you perform these checks at each of those points, and then build a wall along the rest of the border to prevent people avoiding the checks? Who is policing those wall segments?

People can also cross the Channel on boat (or, as some did, by just swimming) - does that mean there should be wall along entire coast?

Usually countries stop at some practical level then police the rest in other ways.

[Dizzeeyooo]

In practice "freely" usually means "exactly as free as people on the other side"; it is always "as freely as possible", not some abstract "but free means totally free"

Usually, absolutely - but we are not talking about usually, we are talking about the Irish border, where "freely" means "freely" as far as the GFA is concerned, not "as freely as possible".

People can also cross the Channel on boat (or, as some did, by just swimming) - does that mean there should be wall along entire coast?

For this example to work, you would need to replace the water in the channel with earth so that it is easy to walk from one side to the other, and then ask the question again - the answer should be obvious.

[Shalcker]

Usually, absolutely - but we are not talking about usually, we are talking about the Irish border, where "freely" means "freely" as far as the GFA is concerned, not "as freely as possible".

Could you give me actual quote about "freely" moving through Irish border from GFA text? I can't seem to find it, maybe the wording is different.

Here is link to full text.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Could you give me actual quote about "freely" moving through Irish border from GFA text? I can't seem to find it, maybe the wording is different.

Here is link to full text.

Well done for googling good friday agreement - read the CTA (that the GFA builds on) and then read the discussions that have gone on over time in the UK/Irish parliaments around the CTA and the GFA.

Understand what the Irish border actually looks like - there are roads that zigzag across the border multiple times with zero indication that you have crossed between two places. How do you place checks on that?

[Shalcker]

Well done for googling good friday agreement - read the CTA (that the GFA builds on) and then read the discussions that have gone on over time in the UK/Irish parliaments around the CTA and the GFA.

So it isn't actually GFA itself but bunch of previous and later agreements and clarifications? That could take a while. Perhaps someone gathered those in one place already?

As far as i see from history GFA/CTA doesn't directly forbids any and all border checks - as there were 2008 proposals to that end (that, ultimately, didn't happen).

Understand what the Irish border actually looks like - there are roads that zigzag across the border multiple times with zero indication that you have crossed between two places. How do you place checks on that?

By negotiating? That's how those things usually get done.

Negotiating between RoI and UK, not between UK and EU.

Maybe UK can use RoI to sell things into EU through maintaining CTA while technically being outside of it.

[ranzino]

"One of Japan’s largest banks has blamed Brexit for its decision to move part of its business to Amsterdam, 24 hours after Theresa May sought to enlist the Japanese prime minister in the fight to save her deal with the EU."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...e-to-amsterdam

Make Britain poor again...

[Dizzeeyooo]

So it isn't actually GFA itself but bunch of previous and later agreements and clarifications? That could take a while. Perhaps someone gathered those in one place already?

the GFA builds on principles established in previous agreements and clarifications - the entire thing is ridiculously complicated because that was the only way to actually "fix" the issues that were causing people to kill each other for 40 years, and lots of it is built on the fact that no-one in 1998 thought the UK would be stupid enough to mess things up like this by trying to leave the single market.

Negotiating between RoI and UK, not between UK and EU

Why would the ROI choose to do something like this that is not in their interest? Why do you think countries choose to join the EU?

Maybe UK can use RoI to sell things into EU through maintaining CTA while technically being outside of it.

Why would the EU or the ROI allow the UK to choose to compromise the single market?

[Shalcker]

the GFA builds on principles established in previous agreements and clarifications - the entire thing is ridiculously complicated because that was the only way to actually "fix" the issues that were causing people to kill each other for 40 years, and lots of it is built on the fact that no-one in 1998 thought the UK would be stupid enough to mess things up like this by trying to leave the single market.

Why would the ROI choose to do something like this that is not in their interest? Why do you think countries choose to join the EU?

Why wouldn't it be in their interest? Routing UK manufacturing output/trade through RoI due to their "special status" is going to put previous schemes like Apple's billions of tax avoidance to shame in terms of their profits.

Why would the EU or the ROI allow the UK to choose to compromise the single market?

Well, EU wants to maintain RoI as part of EU, and UK wants RoI to be part of CTA, and i don't see how it could be avoided if both say "That's how it is going to be" while not negotiating between themselves...

What, EU will push RoI out? Or forbid trade through CTA which they currently defend?

[Slant]

Got to note that Varoufakis does support Corbyn.

Nobody gave a shit what that twat was thinking back then, why would we care now?

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Automated passport check perhaps for crossing the border? Face recognition to re-direct people to check-less queue?

I can imagine plenty of implementations that would be close to seamless.

Indiscriminate face recognition and the state as your constant watchdog? Not surprised to hear that kind of talk from a Putinista.

[Shalcker]

Indiscriminate face recognition and the state as your constant watchdog? Not surprised to hear that kind of talk from a Putinista.

UK is already running trials.

[Mayhem]

Well, EU wants to maintain RoI as part of EU, and UK wants RoI to be part of CTA, and i don't see how it could be avoided if both say "That's how it is going to be" while not negotiating between themselves...

What, EU will push RoI out? Or forbid trade through CTA which they currently defend?

God damn it, please read the fucking past 630 pages, all of this has been talked about at least once.

[Shalcker]

God damn it, please read the fucking past 630 pages, all of this has been talked about at least once.

Yes, i can see arguments that it will work just like that two years ago.

[Mayhem]

Yes, i can see arguments that it will work just like that two years ago.

You should also read the answers to those arguments. And apparently, you've missed that the EU gave RoI veto rights because of the GFA, so how is the EU pushing RoI?

[ranzino]

WA ratification would require less than 27 countries, RoI is glad to have a veto granted by its co-members. and RoI knows we'll also answer request for some help in the upcoming economic backfire.