The Brexit aftermath thread

[Dizzeeyooo]

All that lovely state aid he could give unfettered

All that state aid that ironically he could already give unfettered while we are members of the EU

[Slant]

Besides an election being messed around with, we have plenty of populists people going after low hanging fruit, really don't need the UK parties on top of that.

Also you are naive if you think after 2 years of not knowing what they want they'll magically reach a conclusion in those few weeks. Those weeks have to be there to work a the details that's all the extension should be for, not more time spend on all the rest. No they are already setting up the stage for it to becoming the "EU's fault" look at the backstop talks.

First they need to come up with something, then we can start talking about an extension not the other way around.

I don't think they'll come up with anything, I agree with you. But I think it would be worth our while in diplomatic currency and credibility, if we keep on giving them more time to bury themselves. There's really nothing to lose. The populists in the UK will blame the EU either way, we have nothing to gain from shutting the door and giving them more fuel.

I would support both and extension and letting them crash out on March 29th. What I would not support is the EU opening up the negotiations again. They have said it's done and only phrasing of explanations would be open to adjustment and they should stick to their word.

[Demolitia]

All rumours point towards the EU only granting a limited extension until the MEP elections in summer.

That bit is not really a rumour. The logic behind the extension being granted until July (when the new MEPs arrive), is that the mandate given to Barnier was given by the current parliament. The mandate might expire with the new parliament.
edit: we won't know for sure until it happens, but there is a big legal question mark on this point.

[Slant]

Just the Deputy EU negotiator once more reassuring that the withdrawal agreement won't be reopened. The EU is very clear about this, why the Commons are even discussing that... and wasting an entire day of debate on that, too, nobody knows... Beyond delusional.

[Dizzeeyooo]

My partner just had a call from NHS Blood Donation, cancelling her April appointment, because they're shutting down in Kent port towns between mid-March and May, anticipating that Operation Stack on the M20 will prevent them from moving staff in or blood out.

"Taking back control"

[fathewathe]

But Corbyn has yet to confirm support for Cooper's amendment and that Labour MPs will be whipped. @Huehuecoyotl - at exactly what point is your faith in Corbyn / Labour leadership actually going to expire?

.

Oh fuck off you pompous, smug little Blairite cunt.

Labour is not your single-issue pressure group. You can go and join the LD's or some shitty breakaway party that believes in the neoliberal consensus/nothing.

Either way no one else will support you, you are an irrelevance. I'd rather see the country burn in a no-deal brexit than give you Chardonnay-sipping wankers an ounce of power ever again.

[Nigel Tufnel]

I'd rather see the country burn in a no-deal brexit

Aye, it will, dude. It will.

[Acidbaron]

The European Union (all 27 countries and the Commission) has already decided to reject the Brady amendment, should it be supported by MPs.

fucking decrepit old millionaires arguing about thier fantasies in parliment still. lets face it they will all be alright however it falls.

That's the whole problem isn't it, the UK "representatives" system is anything but representative of the current public.

[Shalcker]

That's the whole problem isn't it, the UK "representatives" system is anything but representative of the current public.

Just like EU "representation" though - both "27 countries and the Commission" and "European Parliament".

[Acidbaron]

Just like EU "representation" though - both "27 countries and the Commission" and "European Parliament".

You wouldn't even know what a representative government looked liked if it came in the shape of turnips.

[Shalcker]

You wouldn't even know what a representative government looked liked if it came in the shape of turnips.

Well, by which specific points do you think they are better representative system then British one, oh wise expert?

[Acidbaron]

Well, by which specific points do you think they are better representative system then British one, oh wise expert?

Not going to do your work for you turnip master, you say it isn't representative so go on then. Or is this another post of you begging for explanation about a topic you know nothing about in attempt to derail?

Okay i'm sorry, it's a better representative system by 2,5 turnips per person, happy now?

[Xarkan]

You wouldn't even know what a representative government looked liked if it came in the shape of turnips.

Would those be standardized shaped class I turnips or lesser quality shaped turnips?

Or does that only work with cucumbers?

[Xarkan]

https://ec.europa.eu/agriculture/fru...eting-standard
Turnips were never covered by a marketing standard and the marketing standard for cucumbers is now defunct.

I am aware.. In fact i googled it before making my poor joke

[Shalcker]

MEPs are elected by proportional vote over FPTP.

It is interesting that exactly the change from FPTP to proportional vote is what allowed Nigel Farage to come through (and for UKIP to get "elected representatives").

FPTP kept them out.

And, as another example, Yanis Varoufakis currently runs for European Parliament in Germany.

[Xarkan]

It is interesting that exactly the change from FPTP to proportional vote is what allowed Nigel Farage to come through (and for UKIP to get "elected representatives").

FPTP kept them out.

And, as another example, Yanis Varoufakis currently runs for European Parliament in Germany.

It is not for the voting system to keep people out, that would be for convincing arguments to try to achieve

Otherwise that democracy that is being talked about becomes less representative

Edit: Obviously if people cannot get enough votes that would keep people out, one could argue that is the system keeping them out

Edit squared: Also many countries (including my own) have minimum amount of % or votes a party need to get representation, i am aware

[Shalcker]

It is not for the voting system to keep people out, that would be for convincing arguments to try to achieve

Otherwise that democracy that is being talked about becomes less representative

Edit: Obviously if people cannot get enough votes that would keep people out, one could argue that is the system keeping them out

All representative systems do try to keep certain opinions out - sometimes dis-proportionally to their actual sway in population.

Means by which it happens differ between countries and voting systems.

Otherwise it wouldn't happen that countries do referendums on EU constitution which fail... if system was actually representative it wouldn't be voted in in the first place.

They got wiser with next Treaty of Lisbon to not put it to actual people's vote... but the only referendum still held on it (in Ireland) rejected it too... they had to re-run it...

[Kallisto]

And Lisbon was changed for Ireland to remove the stuff in it that caused the Irish people to reject it.

So people didn't vote on same thing but a different thing.

[Dhrizzle]

It is interesting that exactly the change from FPTP to proportional vote is what allowed Nigel Farage to come through (and for UKIP to get "elected representatives").

FPTP kept them out.

And, as another example, Yanis Varoufakis currently runs for European Parliament in Germany.

That isn't a failing of the voting system, it's a failure of the British politicians to to properly engage the electorate in the EU political process, allowing a small but passionate group greater power due to low turnout.

[Shalcker]

And Lisbon was changed for Ireland to remove the stuff in it that caused the Irish people to reject it.
So people didn't vote on same thing but a different thing.

Yeah, it does look from post-referendum analysis that EU concessions/assurances were quite important in ultimate "yes" vote.

Concessions that didn't come in case of Brexit vote and post-Brexit negotiations (and that is why any possible re-run is unlikely to be successful in "remaining").

- - - Updated - - -

That isn't a failing of the voting system, it's a failure of the British politicians to to properly engage the electorate in the EU political process, allowing a small but passionate group greater power due to low turnout.

Each political system optimizes for their own challenges - that is, in case of Britain, FPTP shenanigans.

Farage could get around it when EU introduced proportional vote into MEP selection instead.

Sometimes fragility of your democratic system is guarded by other structural components keeping disruptors at bay - components that can be weaker to different approaches.