The Brexit aftermath thread

[Mittens]

Ah, so it was kept to general statements, I see. And it is funny that the whole 'the EU is Germany's tool' argument is still a thing, given the anti-EU rhetoric that has been going on here.

It literally is. The EU acts swiftly when it comes to protecting German interests.

Your policy of devaluation has some nasty side effects? Don't worry lad we have you covered. Is German inflation going too high? It's okay we are raising those interest rates, fuck southern Europe who cares about them anyway . Countries around Europe are doing their best to protect the entirety of Europe from falling into a crisis by taking a huge balance of debt sheets, oops we can't interfere sovereignty and all that, but don't worry because we are going to force austerity programs down your throat later on.

[Mayhem]

It literally is. The EU acts swiftly when it comes to protecting German interests.

Your policy of devaluation has some nasty side effects? Don't worry lad we have you covered. Is German inflation going too high? It's okay we are raising those interest rates, fuck southern Europe who cares about them anyway . Countries around Europe are doing their best to protect the entirety of Europe from falling into a crisis by taking a huge balance of debt sheets, oops we can't interfere sovereignty and all that, but don't worry because we are going to force austerity programs down your throat later on.

Clueless as always, but you have quite the road ahead of you to get to dribbles level, keep going though.

[Deleted]

It literally is. The EU acts swiftly when it comes to protecting German interests.

Ein Volk, Ein Reich, Eine Mutter!
For gods sake, please drop this bullshit.

Your policy of devaluation has some nasty side effects? Don't worry lad we have you covered.

Yes, it was entirely voluntary to join the EURO, created to stymie Germany - Literally, it was the price the Germans had to pay to be one country again.

Is German inflation going too high? It's okay we are raising those interest rates, fuck southern Europe who cares about them anyway .

This is a problem of being in a sub-optimal currency area, but raising interest rates did not hurt the southern countries (because they have consistently been lowered since 2008), profligate lending did.

Countries around Europe are doing their best to protect the entirety of Europe from falling into a crisis by taking a huge balance of debt sheets, oops we can't interfere sovereignty and all that, but don't worry because we are going to force austerity programs down your throat.

yes, the mean Germans, having the temerity to have conditions for loaning the Greeks their credit card.

[Mittens]

[I]
yes, the mean Germans, having the temerity to have conditions for loaning the Greeks their credit card.

TIL Ireland got the German credit card.

This is a problem of being in a sub-optimal currency area, but raising interest rates did not hurt the southern countries (because they have consistently been lowered since 2008), profligate lending did.

https://www.ft.com/content/b7f5ae80-...9-00144feab49a

Really makes you think.

[Deleted]

Yes, best get rid of free movement of people and services and only leave free movement of goods (free trade agreements).
That will surely help the situation... oh wait...

Maybe you should look at the headline of that graphic you digged up and think for a few seconds?

It's almost like the solution has nothing to do with leaving the EU, but rather having to do with loaning less money? to buy the German stuff?
Or i dunno, having a working industrial strategy instead of having a London centric strategy? - Maybe the best idea would simply be to stop focusing solely on London and caring about all the stuff to the north? (you know, most of the country).

- - - Updated - - -

TIL Ireland got the German credit card.

They did loan money from the IMF - In any case, it would have been perfectly permissible for the Irish government to let the banks fail.

Really makes you think.

Not really.

[Mittens]

They did loan money from the IMF - In any case, it would have been perfectly permissible for the Irish government to let the banks fail.

They could've. The entirety of Europe could've said it fuck it, let everyone be and bail their banks on a domestic level, but they didn't because they did the responsible thing expecting for Germany and the ECB to follow suit. That was their mistake.

Not really.

Are my eyes deceiving me or is that not an increase in interest rates around 2011? Back when the entirety of southern Europe needed stimulus. And before you come to me with inflation concerns, the UK did not raise interests even tho it had higher inflation.

[Noradin]

It's almost like the solution has nothing to do with leaving the EU, but rather having to do with loaning less money? to buy the German stuff?
Or i dunno, having a working industrial strategy instead of having a London centric strategy? - Maybe the best idea would simply be to stop focusing solely on London and caring about all the stuff to the north? (you know, most of the country).

Well they are taking pains to address that problem--by tearing down the service sector in London.
As soon as that is gone magic will finally be free of evil bankers and transform the UK back into the land of cockaigne it was always meant to be.
I guess the flying grilled geese will be very wellcome when food imports from the EU get cut off due to the queues border controlls will cause--something the UK cannot avoid under WTO rules unless they get a deal with the EU or are willing to let in any and all foodstuff from everywhere unfettered and duty free.

[Mormolyce]

Seriously though, you can just stop Brexit.

what's wrong with moving to another country if you are no longer proud of the country you were born and raised in.

this is the reality for many leave voters, me included. why would i want to be part of a country that puts business, eu/foreign investment and aims ahead of the Great British public's beliefs? i think immigration is great, but there needs to be correct parameters by which people come into the country. i think capitalism is great but there needs to be socially democratic methods to control the flow of capital in and out of a country. i think federalisation is wrong, i think each country should be proud of it's own sovereignty. these are the reasons people voted leave. we are happy taking an economic hit if we can take back control of our borders and laws.

Your logic here is so gobsmacking it should be on display in the Smithsonian.

[Floopa]

Your logic here is so gobsmacking it should be on display in the Smithsonian.

are you are in favour of:
1) unregulated immigration?
2) unregulated capitalism?
3) federalisation at the cost of sovereignty?

answer please.

[Mormolyce]

are you are in favour of:
1) unregulated immigration?
2) unregulated capitalism?
3) federalisation at the cost of sovereignty?

answer please.

1) Depends what you mean - I think immigration should be managed effectively, if you count that as "regulated". But I suspect you mean laws to keep the volume down.
2) No.
3) That question is baffling, federalisation implies you're talking about nationalism, but sovereignty applies at the national level...

[Floopa]

1) Depends what you mean - I think immigration should be managed effectively, if you count that as "regulated". But I suspect you mean laws to keep the volume down.
2) No.
3) That question is baffling, federalisation implies you're talking about nationalism, but sovereignty applies at the national level...

1) absolutely. i welcome immigration, but there needs to checks to balance and manage immigration effectively.

2) awesome, i'm for regulated capitalism too.

3) federalisation is the grouping of multiple governments into 1 big government (admittedly a simplistic definition), by doing that you inherently lose sovereignty because decisions regarding your country's specific issues and management is now made by others on behalf of the country's government, sometimes in spite of that country's government.

looks like you're, actually, a leave voter

[Dhrizzle]

Polling afterwards by Yougov/Survation (trustworthy, called the 2017 GE correctly) will typically ask questions for why people voted leave. Immigration was a big reason, the economic hit was not a convincing argument. The NHS being able to receive more money (a complete lie) was a big reason. These things are documented, as are the current voting public thoughts on in/out of eu and yes/no on a second eu ref.

the eu's entire purpose is to make germany arbiters of their own wealth. they dictate all the rules and all of the rules are in their favour.

If you put such great stock in polls how do you feel about the latest poll that says 45% of the public thinks leaving is a mistake with only 43% saying it was the correct decision?

[Mormolyce]

1) absolutely. i welcome immigration, but there needs to checks to balance and manage immigration effectively.

2) awesome, i'm for regulated capitalism too.

3) federalisation is the grouping of multiple governments into 1 big government (admittedly a simplistic definition), by doing that you inherently lose sovereignty because decisions regarding your country's specific issues and management is now made by others on behalf of the country's government, sometimes in spite of that country's government.

looks like you're, actually, a leave voter

That's not federalisation. That's when a bunch of provinces, territories, colonies etc band together and become a country. I presume you're really asking me about multi-state unions such as the EU and how much sovereignty if any should be surrendered in that name.

But really you're begging all three questions because all three are a matter of degree.

If I lived in the UK this would be my position on Brexit: don't put it to a referendum, that's idiotic. Put together a non-partisan panel of experts and invest years into creating a comprehensive, wide ranging and detailed study of the total costs and benefits of EU membership to the UK - financial, political, economic, and sure maybe even nationalistic. Then present all the findings and allow open debates with various interest groups to explain the results. Spend years on this. This is not something to make a rash decision on.

At the end of all that, armed with actual facts, then make a decision. Because today, I would be shocked if 5% of the UK is sufficiently informed to make a call on this issue one way or the other. The only thing I can say for certain is that the Brexit process as it is currently being run is a fucking shambles, and Britain is heading into some extremely serious negotiations holding zero cards. That is a recipe for disaster, and the only sane strategy is to call it off and start again from square one.

[Floopa]

If you put such great stock in polls how do you feel about the latest poll that says 45% of the public thinks leaving is a mistake with only 43% saying it was the correct decision?

it's within the margin of error (typical +/- 3%). could easily be reversed.

i think ppl are looking more favourably at Brexit now that we've secured phase one.

[Deleted]

are you are in favour of:
1) unregulated immigration?

A, EU migration isn't unregulated.
B, More than half of all UK immigrants are NON EU migrants.

2) unregulated capitalism?

The EU, A socialist conspiracy to create a Laissez faire superstate.

3) federalisation at the cost of sovereignty?

One way or the other, the UK is not wholly sovereign - preserving Dejure sovereignty and paying in Defacto sovereignty is stupid.

[Dhrizzle]

it's within the margin of error (typical +/- 3%). could easily be reversed.

Oh so it's no longer a cast-iron "will of the Great British public" if it goes against your opinion? By the way, what have you got against the Northern Irish, why do you always deliberately exclude them?

i think ppl are looking more favourably at Brexit now that we've secured phase one.

Assuming Davis and May haven't fucked it all up again, I imagine people are relaxing a little about Brexit now that a softer one seems to be in order. If you're lucky you'll still be allowed to move to France when it all goes tits-up.

[Deleted]

Seems the UK will make ALL the concessions in this deal.

The EU is laughing it's ass off.

[ranzino]

Seems the UK will make ALL the concessions in this deal.

The EU is laughing it's ass off.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...ys-verhofstadt
UK cannot keep any promises, one day it was Statement of Intent, now Davis is busy to backtrack on that backpedaling. How do they sell that shit back in the country AND survive ?

[zealo]

Seems the UK will make ALL the concessions in this deal.

The EU is laughing it's ass off.

The EU always had the upper hand in these negotiations. The more interesting question is whether it'll all be done on time by April 2019, assuming the UK goes on to treat the negotiations more seriously than just a "statement of intent" per David Davis.

[ranzino]

The EU always had the upper hand in these negotiations. The more interesting question is whether it'll all be done on time by April 2019, assuming the UK goes on to treat the negotiations more seriously than just a "statement of intent" per David Davis.

UK has only 10 months left now, the ratification process eats up any further months.