The Brexit aftermath thread

[Dizzeeyooo]

Shipping and aircraft are covered by international treaties

international treaties between who?

Live animals do not need to be checked by vets

Documentary, identity and physical checks on live animals and products of animal origin would have to take place on 100% of consignments to the Single Market, unless you think the BVA is lying?

The UK not producing enough food to feed its population is true. The UK having a rationing minister is not

you should probably tell David Rutley that his job does not actually involve protecting food supplies in the case of no deal, it might be a relief to him

[Deleted]

I haven't added anything to this thread but thought I would address JRM. He has been chairing various investment groups and collective interests that in the past 18 months have almost exclusively done their business in EIRE, US and far east.
One of his closest associates from the somerset capital investment group was bragging about how this weeks chaos has made even more wealthy.
Unfortunately many leavers here in the UK see him as a saviour and can't grasp that he has a vested interest in the uncertainty (betting vs the pound) and thus has not and will not step up to the plate to "fix" the problem even if he could.

Shipping and aircraft are covered by international treaties.

The EU is not obligated to immediately to put up hard borders and it is simply impossible to do so in Ireland. Nor does everything entering the EU from the UK have to be checked.

JIT systems will be impacted but they will not cease. The M20 being part of operation stack is true. Food exports stopping because they are perishable is possible but questionable.

The UK not producing enough food to feed its population is true. The UK having a rationing minister is not.

Live animals do not need to be checked by vets and the EU is building more Border Inspection Points to deal with potential problems.

There might be issues with importing medical equipment and medicines so this point is probably correct. However stating that the health minister came out said that no deal may kill people is an exaggeration as the truth is that refused to rule out that no deal Brexit might kill people. Which in reality means that he refused to answer certain questions.

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By all means point out the negatives of Brexit. Shout them from the roofs for all to hear! But don't make stuff up.

FYI the minister is called David Rutley. His official title is Food minister and his mandate is to protect British food interests during brexit, including any potential rationing but I am led to believe the rationing isn't due to shortfall but rather fears of public hoarding and us having a repeat of the scenes during the snow when in some places you could drive 50 miles and not find a loaf of bread.

[Pann]

international treaties between who?

What?

Documentary, identity and physical checks on live animals and products of animal origin would have to take place on 100% of consignments to the Single Market, unless you think the BVA is lying?

Where does it say that these checks need to carried out by vets? The claim was that all animals need to carried out by vets and there are not enough vets in Europe to carry them out. This is an exaggeration.

you should probably tell David Rutley that his job does not actually involve protecting food supplies in the case of no deal, it might be a relief to him

Tell him what? That some people on the internet think he is the rationing minister? Okay!

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FYI the minister is called David Rutley. His official title is Food minister and his mandate is to protect British food interests during brexit, including any potential rationing but I am led to believe the rationing isn't due to shortfall but rather fears of public hoarding and us having a repeat of the scenes during the snow when in some places you could drive 50 miles and not find a loaf of bread.

I am well aware of who David Rutley is and his position. To claim that he is the rationing minister is an exaggeration.

[Dizzeeyooo]

Where does it say that these checks need to carried out by vets?

All exports to countries inside the Single Market would require an Export Health Certificate (EHC) signed by an Official Veterinarian (OV) creating an additional demand on veterinary capacity

There would be no agreed “backstop” in place to avoid the need for veterinary checks on live animals and products of animal origin at the land border between Northern Ireland and Ireland. Official Veterinarians (OV) would be required to undertake these checks

what do you think a veterinarian is?

What?

doing a Nadine again?

[Deleted]

You are quite correct claiming he is the rationing minister would be an exaggeration but can you concede in his role as Food minister he is the person who will recommend rationing if required? And thus concede that whether it a small chance or not there is a real enough danger of impact to food supplies that the government have specifically appointed a person to safeguard food supplies?

[Pann]

what do you think a veterinarian is?

The government think differently, but appreciate that they probably know less than you.

"If the UK leaves the EU in March 2019 with no deal in place, EHCs would be required for exports of all animal products and live animals from the UK to the EU. Consignments would need to travel through a Border Inspection Post (BIP) within the EU. EHCs would need to be signed by an Official Veterinarian or authorised signatory following inspection of the consignment.

To prepare for the potential increase in EHC numbers, work is being undertaken to make the application process simpler, and ensure there is enough capacity amongst appropriately trained veterinarians or authorised signatories to approve the additional certificates. Stakeholders will be informed of any changes to the existing process."

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...no-brexit-deal

Oh, and by the way I'm still waiting for you to explain why countries with different regulations are unable to trade with one another.

[Dizzeeyooo]

The government think differently, but appreciate that they probably know less than you

I'll trust the opinion of the British Veterinary Association over the current UK government any day of the week

Oh, and by the way I'm still waiting for you to explain why countries with different regulations are unable to trade with one another.

and i'm still waiting for you to stop doing such a good Nadine Dorries impression

[Pann]

You are quite correct claiming he is the rationing minister would be an exaggeration but can you concede in his role as Food minister he is the person who will recommend rationing if required? And thus concede that whether it a small chance or not there is a real enough danger of impact to food supplies that the government have specifically appointed a person to safeguard food supplies?

This is my point. By all means point out that it is bad that someone is needed in this position but don't exaggerate what his role is. When Brexit negatives are exaggerated it is all too easy to dismiss these concerns as project fear.

Just to clarify my position a little further. I want the draw backs and pitfalls of Brexit to be out there for all to see, I want them to be presented in easily understandable and verifiable points not be drowned out in endless semantics because remain has, once again, over stated its points.

I am firm believer that if you give people truthful and accurate information they will be able to reach an informed decision. If an argument against Brexit is not able to stand on its own and needs to be exaggerated then it is not worth making (there are plenty others that do not need embellishment) and by doing so you(we) only make it more difficult for people to discern what is true and what is not.


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I'll trust the opinion of the British Veterinary Association over the current UK government any day of the week


and i'm still waiting for you to stop doing such a good Nadine Dorries impression

Good for you.

Grow up!

[Dizzeeyooo]

Good for you.

Grow up!

hopefully at least some of her constituents can give her that advice too, she might stop sounding so fucking stupid all the time

[Mayhem]

The government think differently, but appreciate that they probably know less than you.

"If the UK leaves the EU in March 2019 with no deal in place, EHCs would be required for exports of all animal products and live animals from the UK to the EU. Consignments would need to travel through a Border Inspection Post (BIP) within the EU. EHCs would need to be signed by an Official Veterinarian or authorised signatory following inspection of the consignment.

To prepare for the potential increase in EHC numbers, work is being undertaken to make the application process simpler, and ensure there is enough capacity amongst appropriately trained veterinarians or authorised signatories to approve the additional certificates. Stakeholders will be informed of any changes to the existing process."

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...no-brexit-deal

Oh, and by the way I'm still waiting for you to explain why countries with different regulations are unable to trade with one another.

So, does anyone here understand what that means? What is an authorised signatory?

[Slant]

Shipping and aircraft are covered by international treaties.

The EU is not obligated to immediately to put up hard borders and it is simply impossible to do so in Ireland. Nor does everything entering the EU from the UK have to be checked.

JIT systems will be impacted but they will not cease. The M20 being part of operation stack is true. Food exports stopping because they are perishable is possible but questionable.

The UK not producing enough food to feed its population is true. The UK having a rationing minister is not.

Live animals do not need to be checked by vets and the EU is building more Border Inspection Points to deal with potential problems.

There might be issues with importing medical equipment and medicines so this point is probably correct. However stating that the health minister came out said that no deal may kill people is an exaggeration as the truth is that refused to rule out that no deal Brexit might kill people. Which in reality means that he refused to answer certain questions.

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By all means point out the negatives of Brexit. Shout them from the roofs for all to hear! But don't make stuff up.

Shipping and aircraft are covered by international treaties the UK is not part of once it's out of the EU. This isn't an exaggeration, it's how the world currently works.

The EU is obligated by the WTO rules. If the EU doesn't do it, the EU will immediately face several complaint cases at the WTO handed in by everyone else, because under WTO rules, you need a special trade agreement to gain preferential status. You cannot get preferential status without an agreement. It's not only possible to do in Ireland, it will have to be done. There is not even a discussion about it among anyone outside the UK. And yes, everything will get checked. How do you think the EU trades with the rest of the world? Everything gets checked, everything has to conform to our rules. That's how the cookie crumbles. And the UK, if they crash out, will be part of "ROW". That's what the remainers have preached us for the past two years. Don't start complaining now that somehow the EU is being mean to you...

JIT systems will grind to a halt. Did you not understand what just in time means? It means you have zero storage capacity. That's the whole point of JIT delivery, to save on storage costs. This means, if you run out of those silly bolts for your assembly line, the entire factory will grind to a halt and you can send your workers home until the truck with the silly bolts arrives. Because you have no bolts in storage. Because there is no storage for longer than a day, max.

Live animals do need to be checked. See above, rest of the world. And no, we don't "trust" you. We don't trust anyone, not even ourselves. Your veterinarians will lose their certification (part of the out means out thing), so whatever they tell us, unless they reapply for new certificates, will not have much weight. "Animals do not need to be checked by vets". Are you kidding me? Did you know that for the longest time, Norway wasn't allowed to bring dogs to Sweden? Something about a mean case of rabies epidemic. We do this all the time, mate.

Whatever your health minister is on about, I've not been quoting him. THINK, man. When you're out, you're out of EVERYTHING the EU ever touched. And all of that has to be rebuild via trade agreements.

This isn't making up stuff, this is the real world. It's just that your perspective is so fucked, because you have no idea how the ROW deals with us. You're used to being the centre of your little trade hub, which you are... right now. But how do you think Indonesia trades with us? Heck, they have factories in China building shit according to EU standards and regulations. They don't care about safety, their guys will get electrocuted while building power sockets that adhere to EU regulations and prevent people from shocking themselves. What did you think would happen, that the EU would leave the WTO just so they can get around their rules? That after these 2 years of headaches everyone in the EU will go "Yeah, fuck this.. just... send it. Nah, don't worry about insurance... I'm sure nothing will happen in the UK?"

How can you still be this naive? How can you still be doing domestic fucking British fucking politics while debating Brexit? Have you guys not heard the bells yet? Your political games are almost over, without youu noticing the EU has pretty much called these negotiations over. You will not get to ask anything of the EU anymore. What you have in your hand is what you get. And now you're going on a two page rant about "exaggerations" because yet another of your fucktard politician drunkards has made yet another idiotic comment, the shining example of British politics that he is? Is that your point?

Still can't believe you're thinking anyone outside your nation gives a fuck about your politics. We will forget all these names by May 2019, and good riddance, too. It's bad enough that I remember the Prime Ministers, let alone fucking douchbags like Farage, Johnsson and this Reese-Mogg dunce.

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To prepare for the potential increase in EHC numbers, work is being undertaken to make the application process simpler, and ensure there is enough capacity amongst appropriately trained veterinarians or authorised signatories to approve the additional certificates. Stakeholders will be informed of any changes to the existing process."[/I]

https://www.gov.uk/government/public...no-brexit-deal

Oh, and by the way I'm still waiting for you to explain why countries with different regulations are unable to trade with one another.

You know that the EU doesn't care what the UK thinks an authorised signatory is, right? If it's not a Veterinarian with a certificate from the EU, it won't fly. Do you think the EU let's just anyone sign documents for border inspections? Is that how the UK intends to control its borders? I can just waltz in there and go "Here, I just wrote it on paper, I am the new Chancellor of Germany, please let me in." and they believe it?

Other countries are trading with each other under WTO rules or within trade agreements. And everything that isn't covered by trade agreements is getting checked at customs. Might surprise you, since you've been spoiled in the EU, but yeah.. custom checks still exist.

[Pann]

Shipping and aircraft are covered by international treaties the UK is not part of once it's out of the EU. This isn't an exaggeration, it's how the world currently works.

EU / EASA Basic Regulation – Third Country participation (Article 66) states that "The Agency shall be open to the participation of European third countries which are contracting parties to the Chicago Convention and which have entered into agreements with the European Community..." which essentially means that as long as a European third country has signed up to the Chicago Convention (which the UK has) and it receives advance permission from member states to operate within that state. The EU commission has, also, acknowledged that a bare bones agreement regarding air travel would be desirable in the event of a no-deal Brexit.

https://ec.europa.eu/commission/site...s/aviation.pdf

The EU is obligated by the WTO rules. If the EU doesn't do it, the EU will immediately face several complaint cases at the WTO handed in by everyone else, because under WTO rules, you need a special trade agreement to gain preferential status. You cannot get preferential status without an agreement. It's not only possible to do in Ireland, it will have to be done. There is not even a discussion about it among anyone outside the UK. And yes, everything will get checked. How do you think the EU trades with the rest of the world? Everything gets checked, everything has to conform to our rules. That's how the cookie crumbles. And the UK, if they crash out, will be part of "ROW". That's what the remainers have preached us for the past two years. Don't start complaining now that somehow the EU is being mean to you...

Yeah, you see that is not the original claim nor does it address what I have written. The claim was that the EU would have immediately erect a hard border if the UK leaves without a deal, this is not the case the WTO allows a reasonable amount of time in order to implement to new customs arrangements nor is it physically possible to build a border in Ireland between now and March.

No, everything will not need to be checked nor is everything that is imported in the EU checked now.

JIT systems will grind to a halt. Did you not understand what just in time means? It means you have zero storage capacity. That's the whole point of JIT delivery, to save on storage costs. This means, if you run out of those silly bolts for your assembly line, the entire factory will grind to a halt and you can send your workers home until the truck with the silly bolts arrives. Because you have no bolts in storage. Because there is no storage for longer than a day, max.

Really? As long as those silly bolts arrive at the factory when they are needed it doesn't matter how long they are sitting at Dover. How do you think the likes of Honda operate JIT systems with engines shipped from Japan?

Live animals do need to be checked. See above, rest of the world. And no, we don't "trust" you. We don't trust anyone, not even ourselves. Your veterinarians will lose their certification (part of the out means out thing), so whatever they tell us, unless they reapply for new certificates, will not have much weight. "Animals do not need to be checked by vets". Are you kidding me? Did you know that for the longest time, Norway wasn't allowed to bring dogs to Sweden? Something about a mean case of rabies epidemic. We do this all the time, mate.

I never once said that animals do not need to be checked. It helps everyone is you actually read and respond to what people have written rather than what you imagine they written.

Whatever your health minister is on about, I've not been quoting him. THINK, man. When you're out, you're out of EVERYTHING the EU ever touched. And all of that has to be rebuild via trade agreements.

I have no idea what you're on about here or how it relates to anything I have written.

This isn't making up stuff, this is the real world. It's just that your perspective is so fucked, because you have no idea how the ROW deals with us. You're used to being the centre of your little trade hub, which you are... right now. But how do you think Indonesia trades with us? Heck, they have factories in China building shit according to EU standards and regulations. They don't care about safety, their guys will get electrocuted while building power sockets that adhere to EU regulations and prevent people from shocking themselves. What did you think would happen, that the EU would leave the WTO just so they can get around their rules? That after these 2 years of headaches everyone in the EU will go "Yeah, fuck this.. just... send it. Nah, don't worry about insurance... I'm sure nothing will happen in the UK?"

How can you still be this naive? How can you still be doing domestic fucking British fucking politics while debating Brexit? Have you guys not heard the bells yet? Your political games are almost over, without youu noticing the EU has pretty much called these negotiations over. You will not get to ask anything of the EU anymore. What you have in your hand is what you get. And now you're going on a two page rant about "exaggerations" because yet another of your fucktard politician drunkards has made yet another idiotic comment, the shining example of British politics that he is? Is that your point?

Still can't believe you're thinking anyone outside your nation gives a fuck about your politics. We will forget all these names by May 2019, and good riddance, too. It's bad enough that I remember the Prime Ministers, let alone fucking douchbags like Farage, Johnsson and this Reese-Mogg dunce.

This has nothing to do with, well, anything. Anyway I hope you feel better for getting this... er... rant off of your chest.

You know that the EU doesn't care what the UK thinks an authorised signatory is, right? If it's not a Veterinarian with a certificate from the EU, it won't fly. Do you think the EU let's just anyone sign documents for border inspections? Is that how the UK intends to control its borders? I can just waltz in there and go "Here, I just wrote it on paper, I am the new Chancellor of Germany, please let me in." and they believe it?

Other countries are trading with each other under WTO rules or within trade agreements. And everything that isn't covered by trade agreements is getting checked at customs. Might surprise you, since you've been spoiled in the EU, but yeah.. custom checks still exist.

Those are EU rules. No, I do not think that EU allows just anyone to sign documents there is a clue in the words authorised and signatory as to who is allowed or authorised to sign off the relevant paperwork.

Again try responding to what has been written and instead of making things up I know that you find it easier to argue against your made up nonsense but it really is a waste of everyone's time including your own.

Oh and you do know that if you actually took some time to listen to others and tried to understand the topic at hand, instead of assuming that you know better than everyone else, it wouldn't seem so scary and you wouldn't need to be so angry and sweary all the time?

[AeneasBK]

So, does anyone here understand what that means? What is an authorised signatory?

I'm guessing here; but it's someone who has been trained in the specific border related animal checks; but isn't actually a fully licensed vet. So they do some minor qualification so they can sign off on exports/imports and check livestock for anything necessary; but if you brought them your pet dog because it keeps sneezing they wouldn't know where to start.

[Deleted]

May pretty much saying withdrawal agreement is closed and she's focusing now on the future relationship.

le reality.

[Pann]

There are rumours going around that the Cons are going to have a confidence vote and if successful Johnson will become leader with Rees-Mogg as chancellor! Yikes!

[Pann]

I guess he feels comfortable at this point that he can lay all the blame on May and just go for hard Brexit by default. But even if they have a confidence vote, what are the chances it will be successful?

I guess so, I always thought of him as the type that snipes from the sidelines. I honestly have no idea whether a confidence vote would be successful or not but if Johnson and Rees-Mogg are the alternatives I really hope May can cling on.

[Dizzeeyooo]

So, does anyone here understand what that means? What is an authorised signatory?

the solution to the no deal veterinarian shortage bouncing around the UK government is to quickly authorise lots of people who are not trained veterinarians to do the job, and just hope that the eu/rest of the world (who expect fully trained veterinarians to be carrying out the checks) do not complain too much / that there are no animal health issues as a result of unqualified people carrying out checks

It is probably mentioned separately because at some point it HAD to be a vet but then the industry was deregulated and anyone with a reasonable level of knowledge and the proper certification can now be authorised.

the deregulation hasn't happened yet, the UK government is proposing the deregulation as a solution to the inevitable shortage that would be a result of no deal

[Teleros]

There are rumours going around that the Cons are going to have a confidence vote and if successful Johnson will become leader with Rees-Mogg as chancellor! Yikes!

More seriously, I'm definitely sceptical of that rumour - the Mogg has had no ministerial experience up until now, so I'd be very surprised if he went from zero to second-only-to-PM in one go. The Tories also have to vote on their new leader, and traditionally the front runner has rarely won the vote (see: Theresa May :P ). The Mogg has repeatedly said he doesn't want the job of PM, and whilst BoJo definitely does, he's also the front-runner, so... crossing my fingers but won't be surprised if someone else gets the top job.

Anyway, I've had a little glance over the news, and it looks like the 1922 Committee (the group that will officially call the leadership contest) has not had the 48 required letters yet, so May is still PM. Meanwhile, Corbyn has said Labour will vote against the deal, and May is saying there will be no more negotiating, so a no deal Brexit is looking likelier by the day*.

*I still expect Remoaners in the Tory party to try and pull a last-minute Norway-style deal or something with the EU mind you.

[Dizzeeyooo]

There are rumours going around that the Cons are going to have a confidence vote and if successful Johnson will become leader with Rees-Mogg as chancellor! Yikes!

stop reading trash like the express

[dribbles]

May pretty much saying withdrawal agreement is closed and she's focusing now on the future relationship.

le reality.

Nothing the Maybot says agrees, or signs today, will matter or remain intact or be valid a month from now. EU be warned....

There are rumours going around that the Cons are going to have a confidence vote and if successful Johnson will become leader with Rees-Mogg as chancellor! Yikes!

Some say yikes, the majority say yippeee!

I guess he feels comfortable at this point that he can lay all the blame on May and just go for hard Brexit by default. But even if they have a confidence vote, what are the chances it will be successful?

There will be two no confidence votes, 90% chance one of those will be successful. Again yippeeee for the will of the people.

Tick tock.