View Poll Results: 10 days left, what'll it be?

Voters
92. You may not vote on this poll
  • Hard Brexit (crash out)

    45 48.91%
  • No Brexit (Remain by revoking A50)

    24 26.09%
  • Withdrawal Agreement (after a new session is called)

    0 0%
  • Extension + Withdrawal Agreement

    3 3.26%
  • Extension + Crashout

    9 9.78%
  • Extension + Remain

    11 11.96%
  1. #18581
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    That's certainly not the way every one of my former LibDem voting friends felt after 2010 - something something tuition fees something... (Granted they would have been of an age where university would have been recent memory). Maybe not so much the lying into government but the betrayal part seems spot on. You could argue that there were no alternatives for them at the time or that the feeling of betrayal is ultimately unjustified; but that ship very much has sailed...
    Sure - but what choice did they have? They were in coalition. They won some battles and lost others. But, yep, that ship sailed and Cameron had his second ministry (with a Tory majority) and wasn't that a wonderful thing!

    There's a certain amount of cutting off of noses to spite faces on the centre left. I've always thought this. Who was the real enemy for all the LD voters who ditched them in 2015? Did they go back to voting Labour? Coz that didn't work, did it.

  2. #18582
    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    Sure - but what choice did they have? They were in coalition. They won some battles and lost others. But, yep, that ship sailed and Cameron had his second ministry (with a Tory majority) and wasn't that a wonderful thing!

    There's a certain amount of cutting off of noses to spite faces on the centre left. I've always thought this. Who was the real enemy for all the LD voters who ditched them in 2015? Did they go back to voting Labour? Coz that didn't work, did it.
    I mean, I don't get the idea that just because LD were unable to enact their manifesto due to being the small end of a coalition, suddenly people had to abandon the principles that lead them to vote Lib Dem in the first place but that's probably because I see things as too simplistic. Sure they failed to get their cap or freeze or removal of tuition fees through (or w/e the precise issue there was) but does that suddenly mean that one changes their personal politics to support another party? Confused me, anyway.

    So yeah, nit-wits the lot of them, disappointed or otherwise imo.
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    Damnit hubcap, you are such a retard.
    Quote Originally Posted by mojusk View Post
    Oh, and stop being a "didn't do that in vanilla"-police. If we're doing something now that we didnt do back then, it's not because we had some sorta unwritten moral code back then, it's because we hadn't thought of it yet.

  3. #18583
    Quote Originally Posted by AeneasBK View Post
    That's certainly not the way every one of my former LibDem voting friends felt after 2010 - something something tuition fees something... (Granted they would have been of an age where university would have been recent memory). Maybe not so much the lying into government but the betrayal part seems spot on. You could argue that there were no alternatives for them at the time or that the feeling of betrayal is ultimately unjustified; but that ship very much has sailed...
    Problem was the only stable government that could have happened at the time was Conservative leading with LD following. The only other combination that could have worked would have been Labour/LD/Extremely hated at the time south of the border SNP and a few others. It simply put wouldn't have worked especially since Gordon Brown at the time was hated.

    LD could only been there basically be there to basically pull back the worst of the Tory shit. Which we have seen since they were punished by the electorate is that the Tories when left to run as a majority of their own are absolutely psychotic. Sad thing is that it seems many LD voters ended up punishing LD by voting Conservative for some reason or voting Labour in a place Labour never had a chance.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    There's a certain amount of cutting off of noses to spite faces on the centre left. I've always thought this. Who was the real enemy for all the LD voters who ditched them in 2015? Did they go back to voting Labour? Coz that didn't work, did it.
    Seems to be an issue not just here but elsewhere. The right seems to be unified while the left seems to be stumbling over each other saying "They're not left enough so they're really rightists neo libz." or some shit like that by the far left and the centre left pointing out the far left isn't as electable and some even would rather vote centre right than far left.

  4. #18584
    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post



    No. The Lib Dems did not lie their way into government nor did they betray their voters. This is explicitly & comprehensively untrue.

    The truth is: a LD-Lab coalition was unworkable. The LDs were in a coalition with the Tories and stopped the worst excesses of Cameron's first ministry.

    - The allocation of 0.7% of GDP to International Development, both in practice and as law
    - The raising of the Income Tax personal allowance from £6475 to £10,600
    - Steve Webb delivered the “triple lock” on the State Pension
    - Nick Clegg saw through the pupil premium of (eventually) £1320 per primary school child and £935 for secondary children to reduce the attainment gap in England and Wales
    - A £2.5 billion banking levy
    - Free school meals for infant-school children and in the first three years in primary school in England
    - Vince Cable vetoed a proposed “fire-at-will” employment law
    - Stopping welfare cuts and ensuring benefits kept up with inflation
    - Same sex marriage legislation
    - 15 hours free child care for disadvantaged children
    - Prohibition of the export of chemicals to where it is known they may be used to carry out the death penalty
    - 5p charge on plastic bags.
    Yes, Clegg used to bring up lists of stuff like this. No one believed him, because it was impossible to tell whether these were measures he had fought for or just concessions to the centre-ground that Cameron wanted to keep the right of his own party in check.

    I have to say though that list is extraordinarily weak. Like, I have a hard time understanding why any liberal could possibly mention welfare in that context. Maybe in some obsessively literal/legal sense welfare cuts were "stopped" but no one working in or dependent on the system could possibly sanction that sentiment.

    2010-15 led to some of the cruelest welfare changes in post-war British history. Thousands of people died for example, because they were thrown off disability benefit. Many people were forced into effectively working for a pound an hour through the imposition of US-style workfare.

    On a personal level I saw some of the worst changes. A lifelong friend of mine who had a steel rod in her back had her benefits contested - she's been in crippling pain all her life. She's dead now-thanks Nick. My brother's girlfriend who has a serious neurological problems had her benefits removed and is now entirely dependent financially and physically on my brother. There are other stories where the effects of government policy had more complex and nuanced effects that nonetheless inflicted great misery on my friends and family than for other than to save a pittance for the sake of some meaningless statistic uttered to an indifferent audience by some government spin doctor.

    I honestly can't understand how any one with a soul could possibly have supported any aspect of that government. The Tories perspective is at least comprehensible-they simply enjoy the suffering they inflict on people for its own sake, at least that is consistent.

    Btw As someone who was claiming benefits at the time I'd happily pay income tax on my current income over and above the 6-10k bracket to help the vulnerable. The difference between earning a little and nothing is like night and day.

  5. #18585
    Can Nick tuition fees Clegg even be a true Lib Dem on a multi-million dollar salary at facebook? I suppose he's making sure they pay their fair share of taxes isn't he?

  6. #18586
    Quote Originally Posted by starwalp View Post
    I honestly can't understand how any one with a soul could possibly have supported any aspect of that government.
    Because the alternative was to have one or more additional elections right at the time when the financial crisis was screwing the UK over.

  7. #18587
    Quote Originally Posted by poilotha View Post
    And? All that government did was make the problem much worse by continuing to hand over money to the banks at the expense of the poor.
    And if the money didn't go to the banks from the government they would have gone to them from elsewhere. Like outstanding loans. Just because something was bad doesn't mean it couldn't be worse.

    Such things stopped basically great depression 2.0

  8. #18588
    Quote Originally Posted by poilotha View Post
    And? All that government did was make the problem much worse by continuing to hand over money to the banks at the expense of the poor.
    Why is it that the people who know nothing about a topic are always the ones who talk the most about that topic

    In other news

  9. #18589
    Quote Originally Posted by poilotha View Post
    I suspect you are trying to appear condescending to mask financial illiteracy and are now trying to change the subject.
    And I suspect you know as much about the financial crisis as Yaxley Lennon does about not getting milkshaked, but there we are.

  10. #18590
    Quote Originally Posted by poilotha View Post
    I further suspect you are going to continue with your dumb-as-shit one sentence responses
    Correct!

    Quote Originally Posted by poilotha View Post
    and pathetic attempts to divert attention away from your own ignorance with stuff about Tommy Robinson or some other bullshit.
    You don't think racists getting milkshaked is funny?

  11. #18591
    Quote Originally Posted by rathaplan View Post
    Right, so you wanted the Liberal Democrats to join the conservatives to enable the most illiberal government in living memory.

    This had to happen because otherwise a trillion pounds in Sterling would not be transferred from poor to rich via the bailout and other bank subsidies.

    That's your justification? You understand that places you to the right of many Tories some of whom opposed the bailout? So did UKIP. Why do you think you are a centrist again?
    What part of the bailout covered debt from the public in default?

  12. #18592
    Quote Originally Posted by Nymrohd View Post
    What part of the bailout covered debt from the public in default?
    I'm not sure where you think I implied that happened. Are you responding to Kallisto?

  13. #18593
    So, the three parties that want to get Brexit through all lose varying amounts of seats. The parties that are actively against Brexit gain massively. The Daily Express has a headline saying that this sends a clear message that Brexit needs to be delivered.

    Looks like dribbles isn't an outlier; the Brexit crowd genuinely are idiots.
    When challenging a Kzin, a simple scream of rage is sufficient. You scream and you leap.

    Quote Originally Posted by George Carlin
    Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
    Brexophilia: The act of rubbing yourself against dead political ideas for sexual pleasure.

  14. #18594
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    So, the three parties that want to get Brexit through all lose varying amounts of seats. The parties that are actively against Brexit gain massively. The Daily Express has a headline saying that this sends a clear message that Brexit needs to be delivered.

    Looks like dribbles isn't an outlier; the Brexit crowd genuinely are idiots.
    Watcha reckon:



    or


  15. #18595
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    So, the three parties that want to get Brexit through all lose varying amounts of seats. The parties that are actively against Brexit gain massively. The Daily Express has a headline saying that this sends a clear message that Brexit needs to be delivered.

    Looks like dribbles isn't an outlier; the Brexit crowd genuinely are idiots.
    Like I have been saying since 2016. People who I know are the biggest brexit supporters all same the same insane, bullshitty, hateful, genuinly in any other era would have been laughed into the shadows crap that Dribbles posts every time he posts.

  16. #18596
    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    edited out duplicate imgs
    Hey @Pann

    side-picking time. Watcha reckon?
    Last edited by LeGin Tufnel; 2019-05-04 at 07:42 AM.

  17. #18597
    Quote Originally Posted by LeGin Tufnel View Post
    Hey @Pann

    side-picking time. Watcha reckon?
    I see two newspapers making hay while the sun shines.

    But honestly? I think they both have a point but I think that the locals have thrown up more questions than answers. Unfortunately I suspect that neither message will be listened to and there is a good chance that May and Corbyn will, in panic, come to an agreement before suffering more embarrassment in the EP elections.

  18. #18598
    Quote Originally Posted by Huehuecoyotl View Post
    So, the three parties that want to get Brexit through all lose varying amounts of seats. The parties that are actively against Brexit gain massively. The Daily Express has a headline saying that this sends a clear message that Brexit needs to be delivered.

    Looks like dribbles isn't an outlier; the Brexit crowd genuinely are idiots.
    There were no parties representing the majority Brexit view standing in the local elections. It was about dustbins and other local issues not national ones. Brexiteers stayed at home, spoilt their ballot papers or perhaps where representation was available voted for UKIP. Turnout was probably lower than 30%, but you take that as a win if you like.

    In the meantime I have chosen who to go shout in Brussels from my local MEP candidates. And she will win. Nincompoop remainers don't stand a chance against such a quality candidate...


  19. #18599
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    /snip Widdecombe
    It is, at this point, I've lost the ability to take you seriously.

  20. #18600
    Quote Originally Posted by dribbles View Post
    In the meantime I have chosen who to go shout in Brussels from my local MEP candidates. And she will win. Nincompoop remainers don't stand a chance against such a quality candidate...

    You're pinning your hopes on a woman who was once dragged across the Strictly dance floor like a wet mop by Anton Du Beke?

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