The Brexit aftermath thread

[Mihalik]

sip.

Blaming the failure of the Remain campaign on Cameron or Merkel is fucking asinine.

Remain failed because on one hand it couldn't dumb down its messaging to something that would fit on the side of a fucking bus (the truth is rarely as simple as catchy bullshit), because English nationalism/xenophobia peaked on the wave of the fucking idiocy that took hold of much of the English speaking world around 2016 and because Jeremy fucking Corbyn was an earthshattering fucking moron.

Brexit was the end result of a confluence of factors mostly tied into nationalism, idiocy and the overwhelming influence of decades of right wing propaganda of the Murdoch variety.

Corbyn being a fucking moron sure as shit didn't help either.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Blaming the failure of the Remain campaign on Cameron or Merkel is fucking asinine.

Remain failed because on one hand it couldn't dumb down its messaging to something that would fit on the side of a fucking bus (the truth is rarely as simple as catchy bullshit), because English nationalism/xenophobia peaked on the wave of the fucking idiocy that took hold of much of the English speaking world around 2016 and because Jeremy fucking Corbyn was an earthshattering fucking moron.

Brexit was the end result of a confluence of factors mostly tied into nationalism, idiocy and the overwhelming influence of decades of right wing propaganda of the Murdoch variety.

Corbyn being a fucking moron sure as shit didn't help either.

*Suggests that blaming Cameron or Merkel is asinine*

*Blames Corbyn*

Here's a piece of advice; if irony detectors explode in a 5 mile radius when you are drafting a post, it's probably best not to click "post reply".

[Mihalik]

*Suggests that blaming Cameron or Merkel is asinine*

*Blames Corbyn*

Here's a piece of advice; if irony detectors explode in a 5 mile radius when you are drafting a post, it's probably best not to click "post reply".

Cameron was a fucking shit head who called that dumbass referendum thinking he can play 3 dimensional chess with the lunatic fringes of British politics.

It was an abysmal epic fucking failure.

Corbyn goes on to do the exact same fucking thing, refuses to whip Labour into the remain camp, or to do what he is supposed to fucking do as the leader of the opposition. Oppose the dumbass Brexit campaign. Labour was predominantly remain leaning, much more so than Tories, but Corbyn single handedly sabotaged Labour from throwing its weight against Brexit.

He thought that he will somehow out 3 dimensional chess the Tories at their own game, in the process handing a majority to Tories down the road.

And what the fuck does Merkel have to do with the price of fish? How in the holyshit is a German politician at fault for the miserable failure of British politics.

Man, you knuckleheads are utterly incapable of taking responsibility for your own epic failures.

[jonnysensible]

corbyn died of antisemitism guys he cant hurt u now

[LeGin Tufnel]

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...and-eu-farmers

A pesticide believed to kill bees has been authorised for use in England despite an EU-wide ban on its use outdoors two years ago and an explicit government pledge to keep the restrictions.

I distinctly remember being instructed in an oh-so-sincere tone by a certain poster, now absent from the debate, that there was no evidence to suggest digressions from EU standards of this sort would ever take place.

When the UK pledged to back the 2018 EU ban on all outdoor uses of thiamethoxam, Michael Gove, then the environment secretary, said: “The weight of evidence now shows the risks neonicotinoids pose to our environment, particularly to the bees and other pollinators which play such a key part in our £100bn food industry, is greater than previously understood … We cannot afford to put our pollinator populations at risk.”

He also wrote in the Guardian: “Unless the evidence base changes again, the government will keep these restrictions in place after we have left the EU.”

I wonder how much money British Sugar has paid members of this corrupt Conservative government in backhanders?

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Personally, I don't interpret Mihalik's post as "blaming" Corbyn.

But it's all so fucking dull now, in all honesty. We're stuck with it.

Where the fuck are the people who voted for this?

Banned or deliberately avoiding debate.

[Forogil]

Corbyn goes on to do the exact same fucking thing, refuses to whip Labour into the remain camp, or to do what he is supposed to fucking do as the leader of the opposition. Oppose the dumbass Brexit campaign. Labour was predominantly remain leaning, much more so than Tories, but Corbyn single handedly sabotaged Labour from throwing its weight against Brexit.

He thought that he will somehow out 3 dimensional chess the Tories at their own game, in the process handing a majority to Tories down the road.

I got the impression that the reason was different and simpler: Corbyn himself was sort of ok with Brexit, so he didn't push for remain.

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corbyn died of antisemitism guys he cant hurt u now

And on a related note today is holocaust remembrance day.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Cameron was a fucking shit head who called that dumbass referendum thinking he can play 3 dimensional chess with the lunatic fringes of British politics.

It was an abysmal epic fucking failure.

Corbyn goes on to do the exact same fucking thing, refuses to whip Labour into the remain camp, or to do what he is supposed to fucking do as the leader of the opposition. Oppose the dumbass Brexit campaign. Labour was predominantly remain leaning, much more so than Tories, but Corbyn single handedly sabotaged Labour from throwing its weight against Brexit.

He thought that he will somehow out 3 dimensional chess the Tories at their own game, in the process handing a majority to Tories down the road.

And what the fuck does Merkel have to do with the price of fish? How in the holyshit is a German politician at fault for the miserable failure of British politics.

Man, you knuckleheads are utterly incapable of taking responsibility for your own epic failures.

Cameron was the man who:

a) decided to have a referendum to try and cut the legs out from under the anti-EU faction in his own party.
b) decided on the on the phrasing of the question.
c) failed to have any sensible margin in place for the vote, which should be automatic for a vote of this magnitude (say 60% on a turnout of 75%).
d) failed to make the vote legally binding, meaning that the Vote Leave cheating couldn't void the vote.
e) decided to enact the results of the vote, even though it wasn't legally binding.

But in your world, any attempt to lay blame on Cameron for this is "asinine". But blaming Corbyn, who never asked for the vote but who nonetheless capaigned on behalf of an institution he personally felt had deep flaws is perfectly reasonable.

Trust me, I'm taking your description of me as a "knucklehead" as a badge of honour. Because you clearly have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

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https://www.theguardian.com/environm...and-eu-farmers

A pesticide believed to kill bees has been authorised for use in England despite an EU-wide ban on its use outdoors two years ago and an explicit government pledge to keep the restrictions.

I distinctly remember being instructed in an oh-so-sincere tone by a certain poster, now absent from the debate, that there was no evidence to suggest digressions from EU standards of this sort would ever take place.

When the UK pledged to back the 2018 EU ban on all outdoor uses of thiamethoxam, Michael Gove, then the environment secretary, said: “The weight of evidence now shows the risks neonicotinoids pose to our environment, particularly to the bees and other pollinators which play such a key part in our £100bn food industry, is greater than previously understood … We cannot afford to put our pollinator populations at risk.”

He also wrote in the Guardian: “Unless the evidence base changes again, the government will keep these restrictions in place after we have left the EU.”

I wonder how much money British Sugar has paid members of this corrupt Conservative government in backhanders?

There's only so many times we can say "we warned you" before it gets boring. Especially when the only people left to say it to are sircaw (who will ignore it), dribbles (who will claim it will be brilliant for unspecified reasons) and pann (who will argue about what the word "bee" really means for 8 pages).

But yes, we fucking warned them. And it's taking them literally weeks to start unpicking EU regulations. They've barely let the ink in the deal dry first. Fuckers, the lot of them.

[Mihalik]

I got the impression that the reason was different and simpler: Corbyn himself was sort of ok with Brexit, so he didn't push for remain.

Which is why I blame him more than I blame Cameron.

Cameron's reckless stupidity was to be expected. He's a Tory. Corbyn's utter inability to look beyond his own personal politics and be the leader of his party and his refusal to be a political alternative to the Tories is mind numbing.

The entire British political class and the British public themselves were miserable failures on this topic.

These shitty attempts to shift blame to foreigners or 1 specific Tory politician is just more of the same bullshit that lead to Brexit in the first place.

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sip.

Last I fucking checked the UK wasn't a one party state.

Nobody is giving Cameron a free pass for the string of stupid decisions he made, but attempting to have all the blame shifted onto him is just a shitty attempt to whitewash the record of systemic failures across the board.

Cameron made one dumb move after the other, and Corbyn instead of mounting an opposition either straight up went along with it, or sabotaged attempts to contain the damage that was being done.

For much of the 2015 to 2018 period there were enough Tory backbenchers who would have aligned themselves with Labour on remain issues, only if Corbyn would have committed Labour to remain.

Cameron, May and Johnson didn't exist in a vacuum. Corbyn was their greatest enabler.

[jonnysensible]

Which is why I blame him more than I blame Cameron.

Cameron's reckless stupidity was to be expected. He's a Tory. Corbyn's utter inability to look beyond his own personal politics and be the leader of his party and his refusal to be a political alternative to the Tories is mind numbing.

The entire British political class and the British public themselves were miserable failures on this topic.

These shitty attempts to shift blame to foreigners or 1 specific Tory politician is just more of the same bullshit that lead to Brexit in the first place.

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Last I fucking checked the UK wasn't a one party state.

Nobody is giving Cameron a free pass for the string of stupid decisions he made, but attempting to have all the blame shifted onto him is just a shitty attempt to whitewash the record of systemic failures across the board.

Cameron made one dumb move after the other, and Corbyn instead of mounting an opposition either straight up went along with it, or sabotaged attempts to contain the damage that was being done.

For much of the 2015 to 2018 period there were enough Tory backbenchers who would have aligned themselves with Labour on remain issues, only if Corbyn would have committed Labour to remain.

Cameron, May and Johnson didn't exist in a vacuum. Corbyn was their greatest enabler.

labour under corybn only had a tangible moment where they had any power. When the rebels/lib dems/snp and the one green could have not allowed johnson to have an election.

the lib dems and snp essentially gave away all of that power. the snp so they could wipe the lib dems out and take seats and the lib dem (and whatever that change shit was) were the arrogant fantasists who thought they could change the world.

to put any of this on labours doorstep is frankly bullshit.

sure corbyn is a disingenuous pussy who spent too much time watching presstv and russia today but this was a tory project voted for by a tory electorate.

[Kallisto]

labour under corybn only had a tangible moment where they had any power. When the rebels/lib dems/snp and the one green could have not allowed johnson to have an election.

the lib dems and snp essentially gave away all of that power. the snp so they could wipe the lib dems out and take seats and the lib dem (and whatever that change shit was) were the arrogant fantasists who thought they could change the world.

to put any of this on labours doorstep is frankly bullshit.

sure corbyn is a disingenuous pussy who spent too much time watching presstv and russia today but this was a tory project voted for by a tory electorate.

Corbyn at any point in the summer and autumn of 2019 could have just said "I will work with the other groups to put in a temporary compromise PM in place for the deal and second vote and then will run as labour leader in the general election that follows." ther job done, politically smart and basically would have saved the union.

His ego wouldn't allow it and here we are.

[jonnysensible]

Corbyn at any point in the summer and autumn of 2019 could have just said "I will work with the other groups to put in a temporary compromise PM in place for the deal and second vote and then will run as labour leader in the general election that follows." ther job done, politically smart and basically would have saved the union.

His ego wouldn't allow it and here we are.

two words for you, chucka $ swinson

[Mormolyce]

I will say that the intractable nature of modern political parties is mostly responsible for a real alternative to Brexit being unavailable. Obviously both parties had a problem because Brexit was not a simply partisan topic that was already accomodated into party structure - what needed to happen was a drastic realignment of parties along the Brexit axis and that simply couldn't happen fast enough.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Last I fucking checked the UK wasn't a one party state.

Nobody is giving Cameron a free pass for the string of stupid decisions he made, but attempting to have all the blame shifted onto him is just a shitty attempt to whitewash the record of systemic failures across the board.

Cameron made one dumb move after the other, and Corbyn instead of mounting an opposition either straight up went along with it, or sabotaged attempts to contain the damage that was being done.

For much of the 2015 to 2018 period there were enough Tory backbenchers who would have aligned themselves with Labour on remain issues, only if Corbyn would have committed Labour to remain.

Cameron, May and Johnson didn't exist in a vacuum. Corbyn was their greatest enabler.

I love how you snip out my response so that you can utterly ignore all of the actual content while you go off on another of your reality defying rants. I get it, you don't like Corbyn. But blaming him for Brexit is far more asinine than blaming Cameron, and I have no idea why you've got this one so wrong.

Oh, and as far as the whole "there were enough Tory backbenchers", nice try rewriting history there. Go back through the timeline. Go back to the points where it got to potentially significant votes; realise that EVERY time it got to the point where something could have been done the Tories rallied behind their own with enough support from Labour MPs representing districts that were heavily Brexit to ensure the boulder kept rolling.

Talk me through what Corbyn could have done differently in those circumstances? Threatened those MPs with taking away the whip? They still would have been MPs, and they still would have voted the same way.

You want to spread the blame, I'm perfectly happy with part of it being spread to those Labour MPs that effectively supported this shit. Because they were more worried about "representing" the views of their voters than they were protecting them from their own mistakes. They needed to have the guts to risk their cushy jobs and to choose country over those jobs. They picked their job and largely ended up losing them anyway as the Red Wall crumbled.

"Corbyn was their greatest enabler" is utter nonsense. Apart from your own blinkered feelings, you can't point to any actual evidence that this is remotely true. Because it doesn't exist outside the fantasies you've concocted in your own head.

[Crispin]

So we're just killing bees again now? Brexit.... benefit? Someone will have to explain that one to me.

Should be doing the fucking opposite and doing our best to, you know, not kill them.

More Brexit benefits

https://www.euroweeklynews.com/2021/...l-with-uk/amp/

JOE BIDEN Hints At No Trade Deal Unless The UK Rejoins The EU in new trade blow to Boris Johnson

New American President, Joe Biden, unlike his predecessor Donald Trump, is anti-Brexit and has always said that he will prefer to do trade deals with the EU bloc, as opposed to doing a special deal with the UK.

[Veggie50]

Which is why I blame him more than I blame Cameron.

Cameron's reckless stupidity was to be expected. He's a Tory. Corbyn's utter inability to look beyond his own personal politics and be the leader of his party and his refusal to be a political alternative to the Tories is mind numbing.

The entire British political class and the British public themselves were miserable failures on this topic.

These shitty attempts to shift blame to foreigners or 1 specific Tory politician is just more of the same bullshit that lead to Brexit in the first place.

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Last I fucking checked the UK wasn't a one party state.

Nobody is giving Cameron a free pass for the string of stupid decisions he made, but attempting to have all the blame shifted onto him is just a shitty attempt to whitewash the record of systemic failures across the board.

Cameron made one dumb move after the other, and Corbyn instead of mounting an opposition either straight up went along with it, or sabotaged attempts to contain the damage that was being done.

For much of the 2015 to 2018 period there were enough Tory backbenchers who would have aligned themselves with Labour on remain issues, only if Corbyn would have committed Labour to remain.

Cameron, May and Johnson didn't exist in a vacuum. Corbyn was their greatest enabler.

“I’m not the only one to blame for stealing this bike. The owner is even more to blame for not using a good enough lock, and the police even more for not stopping me from committing the crime. MY stupidity and bad behaviour is to be expected. Shame on you!”

[sircaw]

So we're just killing bees again now? Brexit.... benefit? Someone will have to explain that one to me.

Should be doing the fucking opposite and doing our best to, you know, not kill them.

The UK, however, has now joined EU countries including Belgium, Denmark and Spain in signing emergency authorisations for its use, according to the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Defra).

It seems its not just about Brexit either, some eu countries are doing it too.
shame on them all tbh.

[shimerra]

More Brexit benefits

https://www.euroweeklynews.com/2021/...l-with-uk/amp/

@dribbles oh dear god please explain to me how this is a good thing.


I'll admit I was wrong. Even with Trump being pro-brexit I figured he'd be nastier in negotiations but Biden is showing you why the UK alone is about to get bent over a table.

[sircaw]

Sweet Jesus, what is the EU doing in regards to their vaccine program or lack of it.

It's beyond shameful the way they are acting, and now threatening to basically steal/stop hijack supplies destined for the UK. They signed their contract three months late and now they are in total panic mode trying to blame other people for their lack of planning.

I even see Yahoo news and channel 4 were criticizing them last night and those are places where the Eu in the past could do no wrong.

Trying to blame others for their own incompetence, how do you people feel about this, are you happy with the way the Eu is acting, the Eu is basically being compared to china.

the UK has done made a lot of mistakes over the last year, but their vaccine program seems to be for all set and purposes, very on track.

I was surprised that no one here has commented on this, or criticized the EU for their poor planning and putting so many lives at risk?

[Huehuecoyotl]

Sweet Jesus, what is the EU doing in regards to their vaccine program or lack of it.

It's beyond shameful the way they are acting, and now threatening to basically steal/stop hijack supplies destined for the UK. They signed their contract three months late and now they are in total panic mode trying to blame other people for their lack of planning.

I even see Yahoo news and channel 4 were criticizing them last night and those are places where the Eu in the past could do no wrong.

Trying to blame others for their own incompetence, how do you people feel about this, are you happy with the way the Eu is acting, the Eu is basically being compared to china.

the UK has done made a lot of mistakes over the last year, but their vaccine program seems to be for all set and purposes, very on track.

I was surprised that no one here has commented on this, or criticized the EU for their poor planning and putting so many lives at risk?

My understanding is that the EU have signed a contract that gives them first delivery of the vaccine, regardless of where it's made. Including the site in the UK. They've released details of the contract they signed showing this, for transparency. The UK, in the meantime, refuse to release details of the contract they signed, citing "national security".

That leads me to presume that the UK either messed up their contract, and didn't ensure that they are first in line for production, or the distributers refused to give the UK such a clause because they knew that the EU (their bigger customer by far) was going to demand it.

So it's likely going to either be incompotence on the part of the Tories (always a possibility, and they have a track record of fucking up pretty much everything Covid related) or the fact that we're simply a small fish compared to the EU since Brexit. Toss a coin, really.

Either way, we will be blaming Brexit voters that gave us both Brexit itself and the Tories that brought us it. Taking back control, eh?

[sircaw]

Because it has nothing to do with Brexit or the UK? And the fact there is a dedicated thread already for COVID and the efforts regarding fighting it?

So what's your stance on the way the EU is acting.

you had a stance the other day on the bees although that had nothing to do with Brexit? Remember the other countries doing the same thing in the eu.

Remember to be Fair, thanks.

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My understanding is that the EU have signed a contract that gives them first delivery of the vaccine, regardless of where it's made. Including the site in the UK. They've released details of the contract they signed showing this, for transparency. The UK, in the meantime, refuse to release details of the contract they signed, citing "national security".

That leads me to presume that the UK either messed up their contract, and didn't ensure that they are first in line for production, or the distributers refused to give the UK such a clause because they knew that the EU (their bigger customer by far) was going to demand it.

So it's likely going to either be incompotence on the part of the Tories (always a possibility, and they have a track record of fucking up pretty much everything Covid related) or the fact that we're simply a small fish compared to the EU since Brexit. Toss a coin, really.

Either way, we will be blaming Brexit voters that gave us both Brexit itself and the Tories that brought us it. Taking back control, eh?

The EU did not sign a contract till three months later, and they are still trying to authorize the use of the vaccine atm, its not even cleared atm.

So channel four news must be totally wrong according to you.