Hunters need a complete rework

[Heavens Night]

. Do not assume people actions with "motive". People raiding as MM want to optimise there DPS.."want" has nothing to do with. Lone wolf maxizmizes dps, therefor all raiders go lone wolf.



Don't assume you know peoples motives just because of there actions. I for one, was MM all HFC running lone wolf and hated it. I am not a special snowflake (although i like to think so), where there is one there are 1000s.

Again you're completely missing the point.
I do not assume anybody motives. Just from reading this thread it's clear people want a Hunter spec without a pet. MM now has that. It's that simple.
You can get butt hurt all you like about it.

There are people that like it and people that do not.

[Banard]

Again you're completely missing the point.
I do not assume anybody motives. Just from reading this thread it's clear people want a Hunter spec without a pet. MM now has that. It's that simple.
You can get butt hurt all you like about it.

There are people that like it and people that do not.

The issue is one effects the other while the other does not.

I rolled a hunter over a decade ago and had 3 range specs with pets to choose from.

Now so people have choice...i have 1 range spec with a pet, 1 range spec without a pet and a fucking melee spec.

I have lost 2 out of 3 specs.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I don't mind the current state of MM and survival, but BM surely needs something... perhaps just better and more fitting animations. :P

The bm anitmations are horrible you just stand there telling and waving your arms like a mad man.

[FAILoZOFF]

No, there should be a choice, as there is now. I like MM for that choice. Can't speak for the other two specs personally.

You know that this isn't true. Saying that it's an option just because there's a talent for it is just stupid as I would claim that you ALWAYS (yeah even in vanilla+) had an option to be petless MM as all you needed to do was to dismiss your pet.
Pet itself doesn't have to deal all that much damage either. It could be mostly utility +some minor damage. When I run as MM It means I want my shots to hit.... HARD. I don't want to give up 20% of my damage for "privilege" to have nearly useless pet.
Perhaps I could give up autoshots in order to let my pet deal that "autoattack" form of damage. Then It would make sense to have a choice between melee auto attacks that continue to deal damage while you can't but as all melee suffer on movement heavy encounters or take "instant" (no travel time) auto attacks which in turn have that drawback that they don't deal any damage while I can't... well auto shoot.
And I don't speak here about purely damage loss either. Like, right now, there is literally no reason to run MM with pet. Fact that it is a damage loss is one thing, which for instance in PvP is even bigger as pet can be CCd, slowed to no end or simply "get lost", but also MM doesn't just have any interaction with that pet because at one point Blizzard decided it to design that way. That's why I will always oppose people in flavor of "petless MM". Again, as with BM double pet case, this isn't just a "flavor" but a much greater gamechanger that people are really seeing it as, especially in PvP.
Blizzard tried out recently... IN LEGION, to to turn marksman HUNTERS into "ranger/sniper" alike, purely ranged attacks, no pet, no traps, no "huntery" toolkit. Needless to say... I don't count that as success.

[Epileptica]

The bm anitmations are horrible you just stand there telling and waving your arms like a mad man.

This ^^ - Thank you!

[shade3891]

The bm anitmations are horrible you just stand there telling and waving your arms like a mad man.

What's wrong with waving your hands? :P

[threads]

The bm anitmations are horrible you just stand there telling and waving your arms like a mad man.

don't forget the random animals flying out of your ass every 4 sec. BM looks so dumb now I hate it.

[alfavhunter]

All 3 hunter specs are a joke right now

BM has absurd downtime
MM has garbage mechanics for mobility, target swapping, and aoe. Basically to much RNG marked shot would have been better as a CD ability that enhanced our next arcane or multi shot to provide vulnerable, but they had to tie it into RNG, on RNG on RNG, for both our single target and aoe... Hunters went from one of the most mobile dps classes to one of the least in a night, and lone wolf is a joke of a talent because it's not a choice, it's pick this or you lose 5-10% dps (depending on how much you have to move), in a pure stationary fight it's a 5% dps loss to not chose lone wolf but hay it's ok to blantedly over tuned a talent so you can skew data to say people love it right? (Hint this happened in WoD with the talent as well)

And SV, I don't like melee but from what I've seen it's a hot mess that doesn't even know what it is, is it a melee BM? Is it an explosives expert? Maybe it's a rouge with a pet (why is camo not baseline for all hunter specs again a d why is BM unable to even talent into camo???, Let alone the fact it's competing with CC talents which makes no sense...)

Things that need to change BM needs a more active role in fights, meaning more shots, more bonded interaction with the pet (focus fire?) And less screaming and pulling random animals out of our ass

MM needs RNG to only be in feel good RNG mechanics, like lock and load, it feels good to get a proc, marked shot proc feel horrible and is the reason the sidewinders build was used, it killed the RNG (and sidewinders visually does not fit MM at all), and let it be mobile again, make our mastery be bonus critical strike damage while standing still or something for those big numbers but not be over reliant on it

And SV, focus it in on it's theme more, a theme, not 5 all bunched together

For example

Make flanking strike have a 30 second CD, make mongoose increase the flanking strike damage by 100% per stack and the duration is 15 seconds consumed on flanking still up to 5 stacks and raptor strike is our normal focus dump now, make butchery baseline and consume 20-100 focus increasing damage per more focus available, and go from there for talents

The problem with legion hunter is they spend 80% of Thier time on SV, there BM and MM together in a rush, and couldn't decide what to make SV because there is already to many melee specs, oh and disengage was removed from SV so it wouldn't play to much like DH... Then put back in as a talent... Hunters got shafted in legion, not BM, MM or SV, all 3 specs got shafted from being left with no time for real development (BM,MM) or being changed 5 times because it encrouched to much on the play style of a different melee class (SV)

[Youn]

If I was to rework Marksman. The following would happen:

1. Lone wolf would become baseline with the ability to summon a pet removing the buff while pet alive. (AK WoD version)
2. Black Arrow would move to slot 1 of tier 15.
3. A murder of crows would move to slot 2 of tier 30
4. Sentinel would change to targetable on mob. It would then put a large reticle area effect that follows the mob of the same bird effect
5. Explosive shot would be fire and forget.
6. Sidewinders would move to slot 1 of tier 90
7. Create level 100 talent Mobile Archer which takes slot 1 of tier 100. Allows firing Aimed shot while moving.
8. Windburst becomes baseline.

This in theory, would give us real options based on the fight.

[ydraw]

I never said such thing, but it strikes me as a bit odd when the hunter class was literally always about having a beast pet and then suddenly not only is it ok to not have a pet (something which I would be fine with) but it's also the best choice numbers wise?

Hunter is not about having a pet for a lot of us.

Hunter is the only archer class available in the game. Many more people play hunter for that reason than play hunter because they want a pet.

[Youn]

I personally, hate being moral support for my pet. IE BMs 70% pet/30% hunter damage.....

[Deleted]

They don't care and aren't competent enough, save yourself the trouble and reroll/quit if you still believe its a mess.

Yeah incompetent for sure, forums cant fix that. Thats why i did quit 2 months ago, came to take a look here to see if they made any fixes but man they suck thankfully i had some fun when the fire frenzy spec was viable at the end of nh.. i feel bad for you guys for waiting a miracle though tbh

[Crimsonfiend76]

There is no choice. You never see MM hunter with a pet. Your choice is an illusion.

The original choice was play a pet class or play something else. They should of left it at that.

I don't begrudge those hunters that don't want to play with a pet, but back when I started back in BC, hunters and warlocks were unique classes that were tied to having pets, and all the pros and cons that went with it. If anything, I would agree that for something inherently cosmetic should be addressed as such, by adding either a glyph or in the first level of talents give the option of having rapid fire with a spec-reduced cd and all shots outside of it would hit harder but have a to compensate for no pets (lack of target switching and negligible pet damage) with either a movement penalty or longer cast time of all their shots. If that option is too complicated, then fine keep the damage buff but make it as minor as the pet's damage would be...something closer to a 2-3% buff.

There has to be more balanced trade off by going pet-less than to get a flat damage buff which then ruins it for those like myself who initially rolled this class and a lock for the expressed interest in playing with a pet.

[MatadorMedia]

Blizzard announced at BlizzCon that Survival would be revamped again, along with Warlock Demonology. The other specs would just get some tweaks. They are already fixing it so why all the raging?

- - - Updated - - -

The bm anitmations are horrible you just stand there telling and waving your arms like a mad man.

Haha. This is true though. And yelling, too!

[FlubberPuddy]

Hunter is not about having a pet for a lot of us.

Hunter is the only archer class available in the game. Many more people play hunter for that reason than play hunter because they want a pet.

Pretty much this.

Look at all the Notable Hunters in WoW. Almost all of them do not have pets/aren't showcased with having pets. https://wow.gamepedia.com/Hunter

Because what people actually want to play are a Bow wielding class, they have just been stuck with Hunters w/pets for decades because it's easier for developers to pack-in Bow wielders with pets (they get two crowds, bow lovers and pet lovers) rather than come out with a Bow class no pet and Bow class w/pet.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Pretty much this.

Look at all the Notable Hunters in WoW. Almost all of them do not have pets/aren't showcased with having pets. https://wow.gamepedia.com/Hunter

Because what people actually want to play are a Bow wielding class, they have just been stuck with Hunters w/pets for decades because it's easier for developers to pack-in Bow wielders with pets (they get two crowds, bow lovers and pet lovers) rather than come out with a Bow class no pet and Bow class w/pet.

you do know lore characters aren't the same as playable classes right? most of the people on that list are not the same kind of hunters we are if hunters at all.

[threads]

having a petless spec would be a non-issue if they left SV alone. mm petless archer, sv archer with pet, bm lots of pets.

[Crudence]

I miss old survival. I loved that spec. I also liked MM. Never been a big fan of BM for other than soloing old content and such. The only good improvement I see in todays hunter is the fact you can opt out of having a pet. Other than that I liked the old way it was. In cata I had so much fun on a hunter. Now, I barely play it, none of the specs seems fun. They have lost the magic that drew me to them. I really want the cata survival back. One of my favorite specs on any class ever.

[JaoStar]

My biggest problem with hunters is just that, they are hunters instead of archers. I do agree that out of all the classes they seem the most jagged to play. I got one at lvl 85 and it's like cutting teeth so far. I hope it pays off in the end.

[Niroshi]

I don't really want to see the modern melee Survival go away, it needs to be refined. I want to see the old Survival brought back as a 4th spec, or a viable alternative to the current MM playstyle within that spec.