KJ Nerfs

[Achilles55]

Gettin to 940 equipped with optimized gear without raiding mythic is VERY HARD. Of course you can if you are super lucky and start gettin 950 tier pieces off hc, 940 reliqued pieces, weekly m+ chest pieces 940+ that isnt useless shit but with the exactly best stats and pieces not used by tier set (you have 4p?).


This isnt a matter of opinion because math has no opinions, its math, and its a FACT you wont get to 940/4p set/bis stats without an insane luck.

Well my armory is linked in my mmoc signature so look for yourself. Just because you write the word "fact" in all caps doesn't make it so.

[Emerald Archer]

Uhhh, isn't that counterproductive? If someone has a slightly higher bag ilvl than worn, doesn't it indicate that they know better than to just wear the highest ilvl pieces? Especially with Arcano and Convergence as mentioned, or a class forced to use Nighthold 2p (ww monk) or god forbid 4p (rdruid).

That's an interesting way to look at it. Yeah it is a way to show players semi-know how to gear.

[ReD-EyeD]

Gettin to 940 equipped with optimized gear without raiding mythic is VERY HARD.

I like that you're pointing this, but you need to add that it's VERY HARD for DPS and not that hard for tanks or healers. For tanks you don't really care that much about dps and stat value spread is not as big (mostly) as dps classes and you actually have 2 additional stats to care - Stamina and Armor which goes with ilvl.

[Deleted]

Well my armory is linked in my mmoc signature so look for yourself. Just because you write the word "fact" in all caps doesn't make it so.

You are one of those few specs that can do well with 2p, you realize that just by making you use 4p you'd lose 4 levels right?

Not to mention you got a normal 945 head (+45 levels), a 930 relinquished trinket (+20), 2x 935 rings and 935 neck all with the right stats for you.

If that's not being very lucky then you tell me what it is.

Oh btw, I'm 947 equipped as main, 938 as lock, and 935 as mage, did tons of m+, full 9/9hc clears since first week of TOS, gotten every max weekly cache I could've gotten, and trust me you are lucky.

[Achilles55]

I like that you're pointing this, but you need to add that it's VERY HARD for DPS and not that hard for tanks or healers. For tanks you don't really care that much about dps and stat value spread is not as big (mostly) as dps classes and you actually have 2 additional stats to care - Stamina and Armor which goes with ilvl.

Any tank that's not complete shit will optimize for DPS so your statement here isn't entirely true.

[Emerald Archer]

"Do some basic math" Perhaps you should do some basic reading as 910 relinquished pieces were the LAST thing I listed in my gear acquisition recap. Let's recap for you kid; 2 970 legendaries, 1 950+ artifact weapon, 2 935 crafted pieces, WEEKS of 935+ pieces of gear from the week +10 chest, WEEKS of 930+ gear from greater invasions, and finally the 910+ gear from relinquished tokens. Please do a better job at paying attention to detail.

You're assuming the rng of getting multiple weeks of m+10 gear you can use, I have only gotten 2 wearable pieces. That's luck buddy.
And you're assuming you even got 1 wearable item from greater invasions. Not only do you need to get a drop (I haven't seen one yet, 2 bonus rolls used) but then you need it to be in a slot you don't have your other tiems.
And then you need to fill in with 910 gear.

Your "counter" to luck required, is things that require luck. Please mate, you don't need to get so mad as to call me "kid" it's a discussion, a debate on a forum. Nothing personal.

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Without multiple titanforge? Do you realize that it's HARDER to find people without TF than with multiple procs?

TF, Not WF. But a person over 935 who had multiple titanforge procs (nothing too excessive) would work too. Just do some napkin math and deduct the extra tf. Simple stuff.

[Achilles55]

You're assuming the rng of getting multiple weeks of m+10 gear you can use, I have only gotten 2 wearable pieces. That's luck buddy.
And you're assuming you even got 1 wearable item from greater invasions. Not only do you need to get a drop (I haven't seen one yet, 2 bonus rolls used) but then you need it to be in a slot you don't have your other tiems.
And then you need to fill in with 910 gear.

Your "counter" to luck required, is things that require luck. Please mate, you don't need to get so mad as to call me "kid" it's a discussion, a debate on a forum. Nothing personal.

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TF, Not WF. But a person over 935 who had multiple titanforge procs (nothing too excessive) would work too. Just do some napkin math and deduct the extra tf. Simple stuff.

So in over 4 months of 930+ gear from M+ weekly chests you've only gotten 2 usable pieces? I find that very hard to believe.

[ReD-EyeD]

Any tank that's not complete shit will optimize for DPS so your statement here isn't entirely true.

I never said anything about not optimizing dps. The first point that you need to reach is ~not dying~ point and only then you care about dps. It's much easier to do right now (or just running overgeared content) than heavy progression. As a paladin tank (the spikiest tank of them all) you should know it better even than I am as brewmaster.

[Emerald Archer]

So in over 4 months of 930+ gear from M+ weekly chests you've only gotten 2 usable pieces? I find that very hard to believe.

Yep! It's accurate. Because I can't replace my legendaries, all 6 tier slots, both my trinkets, the relics would have to wf or tf which they haven't, I lucked out and got a 950 neck, and 935 bracers, never got a belt, let alone one better than my 935 one with perfect stats, never got a ring with the right stats.

It's actually extremely easy to not get upgrades from m+ weekly chests when 11 of your slots are basically irreplaceable without huge TF.

[Deleted]

So in over 4 months of 930+ gear from M+ weekly chests you've only gotten 2 usable pieces? I find that very hard to believe.

935 from weekly started about 7 reset ago and you've gotten 3 pieces 935 that are actually with the perfect stats and places. Yes, thats luck, since you dont seem to understand how random those chests are.

[Achilles55]

935 from weekly started about 7 reset ago and you've gotten 3 pieces 935 that are actually with the perfect stats and places. Yes, thats luck, since you dont seem to understand how random those chests are.

935 was around 2 months ago yes but there were months of 930 before that don't forget hence me saying "930+". You're pinning way to much on luck here. My gf is a 942 arms warrior with a 938 prot pally she barely plays. I'd be happy to link those armouries too if that's too wild to believe. Gearing in legion is a joke. I'm sorry if your loot council hasn't been kind to you but with multiple sources that just throw 930+ gear at you it's not very difficult.

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Yep! It's accurate. Because I can't replace my legendaries, all 6 tier slots, both my trinkets, the relics would have to wf or tf which they haven't, I lucked out and got a 950 neck, and 935 bracers, never got a belt, let alone one better than my 935 one with perfect stats, never got a ring with the right stats.

It's actually extremely easy to not get upgrades from m+ weekly chests when 11 of your slots are basically irreplaceable without huge TF.

If you're having to wear 6 pieces of tier gear then I can see how it would be more difficult to get upgrades for the remaining few spots but that's really a flaw in game design and players shouldn't have to wear outdated gear and trinkets to be optimal. Also it's worth noting that it's very rare for a class to wear ToS 4pc and NH 2pc so your situation is pretty unique.

[Emerald Archer]

If you're having to wear 6 pieces of tier gear then I can see how it would be more difficult to get upgrades for the remaining few spots but that's really a flaw in game design and players shouldn't have to wear outdated gear and trinkets to be optimal. Also it's worth noting that it's very rare for a class to wear ToS 4pc and NH 2pc so your situation is pretty unique.

If I got high enough pieces, say 2 940 pieces, I wouldn't have to wear the 2pc anymore. But I haven't received such luck in my tier slots yet.
But yeah I agree, it's not the best game design!

[Deleted]

935 was around 2 months ago yes but there were months of 930 before that don't forget hence me saying "930+". You're pinning way to much on luck here. My gf is a 942 arms warrior with a 938 prot pally she barely plays. I'd be happy to link those armouries too if that's too wild to believe. Gearing in legion is a joke. I'm sorry if your loot council hasn't been kind to you but with multiple sources that just throw 930+ gear at you it's not very difficult.

Dude, you seem to forget you have 2p. As i wrote earlier: you realize you go from 940 to 936 just by switching to 4p, right? And thats 936 with a very good luck. With the average luck you'd be 933ish top.

Again, i'm 9/9 on main 947, 5/9 on alt 938, just hc and no mythic on 3rd 935, ive done everything I could've without missing anything every week, ive pugged over 70 KJ hc kills most of those led by me, i perfectly know how il scaled during the months and what il have people playing the game gotten during this time, and anyone saying 940 4p/optimized stats is easy and laughable to get without mythic raiding simply has no clue about what hes talking about.

PS Our recent guldan mythic kill was with an average of 939.98 item level (with at least 3 ppl using 2p and not 4p so with 4p would be even lower), yeah, sure its easy to get to 940 without mythic man, keep repeating bs, it will still be bs. :P

[Jaylock]

Reading comprehension. The guy he quoted was talking about heroic.

I'm kinda shocked they touched heroic, but that's fine, makes it even easier for farm now for my guild.

Yeah, heroic KJ has been a joke since it came out, we killed it on week 3 since we only raid for 3 hours 1 night a week, but still, its been a one shot for us for a long time now.

[Achilles55]

Dude, you seem to forget you have 2p. As i wrote earlier: you realize you go from 940 to 936 just by switching to 4p, right? And thats 936 with a very good luck. With the average luck you'd be 933ish top.

Again, i'm 9/9 on main 947, 5/9 on alt 938, just hc and no mythic on 3rd 935, ive done everything I could've without missing anything every week, ive pugged over 70 KJ hc kills most of those led by me, i perfectly know how il scaled during the months and what il have people playing the game gotten during this time, and anyone saying 940 4p/optimized stats is easy and laughable to get without mythic raiding simply has no clue about what hes talking about.

So I'd be swapping out a 945 and 935 for a 930 and 925 tier pc to make 4 set. Not really that big of a deal. My gf is 942 in bag and 938 equipped with 4pc and bis trinkets. Once again no mythic raiding required.

[Swiftshadow]

i tink mechanics-based fights are good. Like maiden.

however, maiden was frequently unpuggable during the first 2 weeks of tos. and im ONLY talking about normal.

in fact, even now, if u are unlucky, some pug groups STILL have problems to 1-shot normal maiden!

The reason is very simple. 1 person screwing up, equals screwing up a big part of the raid, if not outright wiping.

KJ has this problem too. miss an arma soak? probably better to wipe it. rmb the early weeks of LFR KJ? I do. All I wanted was to complete a quest on my alt using LFR. Spent practically an hour there. in freaking LFR! On 1 boss!

mechanic-centric encounters are good. it encourages active participation from everyone. But i think they need to tune it slightly so that a single mistake from 1 person does not punish the whole group.

[Deleted]

So I'd be swapping out a 945 and 935 for a 930 and 925 tier pc to make 4 set. Not really that big of a deal. My gf is 942 in bag and 938 equipped with 4pc and bis trinkets. Once again no mythic raiding required.

Swapping those 2 would put you to 938, not 940. And having a 930 hc tier set is lucky (again). Not to mention you are not using your bis legendary for prot pala (head) so with that you'd lose even more itemlevel.

So even if you're lucky as you, as you can see, with the right gear you wont get to 940.

Again, I dont care if you belive me or not, but trust me in all those pugs ive led (at least 40 myself) in the last 4 months i didnt invite random morons spamming me retarded/fake achi, i actually have an addon to check their il, their 2p/4p, their progression in mythic and heroic, and belive me when i tell you that even those MANY people that I usually do runs with and that i know play a game doing everythign they can well it's VERY VERY rare to see a 940 equipped with just hc clears. Thats a lot of people I played with and maybe its not 100% accurate statistically but it gives me a pretty good idea about it.

[Achilles55]

Swapping those 2 would put you to 938, not 940. And having a 930 hc tier set is lucky (again). Not to mention you are not using your bis legendary for prot pala (head) so with that you'd lose even more itemlevel.

So even if you're lucky as you, as you can see, with the right gear you wont get to 940.

Again, I dont care if you belive me or not, but trust me in all those pugs ive led (at least 40 myself) in the last 4 months i didnt invite random morons spamming me retarded/fake achi, i actually have an addon to check their il, their 2p/4p, their progression in mythic and heroic, and belive me when i tell you that even those MANY people that I usually do runs with and that i know play a game doing everythign they can well it's VERY VERY rare to see a 940 equipped with just hc clears.

You obviously don't understand Prot Paldin if you think I'm making a mistake by not wearing helm. I have every single paladin legendary and am not using the helm by choice. The helm is BiS for survivability which I don't need since I don't mythic raid. The BiS legendaries for DPS which is what I optimize my character for are Legs->Shoulders->Sephuz. So no I would not lose my item level by wearing the legendary helm because it's useless to me.

I have 2 personal examples of 940 players who have never done mythic as well as 3 other examples of 935+ alts that have never done any raiding. You say insane luck is required and my experience has proven otherwise.

[Ebalina]

Swapping those 2 would put you to 938, not 940. And having a 930 hc tier set is lucky (again). Not to mention you are not using your bis legendary for prot pala (head) so with that you'd lose even more itemlevel.

So even if you're lucky as you, as you can see, with the right gear you wont get to 940.

Again, I dont care if you belive me or not, but trust me in all those pugs ive led (at least 40 myself) in the last 4 months i didnt invite random morons spamming me retarded/fake achi, i actually have an addon to check their il, their 2p/4p, their progression in mythic and heroic, and belive me when i tell you that even those MANY people that I usually do runs with and that i know play a game doing everythign they can well it's VERY VERY rare to see a 940 equipped with just hc clears. Thats a lot of people I played with and maybe its not 100% accurate statistically but it gives me a pretty good idea about it.

My dk alt is 935 and i've ran ToS hc like 6 times since it came out.
I have 4set but i refuse to use it cause i find it rather useless for blood dk so i run only the 2set for the versa proc.
If i had ran more then 1 m+ a week on it and more ToS id be 940+ by now.

Note neither of my 4set is higher then 915 i actually use 890 lfr legs to get my 2set because my other off pieces are better stat optimized.


So again you have no basis of telling ppl if they can/cant be 940 without mythic raiding as its proven time and time again they can.
There heroic raiders who have more ilvl then my main who is 940-941 depending on the gear choices i do when i run mythic and i'm progressing Kj on mythic.

[Deleted]

So again you have no basis of telling ppl if they can/cant be 940 without mythic raiding as its proven time and time again they can.
There heroic raiders who have more ilvl then my main who is 940-941 depending on the gear choices i do when i run mythic and i'm progressing Kj on mythic.

I'm starting to wonder if you're both just thickheaded or what.

You're on myhic kj and you're saying there are HC raiders higher il than you. Now, assuming its on even ground (4p set/optimized stats/legendaries), WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU? THAT THEY HAVE BEEN VERY LUCKY, HELLO!

Because ON AVERAGE even a retarded kid understands that someone doing just hc ON AVERAGE will have a lower level than someone doing mythic AND hc. OF COURSE, THIS DOESNT COUNT LUCK. If you are VERY LUCKY you could be even higher il just by doing only TOS normal and gettin all 955 than someone who is 9/9m and gettin "only" 935-940s.

But the POINT of the argument here is: IS IT LAUGHABLE (like someone said) to get 940 just by doing hc and with the proper 4p and everything in order? NO, IT IS NOT. PERIOD.

Some people obviously are very lucky and get there (or almost get there) but no one with a clue (hint: clue) would pretend thats actually easy to get for everyone. Most people who have been doing everything they can every week and cleared tos hc several times are around 935, thats achievable on average. 940 you need a lot of luck.