Is the Collapse of the U.S. Now Inevitable?

[dextersmith]

Why list climate change? It's not caused solely by the US. Its consequences and the corrupt political sphere is ubiquitous globally.

[Silver Forte]

All nations will collapse eventually, also citing climate change is strange because that would effect more than just the US

That was true in the past before the advent of electricity and the internet had time to settle in. We don't know how things will play out now what with once warring nations talking to each other in a civil manner over twitter.

[Raeph]

Just gonna take three things on your list:

20 trillion in Debt... - This will only be a problem if the economy stops growing. Ideally you want your government debt to GDP under 80% (some economists differ) but you don't start having real issues until Debt to GDP exceeds 125%. We are now at ~110%. It is not ideal, but we aren't about to collapse either. Japan has a government debt to GDP of ~250% and nearly no economic growth for some time now.

College/Outsources/AI leading to lay offs - Technological innovation both destroys and creates in an economy. It destroys old patterns while creating new ones. The issue is education. Prior to 1980-90 most people could plan on getting a job where there was some form of on the job training that would prepare you for the job itself as long as you had basic skills. This is no longer the case. Employers expect the applicants to come fully developed to work on the job with little to no investment into the employee. Additionally the skill sets in demand now are more technical rather than social as in past generations. People are now in the process of self-selecting educational paths, mainly away from the traditional four year college degree, to gain technical skills however time will tell if this will lead to a stable career path or if people will constantly have to relearn skill sets as technological innovation eliminates career paths while creating new ones.

Corrupt Political Sphere - Corruption in politics is nothing new. The issue is that we have elevated politicians, both on the right and the left, as "saviors" while abdicating our role in the system as thoughtful citizens. We would rather vote the "candidate I can relate to" into office rather than electing the most effective person into office. Again though this is nothing new. All through history mankind has had to deal with ineffective leaders. The only difference now is that social media allows for us to review all the nastiness of politics, in full glory, and so now we deal with disillusionment because our "saviors" are shown to be just like us; corrupt and greedy people, looking for accolades and self-promotion.

Welcome to the real world: its been like this for Centuries.

[Skroe]

Dam man, he was trying to make you look like you didn't know what you were talking about and you fell for it.

US citizens hold most of the US debt.

And if worst comes to worst, we'll default.

Carnegie said something like

"If a man borrows a thousand dollars from a bank, that's the man's problem.

If a man borrows a billion dollars from a bank, that's the bank's problem."

Half the knuckle draggers on the internet still think the US has a $10 trillion GDP like it's 2000 rather than nearing $20 trillion.

The US should tax more and cut spending on entitlements to get its books into better shape, but it's long term balance sheet outlook is good. Even with these irresponsible tax cuts, which as a matter of principle should not be passed.

[dextersmith]

by collapse, do you mean states going as independent nations or a civil insurrection against oligarchy?


fascinating enough, if california decide to be independant, it would be the 8th economy of the world, get into G8 (which i guess would be renamed G9) and could really thrive without having to shoulder the failling economy of more rural states of the US.

California, it's hollywood, it's silicon valley, it's a massive economy.

I thought it was ruled that they couldn't separate. But if they did, wouldn't they have to take 1/50 of the debt with them?

[yetgdhfgh]

Most of the US debt is privately owned by US citizens who make money from it which in turn gets taxed which goes straight back to the government.

[Vankrys]

I thought it was ruled that they couldn't separate. But if they did, wouldn't they have to take 1/50 of the debt with them?

just like Brexit, everything is negociatiable.

but yeah, the supreme court has ruled that secession from the union being unconstitutional, so the US would be within its right to send the army to quell the rebellion. California has no army to speak of. Beside, i'm pretty sure californian resident sees themselves as americans.

It was purely hypothetical, i don't think california will secede from the union, unless the US government collapse somehow.

[draynay]

It's inevitable like the heath death of the universe. A long way off.

If the universe has got to go, at least that's a delicious and toffee filled way to do it.

[McFuu]

As of right now the US is in no danger of "collapsing." The world needs the US more than the US needs the world.

If the US were to collapse in any time within the next 100 years, it would be after every other country.

[dextersmith]

China and Japan.

You think the debt is owed to China, a developing country? I heard it was literally 2 or 3 American families that the majority of the debt was owed to.

[Zan15]

• 20 trillion in debt translates to over 100k debt for every single person in the work force 155 - 160 million people.
• College debt is already skyrocketing and the price of college is still going up.
• Worker pay has stagnated over the last 20 year.
• Income inequality higher than when we separated from England.
• Job outsourcing and AI taking over is putting people out of work all over at a time when a college degree is essential for a basic job.
• Rent costs are insane and increasing.
• Climate change.
• One single accident can bankrupt a person with healthcare costs.
• Completely corrupt political sphere.
• High imprisonment rates.
• The failing economy is dividing people creating even more polarized politics and hinting at civil war.

I am not nation bashing, I am just seeing the reality of the big picture. There is no fix for the U.S. Its citizens are going to be hurting for a very long time.

Someone does not understand what 20 trillion dollars in debt actually represents.

The largest debt is to American citizens and U.S. entities — more than $14 trillion. That figure is made up of securities like Treasury bills, notes, bonds and savings bonds.

Those are due 1-3-5-10-20-30-50 years out.

a 300k loan sounds crazy when you are making 50k a year. that's 600% of your personal "GDP". But that does not stop the bank from loaning to you. lol


The only real problem i see on your list is how pay has stagnated. this is going to eventually catch up and drop this countries economy like a brick.

[Kraenen]

There are no 'inevitables' in history, much as certain idiots like to cast it as some sort of morality play.

You mean like the saying "on the right side of history" when promoting social progressivism?

[Macaquerie]

What ultimately makes America great is our ability to attract the best and brightest from around the world to contribute to our society, which as the likes of Skroe will eagerly point out, has the convenient side effect of draining all the talent from our biggest rivals like China and Russia, leaving them without the brainpower to support the masses of uneducated schmucks. However, there is also the problem of all the uneducated schmucks in our country, who didn't have to earn a pass into the US but rather were born into a vast array of privileges and entitlements that they believe to be their God-given inheritance and not to be shared with any dirty foreigners, and as this group becomes less and less relevant they will continue to further agitate and cause new problems.

[Stormspellz]

Why would the USA default on its loans? It makes no sense.

we do have a political party that likes to play games with the US's credit rating.

[schwarzkopf]

It is already there OP, things that are actually happening tend to be inevitable.

- - - Updated - - -

we do have a political party that likes to play games with the US's credit rating.

Correction - **political system**.

[Thage]

China and Japan.

Nope. Most of the debt the government owes is to its citizens. Japan hasn't been a controlling interest in the American economy since their own caved in and China buying out our economy is a boogeyman spread by talking heads with a vested interest in keeping you scared.

America will collapse someday. Even Rome fell in due time. But it's not going to happen any time soon. That's a fantasy pushed by conservatives with an apocalypse fetish and politicians who just want to create self-fulfilling prophecies in their mad dash to privatize everything to enrich themselves by outright lying to the populace the way Betsy DeVos did to destroy Detroit's public education system while having her hands in private education companies. It's a fantasy popularized by paranoid schizophrenics who think they'll be the glorious saviors of American ideals in a civil war that will never happen and who think their little military-fetish LARP party will be able to take on the US military (sustained artillery shelling says hello, to say nothing of drone strikes and simply carpet-bombing their cute little forts).

[Stormspellz]

Half the knuckle draggers on the internet still think the US has a $10 trillion GDP like it's 2000 rather than nearing $20 trillion.

The US should tax more and cut spending on entitlements to get its books into better shape, but it's long term balance sheet outlook is good. Even with these irresponsible tax cuts, which as a matter of principle should not be passed.

of course something all the "but the debt" faux conservatives shouted always conveniently ignored was that Obama was on track to have a budget surplus.

the biggest internal threat to the union is income inequality

[Slant]

• 20 trillion in debt translates to over 100k debt for every single person in the work force 155 - 160 million people.
• College debt is already skyrocketing and the price of college is still going up.
• Worker pay has stagnated over the last 20 year.
• Income inequality higher than when we separated from England.
• Job outsourcing and AI taking over is putting people out of work all over at a time when a college degree is essential for a basic job.
• Rent costs are insane and increasing.
• Climate change.
• One single accident can bankrupt a person with healthcare costs.
• Completely corrupt political sphere.
• High imprisonment rates.
• The failing economy is dividing people creating even more polarized politics and hinting at civil war.

I am not nation bashing, I am just seeing the reality of the big picture. There is no fix for the U.S. Its citizens are going to be hurting for a very long time.

No, it's not. Just like the EU won't break up tomorrow. You guys need misery in your life. Clearly you have way too much time on your hands to start making this shit up.

[Milchshake]

of course something all the "but the debt" faux conservatives shouted always conveniently ignored was that Obama was on track to have a budget surplus.

the biggest internal threat to the union is income inequality

One might argue that a unified Republican government is the greatest threat to the county. The last two times the Republicans held the presidency and congress we had the Great Depression and then the housing bear sterns crash.

Third times a charm.

[Theodarzna]

Stop being dramatic. There's no doom on the horizon.

What would you think of a man who walked up to you and said "I can never actually die! I decided to live forever."