Frostscythe (on proc) instead of Obliterate with Soul of the Deathlord legendary ring

[Krizerion]

Hello guys. I play Frost DK for the past couple of months and I am looking for an answer to the question: Should I use Frostscythe when Killing Machine procs instead of Obliterate?


I have the legendary ring, which gives me the Gathering Storm talent, so the only other viable option on this talent row is Frostscythe. As far as I see the numbers, both Frostscythe and Obliterate deal the same amount of damage, with the difference that the first one uses one rune, where the second mentioned uses two. In this case, isn't it much better to use Frostscythe on KM proc?


Thanks in advance,
Kris

[Piz813]

Hello guys. I play Frost DK for the past couple of months and I am looking for an answer to the question: Should I use Frostscythe when Killing Machine procs instead of Obliterate?


I have the legendary ring, which gives me the Gathering Storm talent, so the only other viable option on this talent row is Frostscythe. As far as I see the numbers, both Frostscythe and Obliterate deal the same amount of damage, with the difference that the first one uses one rune, where the second mentioned uses two. In this case, isn't it much better to use Frostscythe on KM proc?


Thanks in advance,
Kris

Hi

I'd use scythe on 3 targets or more, like Hajartararaa adds and what not. Scythe is frost damage so 40 to 50 mastery that shit hits like a freight train. That's also on fire.

The down side is less Rime procs and barely any runic when you do use it. On single target use OB in KM procs still

[Hoeth]

On ST frostscythe still loses to OB. At first glance it does appear that since they do similiar damage but FSc costs half as much, you would want to use FSc over OB. But, you need to account for the additional Rime and Thronebreaker % as well. On 2+ targets FSc wins easily. On 4 targets with 25% crit drop OB completely.

Still, GS is a better talent choice for 1-2 targets, and better for 3 unless you can cleave the majority of the time. If the ring is one of your top 2 legendaries then by all means use FSc with KM on 2+ targets, but chest/bracers/belt are still better options.

[Puri]

You forget the offhand attack from obliterate. /thread

[Tyrean]

You forget the offhand attack from obliterate. /thread

Looked through logs on heroic goroth (don't think any mythic raiders would be using scythe on a single target fight) and found a guy that was using scythe. Average scythe cast 1.34M. Average Oblit cast 917K. The crit percentage of scythe was 90% so he probably had some spell queuing that messed up his KM procs, but the highest scythe crit was 1.96M and the highest Oblit Crit (including offhand) was 1.56M.

So yeah, looking at actual log data I would say that if you have the ring and are using scythe then you should be using scythe on KM procs instead of oblit.

[Kluian05]

Frostscythe does more damage than Obliterate when specced into it, even if ST. It also uses 1 rune over 2 so there's an advantage there. By those accounts alone you would use FS for killing machine proc even if Single Target. From my sim specing FS over Gathering Storm was only a 3% DPS loss ST. Personally I usually only spec FS for Mythic+, and I do use it in a single target rotation for bosses, etc. During Obliteration you would go back to using Obliterate in ST rotation as it's now 1 rune and generates more Runic Power than FS.

But as someone said above you need to consider Rime and Thronebreaker. I'm not sure on that aspect, I thought FS contributed to those as well (as long as during a Killing Machine proc).

[boz0]

One thing worth noting is that PoF (and therefore Toravon) favor FsC as well, since it's frost damage, whereas oblit is physical.

[Tyrean]

But as someone said above you need to consider Rime and Thronebreaker. I'm not sure on that aspect, I thought FS contributed to those as well (as long as during a Killing Machine proc).

Scythe procs rime pretty consistently and also procs thronebreaker at 50%.

[Baddok21]

If you did a serious FSc build you would drop haste significantly from 35%+ down too 15% and work on Crit/Mastery exclusively along with using shattering strikes in a single 6 rune dump rotation.

Relic Priority changes to NBtB + Cold as Ice

very off from the standard Obliteration build and stat/relic priority

[Piz813]

Looked through logs on heroic goroth (don't think any mythic raiders would be using scythe on a single target fight) and found a guy that was using scythe. Average scythe cast 1.34M. Average Oblit cast 917K. The crit percentage of scythe was 90% so he probably had some spell queuing that messed up his KM procs, but the highest scythe crit was 1.96M and the highest Oblit Crit (including offhand) was 1.56M.

So yeah, looking at actual log data I would say that if you have the ring and are using scythe then you should be using scythe on KM procs instead of oblit.

Is that 917k MH only or OH added?

[Saybel]

I got into the habit of scything ST when PoF is up with KM and Oblit otherwise. Not sure if its correct or not but I only play frost for M+ atm.

[Tyrean]

Is that 917k MH only or OH added?

It is the total.

Should also point out that I don't think anyone is advocating this for normal play, the original question was how to get the most of limited legendaries.

[Deleted]

If you are using FScy you want to consume every KM proc with FScy in ST Situation outside of Obliteration. The only time you do not want to consume KM with FScy for ST is if you are using the Belt as well.

[Schizoide]

Yeah, the main problem with FsC on single-targets these days is GCD-locking. You would need to somehow drop a ton of haste for it to be competitive.

[Baddok21]

Yeah, the main problem with FsC on single-targets these days is GCD-locking. You would need to somehow drop a ton of haste for it to be competitive.

you pretty much drop all your haste other than manadatory tier pieces and run extremely high crit/mastery.

Its actually quite nice to play around with you just hit so hard between FSc and Shattering Strikes Frost striikes with 35% crit and 65%+ mastery

1.7mil FSc crits and 4 Million Frost strike (MH/OH) and my frost weapons are still 63 with 964 ilvl (main unholy now).

[Sephiroph]

Hey, so I haven't done any rigorous testing outside of a read setting, although I do consistently rank very high as frost DPS. (wwwDOTwarcraftlogsDOTcom/character/us/whisperwind/sephiroph) What I have noticed however is what when using wrists, the extra frost damage you get during pillar pushes the ST damage of KM Frostscythes above Obliterate. My testing for this is simply trying both in a raid setting, and noting that the total damage of the MH and OH obliterate hits are lower than any Frostscythe crit. However, this is only the case while Pillar is up. If Pillar is not up, continue to use KM procs on Obliterate. Further, during Obliteration, odds are you still want to use Obliterate over Frostscythe, even during Pillar, because obliterate will give you over twice as much RP. However, if you are capping on RP during Obliteration and Pillar is up, then you can weave in some Frostscythes.

As to multiple targets, I only start spamming Frostscythe over oblit at 3 or more targets. However, you always use every KM on Frostscythe if you have 2 or more targets, regardless of whether or not Pillar is up.

Again, this is not the result of theorycrafting, but rather the result of rigorous testing in a raid setting with my own gear.

[hellhamster]

Hey, so I haven't done any rigorous testing outside of a read setting, although I do consistently rank very high as frost DPS. (wwwDOTwarcraftlogsDOTcom/character/us/whisperwind/sephiroph) What I have noticed however is what when using wrists, the extra frost damage you get during pillar pushes the ST damage of KM Frostscythes above Obliterate. My testing for this is simply trying both in a raid setting, and noting that the total damage of the MH and OH obliterate hits are lower than any Frostscythe crit. However, this is only the case while Pillar is up. If Pillar is not up, continue to use KM procs on Obliterate. Further, during Obliteration, odds are you still want to use Obliterate over Frostscythe, even during Pillar, because obliterate will give you over twice as much RP. However, if you are capping on RP during Obliteration and Pillar is up, then you can weave in some Frostscythes.

As to multiple targets, I only start spamming Frostscythe over oblit at 3 or more targets. However, you always use every KM on Frostscythe if you have 2 or more targets, regardless of whether or not Pillar is up.

Again, this is not the result of theorycrafting, but rather the result of rigorous testing in a raid setting with my own gear.

I noticed this as well when running SotD. Frostscythe builds for single target are generally lackluster though, especially when there's Cold Heart available.

[Sephiroph]

I noticed this as well when running SotD. Frostscythe builds for single target are generally lackluster though, especially when there's Cold Heart available.

I agree. My advice is mainly for fights that have periods of cleave but that also have periods of Single Target. On a pure ST fight, you should go Cold Heart.