Mega-Thread: Mueller investigation

[Breccia]

HJC plans Contempt proceedings.

Barr has refused to testify or turn over subpoena'd documents. The House is making their next move.

[zenkai]

Who said anything about the Mueller investigation, Trump has been named as a conspirator you can try to change the subject but Trump is a corrupt POS who surrounded himself with convicted felons, domestic abuser, someone who covered up for a pedophile ring, etc etc. This administration has had more resignation due to ethics and crime than any other in history feel free to stick your head in the sand but the truth is you love the swamp.

*looks at thread tittle* *looks at post* *looks at thread title again* Yup, pretty much a Draco post

[Bakis]

A testimony would force him to skip a day or two of golf doing damage control instead.
He got the attention span of a 2-year old, he is smart enough to cry wolf and pick golfing.

[kaelleria]

This is what TOTAL EXONERATION looks like

Trump would have been charged with obstruction were he not president, hundreds of former federal prosecutors assert

More than 370 former federal prosecutors who worked in Republican and Democratic administrations have signed on to a statement asserting special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s findings would have produced obstruction charges against President Trump — if not for the office he held.

The statement — signed by myriad former career government employees as well as high-profile political appointees — offers a rebuttal to Attorney General William P. Barr’s determination that the evidence Mueller uncovered was “not sufficient” to establish that Trump committed a crime.

Mueller had declined to say one way or the other whether Trump should have been charged, citing a Justice Department legal opinion that sitting presidents cannot be indicted, as well as concerns about the fairness of accusing someone for whom there can be no court proceeding.

[Breccia]

This is what TOTAL EXONERATION looks like

Just to put "370" into context: there really aren't that many federal prosecutors. Even if each of the 94 districts each had two assistants, that'd still not be enough.

The list also includes more than 20 former U.S. attorneys and more than 100 people with at least 20 years of service at the Justice Department — most of them former career officials. The signers worked in every presidential administration since that of Dwight D. Eisenhower.

[DocSavageFan]

I'm always amazed at what lengths people will go to in order to rationalize their incredibly biased "reality".

[Moonstream]

I'm always amazed at what lengths people will go to in order to rationalize their incredibly biased "reality".

I agree, it is amazing what Republicans come up with.

[zenkai]

This is what TOTAL EXONERATION looks like

Trump wouldn't even have been investigated with this circus had now established Republicans and Hildabeast hired an X foreign Spie that made up shit like the pee pee tape.

But I guess people pick and chose what they find wrong based on the side of the fence they are on.

[Breccia]

This is what TOTAL EXONERATION looks like

Four hundred and counting. Prosecutors from every administration back to Eisenhower, including Reagan, Bush, and Bush. "Side" doesn't appear to be a factor. "Trump tried to fire Mueller and told people to resist the investigation" appears to be the factor.

[kaelleria]

Link the actual Medium letter for the lazy -
https://medium.com/@dojalumni/statem...s-8ab7691c2aa1

[Edge-]

Trump wouldn't even have been investigated with this circus had now established Republicans and Hildabeast hired an X foreign Spie that made up shit like the pee pee tape.

But I guess people pick and chose what they find wrong based on the side of the fence they are on.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Specia...investigations

Except that's not what started the investigation, we've been over this.

Edit: Doubly, that's not a "foreign spy", that's legal opposition research through a US-based opposition research firm. Not the same as soliciting or being open to assistance from a hostile foreign government. Which is illegal.

[Breccia]

Link the actual Medium letter for the lazy

Quoted for the lazier.

Attempts to fire Mueller and then create false evidence

Despite being advised by then-White House Counsel Don McGahn that he could face legal jeopardy for doing so, Trump directed McGahn on multiple occasions to fire Mueller or to gin up false conflicts of interest as a pretext for getting rid of the Special Counsel. When these acts began to come into public view, Trump made “repeated efforts to have McGahn deny the story” — going so far as to tell McGahn to write a letter “for our files” falsely denying that Trump had directed Mueller’s termination.

Firing Mueller would have seriously impeded the investigation of the President and his associates — obstruction in its most literal sense. Directing the creation of false government records in order to prevent or discredit truthful testimony is similarly unlawful. The Special Counsel’s report states: “Substantial evidence indicates that in repeatedly urging McGahn to dispute that he was ordered to have the Special Counsel terminated, the President acted for the purpose of influencing McGahn’s account in order to deflect or prevent scrutiny of the President’s conduct toward the investigation.”

Attempts to limit the Mueller investigation

The report describes multiple efforts by the president to curtail the scope of the Special Counsel’s investigation.

First, the President repeatedly pressured then-Attorney General Jeff Sessions to reverse his legally-mandated decision to recuse himself from the investigation. The President’s stated reason was that he wanted an attorney general who would “protect” him, including from the Special Counsel investigation. He also directed then-White House Chief of Staff Reince Priebus to fire Sessions and Priebus refused.

Second, after McGahn told the President that he could not contact Sessions himself to discuss the investigation, Trump went outside the White House, instructing his former campaign manager, Corey Lewandowski, to carry a demand to Sessions to direct Mueller to confine his investigation to future elections. Lewandowski tried and failed to contact Sessions in private. After a second meeting with Trump, Lewandowski passed Trump’s message to senior White House official Rick Dearborn, who Lewandowski thought would be a better messenger because of his prior relationship with Sessions. Dearborn did not pass along Trump’s message.

As the report explains, “[s]ubstantial evidence indicates that the President’s effort to have Sessions limit the scope of the Special Counsel’s investigation to future election interference was intended to prevent further investigative scrutiny of the President’s and his campaign’s conduct” — in other words, the President employed a private citizen to try to get the Attorney General to limit the scope of an ongoing investigation into the President and his associates.

All of this conduct — trying to control and impede the investigation against the President by leveraging his authority over others — is similar to conduct we have seen charged against other public officials and people in powerful positions.

Witness tampering and intimidation

The Special Counsel’s report establishes that the President tried to influence the decisions of both Michael Cohen and Paul Manafort with regard to cooperating with investigators. Some of this tampering and intimidation, including the dangling of pardons, was done in plain sight via tweets and public statements; other such behavior was done via private messages through private attorneys, such as Trump counsel Rudy Giuliani’s message to Cohen’s lawyer that Cohen should “[s]leep well tonight[], you have friends in high places.”

Red for irony. Cohen went to jail literally today.

We emphasize that these are not matters of close professional judgment. Of course, there are potential defenses or arguments that could be raised in response to an indictment of the nature we describe here. In our system, every accused person is presumed innocent and it is always the government’s burden to prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt. But, to look at these facts and say that a prosecutor could not probably sustain a conviction for obstruction of justice — the standard set out in Principles of Federal Prosecution — runs counter to logic and our experience.

As former federal prosecutors, we recognize that prosecuting obstruction of justice cases is critical because unchecked obstruction — which allows intentional interference with criminal investigations to go unpunished — puts our whole system of justice at risk. We believe strongly that, but for the OLC memo, the overwhelming weight of professional judgment would come down in favor of prosecution for the conduct outlined in the Mueller Report.

[Draco-Onis]

*looks at thread tittle* *looks at post* *looks at thread title again* Yup, pretty much a Draco post

*looks at the person who doesn't follow the conversation

Again totally understand that your ilk doesn't want to talk about the amount of criminals and scumbags in Trump's inner circle.

[Breccia]

Except that's not what started the investigation, we've been over this.

Indeed. Trump started the investigation by firing Comey. That's why obstruction was part of the investigation. You'll notice the 419+ prosecutors (#419 worked for Nixon) are talking about obstruction. Obstruction of justice is a big deal: if someone in authority, say, the President, can simply dismiss any and all charges against him and his allies, then he's a dictator. That's not America. At least, it's not supposed to be. We're not supposed to add years to terms just because we feel like it either, and as of today, that's a talking point for some reason.

I guess the question really is: if Obama had just flat-out pardoned Clinton -- remember Clinton was never brought to trial or even charged with anything -- how would Republicans have reacted? If he had instructed Clinton not to go in front of Congress, and not to answer any questions asked by Congress, how would Republicans have felt? If Obama told Clinton to lie about Benghazi under oath, and to falsify documents, how would Republicans have felt? To use Trumpian logic, Benghazi was a nothingburger because no charges were filed. Would they still have felt the same if, instead of nothing happening, nothing could have happened because Obama blocked all such moves? Because that's exactly what we're seeing now. Barr could be cited for contempt any day now.

EDIT: Addendum. Barr is refusing to comply with the House's subpoena. The House is, therefore, starting the path towards contempt. The DoJ knows the House is serious and is trying to find some way the House can be happy with something other than the full report. They really want some of this kept silent, for some reason. Yes, I'm aware there are ongoing investigations, but HJC members all have security clearances they earned (not given away, a la Kushner). Saying "they might leak" is a lame-ass limp-dick IMPOTUS defense that could be used for literally anyone at anytime to block any document. Should I stop filing my taxes because the IRS might leak those?

[Edge-]

EDIT: Addendum. Barr is refusing to comply with the House's subpoena. The House is, therefore, starting the path towards contempt. The DoJ knows the House is serious and is trying to find some way the House can be happy with something other than the full report. They really want some of this kept silent, for some reason. Yes, I'm aware there are ongoing investigations, but HJC members all have security clearances they earned (not given away, a la Kushner). Saying "they might leak" is a lame-ass limp-dick IMPOTUS defense that could be used for literally anyone at anytime to block any document. Should I stop filing my taxes because the IRS might leak those?

Mind you, that's just for the report. That's not in reaction to his refusal to shore for a hearing. They can and absolutely should compel to show via subpoena and, if he fails to do so, throw his ass in jail until he complies.

Congress has the legal authority to conduct oversight, and if the Executive branch wants to flout and ignore that there can and should be legal consequences.

[Daelak]

Trump wouldn't even have been investigated with this circus had now established Republicans and Hildabeast hired an X foreign Spie that made up shit like the pee pee tape.

But I guess people pick and chose what they find wrong based on the side of the fence they are on.

Ted Cruz or Rubio was the first candidate to pick Fusion GPS which subcontracted to Christopher Steele, one of the most experienced and accomplished western spies in the world. His actionable and credible intelligence was utilized by the US and other countries for decades. Nothing was made up, just good old fashioned intelligence work from our most trusted allies.

[Breccia]

Congress has the legal authority to conduct oversight, and if the Executive branch wants to flout and ignore that there can and should be legal consequences.

We might just see that. Again, I see no reason why the HJC can't have the full report. I'm just some asshole on the internet, so I shouldn't have it, but House members are a different story.

And, yes, his refusal to testify speaks volumes.

Hopefully the DoJ knows this won't end well for them and hands the damn thing over. And I think it's especially telling that, near as I can tell, the only excuse they have "they might leak" is being challenged by over 400 federal prosecutors who point at Trump telling witnesses to lie.

[Flower Milk]

375+ federal prosecutors and climbing, who have worked for both Democrats and Republican presidents, have signed a list saying that Trump would have been charged with obstruction were he not president:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...=.d275332493d0

More and more are signing it as time goes on, too.

“Each of us believes that the conduct of President Trump described in Special Counsel Robert Mueller’s report would, in the case of any other person not covered by the Office of Legal Counsel policy against indicting a sitting President, result in multiple felony charges for obstruction of justice,” the former federal prosecutors wrote.

“We emphasize that these are not matters of close professional judgment,” they added. “Of course, there are potential defenses or arguments that could be raised in response to an indictment of the nature we describe here. . . . But, to look at these facts and say that a prosecutor could not probably sustain a conviction for obstruction of justice — the standard set out in Principles of Federal Prosecution — runs counter to logic and our experience.”

Among the high-profile signers are Bill Weld, a former U.S. attorney and Justice Department official in the Reagan administration who is running against Trump as a Republican; Donald Ayer, a former deputy attorney general in the George H.W. Bush Administration; John S. Martin, a former U.S. attorney and federal judge appointed to his posts by two Republican presidents; Paul Rosenzweig, who served as senior counsel to independent counsel Kenneth W. Starr; and Jeffrey Harris, who worked as the principal assistant to Rudolph W. Giuliani when he was at the Justice Department in the Reagan administration.

The list also includes more than 20 former U.S. attorneys and more than 100 people with at least 20 years of service at the Justice Department — most of them former career officials. The signers worked in every presidential administration since that of Dwight D. Eisenhower.

[Bakis]

Congress has the legal authority to conduct oversight, and if the Executive branch wants to flout and ignore that there can and should be legal consequences.

With the puppet of Trump at the rudder of DoJ I just picture a legal tug of war based of semantics or shaky arguments to the point of *ops the election is done, no need any more*

GOP has so far shown no will to stand up for checks and balances cos democrats look like soar losers to Trumps (in effect theirs) power base. It took fucking forever for a small number of them to speak out and outright say ~"Mr President you are wrong on Russian collusion, it did occour. We dont take Putins word above our intelligenece agencies like you do."

[Gorsameth]

Indeed. Trump started the investigation by firing Comey. That's why obstruction was part of the investigation. You'll notice the 419+ prosecutors (#419 worked for Nixon) are talking about obstruction. Obstruction of justice is a big deal: if someone in authority, say, the President, can simply dismiss any and all charges against him and his allies, then he's a dictator. That's not America. At least, it's not supposed to be. We're not supposed to add years to terms just because we feel like it either, and as of today, that's a talking point for some reason.

I guess the question really is: if Obama had just flat-out pardoned Clinton -- remember Clinton was never brought to trial or even charged with anything -- how would Republicans have reacted? If he had instructed Clinton not to go in front of Congress, and not to answer any questions asked by Congress, how would Republicans have felt? If Obama told Clinton to lie about Benghazi under oath, and to falsify documents, how would Republicans have felt? To use Trumpian logic, Benghazi was a nothingburger because no charges were filed. Would they still have felt the same if, instead of nothing happening, nothing could have happened because Obama blocked all such moves? Because that's exactly what we're seeing now. Barr could be cited for contempt any day now.

EDIT: Addendum. Barr is refusing to comply with the House's subpoena. The House is, therefore, starting the path towards contempt. The DoJ knows the House is serious and is trying to find some way the House can be happy with something other than the full report. They really want some of this kept silent, for some reason. Yes, I'm aware there are ongoing investigations, but HJC members all have security clearances they earned (not given away, a la Kushner). Saying "they might leak" is a lame-ass limp-dick IMPOTUS defense that could be used for literally anyone at anytime to block any document. Should I stop filing my taxes because the IRS might leak those?

"They might leak" is also a very weak defence when the answer to Barr being questioned on if he shared information about the ongoing cases with the White House he had to answer "I don't know".
He is the AG, he knows if he talked to the WH about an ongoing case from the Mueller investigation.