Mega-Thread: Mueller investigation

[Tijuana]

What would there be to lie about if he hasn't done anything wrong? The only people worried he might lie and commit perjury are the ones that know of what he's done and want to hide people from looking into them and know any lie would make people do just that.

I mean, your position clearly makes it known that any response anyone could have, will not be considered. You seem to have not read what I said at all, about his inartful use of words, that could be taken to mean other things, which could be construed as a lie.

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Did you just call 12 sentences a novel? What kind of "novels" do you read that only have 12 sentences?



So trying to fire Mueller isn't doing anything? Do you know if he does in fact stop it that it would be a constitutional nightmare and would actually lead to his impreachment?



If he's a walking perjury trap then that would mean he would lie about something that is actually true, like all of the alleg. If he did nothing wrong there's nothing he should lie about, but we know he'll lie as much as possible and they'll add perjury to the list.



Oh, so now you just that they did that. You don't have any actual evidence since all you can do is "believe" they did.



So then why has Trump been looking into firing Mueller? You haven't answered why he continues to try to stop it. Stopping it entirely would be such an admission of guilt the entire government would bring down its full might against him.



It's not illegal to get dirt on your opponent, but it is illegal when it comes from foreign governments during an election.



Then why did his son lie about it, saying that it was for adoption policy.



I'd expect an adult to read 12 sentences and not think that's "lengthy". There are short stories for 5 year olds that have more words in them. It's not my fault, or anyone elses, that you spout so much nonsense it has to be picked apart.

Yes, thinking about doing something is in fact, NOT DOING IT. Words have meanings. Besides, Mueller works for Trump. He CAN be fired, make no mistake. Also, I love how you accept anonymous sources as 100% legit, 100% of the time, yet you refute sources like, the DoJ. Hilarious.

[Machismo]

Ok, I will do your work this once. But in the future, I'm not responding to a novel.

1. Trump has factually done nothing, that the public is aware of, to stop the investigation. You DO KNOW, that he can just order it stopped, via his presidential powers, right? He is in charge of the DoJ. He is the leader of the executive branch.

2. Trump has not said he won't speak to Mueller. Quite the contrary, actually. But I have said that, because it's good legal advice. They can't make him do it, and he has only a very loose grasp on the meanings of words. He is a walking perjury trap every day.

3. The FBI has engaged in what some believe, including me, is criminal wrong doing. That's not Trump's fault. He didn't make them go get those phony wire taps.

4. Comey was the director of the FBI, not the lead investigator. That is a fact. NOBODY, including you, thought firing Comey would stop the investigation. To say that it was an attempt to end the investigation, when Trump can just order the investigation to cease, is a bizarre standard. Good luck with that one in court.

5. Trump factually did NOT fire the lead investigator. He fired the brass, not the gum shoe.

6. Taking a meeting with those Russians who were peddling Hillary crimes is not illegal in any way. No sane politician would deny that meeting, if they thought it was credible. The only way that meeting could result in a crime, is if one, there was an actual real crime that was disclosed, or two, they did not report it. If someone comes to you with evidence of a crime, the first step is to get them to spill the beans, and the second step is to report it to the authorities. If step one does not happen, step two CAN'T happen.

7. Whatever.

8. Trump factually does not know what the specific allegations are, any more than you or I do.

9. There is factually no statute against, "colluding with the Russians". The word collusion implies a crime. It's not a crime to engage in OPO research, such as that meeting, or the famed dossier.

Lastly, I would like to continue to point out, that we still do not have ONE SINGLE SHRED of evidence, that Trump has committed a crime.

For real though, maybe next time don't pick every single line out, and expect people to respond to a lengthy diatribe.

Well, according to Trump, he fired Comey, because of the investigation into Russia. I would say that Trump disagrees with your first claim.

As for the FBI and criminal wrongdoing, maybe you can provide evidence for such claims. Nunes tried, and failed miserably. In the end, his memo contradicted itself, and the GOP had to retract his most salacious claim. Nunes and Trump sure do lie a lot.

Trump thought firing Comey would stop the investigation, or at least derail or stall it. After all, that's what he told his Russian friends about the firing.

Taking a meeting with those Russians can easily be a crime. It can be against multiple laws. Lying about it can also be a crime, which his entire staff did, as did he. You sure do like to support liars who've been accused of rape a lot... strange.

There is factually a crime against a private entity trying to represent the United States government in diplomatic effort without consent of the United States government.

Enjoy moving those goalposts and defending a rapist.

[Dontrike]

Yes, thinking about doing something is in fact, NOT DOING IT. Words have meanings. Besides, Mueller works for Trump. He CAN be fired, make no mistake. Also, I love how you accept anonymous sources as 100% legit, 100% of the time, yet you refute sources like, the DoJ. Hilarious.

You're right, he can be fired, but it would practically end Trump's presidency. It would in fact be an admission of guilt.

[Machismo]

I mean, your position clearly makes it known that any response anyone could have, will not be considered. You seem to have not read what I said at all, about his inartful use of words, that could be taken to mean other things, which could be construed as a lie.

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Yes, thinking about doing something is in fact, NOT DOING IT. Words have meanings. Besides, Mueller works for Trump. He CAN be fired, make no mistake. Also, I love how you accept anonymous sources as 100% legit, 100% of the time, yet you refute sources like, the DoJ. Hilarious.

Well, considering you continue to believe Trump, you don't really get to complain about people believing questionable sources. You have been caught lying numerous times on these threads, and I'm STILL waiting for you to back up the claim about journalists getting security clearances.

[Bullettime]

Unsure if it got posted during all the back and forth with Tijuana but potentially big news.

Gates officially pleading guilty but also apparently agreeing to testify against Manafort. Oh the shit that's gonna come out during that one.

[alexw]

Unsure if it got posted during all the back and forth with Tijuana but potentially big news.

Gates officially pleading guilty but also apparently agreeing to testify against Manafort. Oh the shit that's gonna come out during that one.

The trial date is right before mid-terms. So just perfect timing for setting a Trump is corrupt narrative.

[Thekri]

The trial date is right before mid-terms. So just perfect timing for setting a Trump is corrupt narrative.

Maybe more. It would make sense for Mueller to use the Manafort trial as the beginning of his endgame. Conservatives have stopped defending Manafort, he was Trump's campaign advisor, and the evidence in that trial might be a perfect time to start tying it all together. If Mueller really wants Trump impeached, that would be the perfect time to start dropping actual bombshell evidence directly implicating the Trump administration. Mueller is a republican, but after the events of the last year or so, I doubt he has much loyalty left.

[Belize]

Unsure if it got posted during all the back and forth with Tijuana but potentially big news.

Gates officially pleading guilty but also apparently agreeing to testify against Manafort. Oh the shit that's gonna come out during that one.

Explains why Trumpisto went apeshit this morning.

[Bullettime]

Maybe more. It would make sense for Mueller to use the Manafort trial as the beginning of his endgame. Conservatives have stopped defending Manafort, he was Trump's campaign advisor, and the evidence in that trial might be a perfect time to start tying it all together. If Mueller really wants Trump impeached, that would be the perfect time to start dropping actual bombshell evidence directly implicating the Trump administration. Mueller is a republican, but after the events of the last year or so, I doubt he has much loyalty left.

That's why I find it so interesting. The amount of shit that's going to get dug up and thrown around in that case is going to ridiculous.

[Dacien]

The trial date is right before mid-terms. So just perfect timing for setting a Trump is corrupt narrative.

Good point.

[LaserSharkDFB]

The trial date is right before mid-terms. So just perfect timing for setting a Trump is corrupt narrative.

The Trump presidency is also perfect timing for setting a 'Trump is corrupt' narrative.

I mean, I know you want to make it sound like it's all manufactured as a political maneuver, but Mueller is a Republican and was a perfectly acceptable choice until he actually did his job and started to dig things up about your boi Donnie T. It's unlikely Gates has any goods on Trump, but he probably does have them on Manafort, who we already knew was a Russian puppet. You can bitch all you want, but if it wasn't Manafort, it would have been someone else in the spotlight around midterms. And we'll probably see more people get fingered before then, too.

If you want to complain about bad timing on investigations, go back to November 2016 and complain about Comey saying Clinton was still being investigated.

[Bullettime]

The Trump presidency is also perfect timing for setting a 'Trump is corrupt' narrative.

I mean, I know you want to make it sound like it's all manufactured as a political maneuver, but Mueller is a Republican and was a perfectly acceptable choice until he actually did his job and started to dig things up about your boi Donnie T. It's unlikely Gates has any goods on Trump, but he probably does have them on Manafort, who we already knew was a Russian puppet. You can bitch all you want, but if it wasn't Manafort, it would have been someone else in the spotlight around midterms. And we'll probably see more people get fingered before then, too.

If you want to complain about bad timing on investigations, go back to November 2016 and complain about Comey saying Clinton was still being investigated.

Gates worked for and alongside Manafort at various times for over a decade, including being the top aide to Manafort as Trump's campaign manager, and both had extensively connections to different Russian oligarchs over the years through their consulting.

Gates, however, isn't as financially well off and is regarded as an avid family man who's also a crook by trade. He can't afford to take the fight Manafort is and will reportedly spend about 18 months in jail for the charges with full cooperation.

Basically, he's going to sing like a canary. He might not have anything to directly implicate Trump himself but he would have been in a position to throw Manafort directly under the bus and have some substantial knowledge of what the campaign was doing and where the money was coming from/headed to.

[Bodakane]

Uh, you lost me. Where did I say there was no evidence, about anything? What I said was, me being asked to provide evidence of something I am saying didn't happen, is impossible. You can't prove a negative. That is a fact. You have taken that comment of mine, and flipped it on it's head. Now you are saying I said there was no evidence, rather than the reverse of what I was arguing. You have completely lost me, sorry. I have no idea what you are on about.

As for my OPINION, regarding what they would do IF they had evidence, I stand by that. I really don't think they would have impeachable proof of a crime, and then just sit on it for two years while Trump continues to be president, and they idly indict random Russians for petty trolling crimes. But that is my OPINION. I can't PROVE my OPINION, about what they would or would not do, regarding evidence that they may or may not have. Calling your disagreement with my opinion a lie, does not make you guys look smart. Just sayin...

I have never once denied that the Russians interfered in the election. Prove it, or stfu. I have repeatedly said that a few Facebook trolls didn't impact the outcome, and the DoJ agrees with me, per their comments last week. In fact, this is the usual game you guys play here. You conflate denials of collusion with denials of Russian meddling. You conflate illegal immigration with legal immigration, to say those against illegal immigration are against immigrants. This is just what you little scamps DO.

Here's just two times. I know...we all know...there's more. These two posts show you don't think there's evidence of not only collusion, but that Russia didn't interfere with the election.

If Mueller had evidence of a crime committed by Trump, I assure you he would not just sit back and let Trump be president while he idly investigates random Russians. Get serious.

The bottom line here, as everyone knows, deep down inside, is that Trump obviously will not be impeached, or jailed, or any other fantasy of Democrats. You have had almost two years now, of MILLIONS of dollars being spent, to try and pin him with some unknown crime, and nothing has ever come of it. Not one single shred of evidence, implicating Trump, has been found thus far. It's getting to be time to accept the reality that, this douche bag just won. He didn't cheat. People really truly just voted for him because they thought a foul mouthed reality star, with no political experience, was a better candidate than Hillary Clinton. The best candidate the left ever had, as she was called, lost to the biggest asshole to ever run for office. Your best got beat by the worst ever.

[Bullettime]

One other note is that this also sends a clear message to Manafort of basically cooperate or you're fucked. Manafort has seemingly been trying to play hardball, even having new charges levied against him due to him trying to post an illegal house as collateral for bail.

If Manafort goes to trial with Gates being willing to cooperate 100%, and he will be, Manafort is 100% done. He was in deep shit before but Gates is basically the insurance. So does Manafort cooperate? And if so, who and what does he have that Mueller wants? How far does this rabbit hole go with the money laundering?

[Shadowmelded]

The Trump presidency is also perfect timing for setting a 'Trump is corrupt' narrative.

I mean, I know you want to make it sound like it's all manufactured as a political maneuver, but Mueller is a Republican and was a perfectly acceptable choice until he actually did his job and started to dig things up about your boi Donnie T. It's unlikely Gates has any goods on Trump, but he probably does have them on Manafort, who we already knew was a Russian puppet. You can bitch all you want, but if it wasn't Manafort, it would have been someone else in the spotlight around midterms. And we'll probably see more people get fingered before then, too.

If you want to complain about bad timing on investigations, go back to November 2016 and complain about Comey saying Clinton was still being investigated.

I don't think he was complaining about the timing, just saying it's fortunate. But yeah, the narrative has been established for a while due to the myriad ties and suspicious activities wrt Russia. Doesn't hurt to have it brought to the fore to keep people energized/ward off apathy.

[Breccia]

Looks like gates' deal has been struck in return for his testimony against manafort.

Oh ho ho, "Agrees to testify against Manafort". Damn. That's gonna leave a mark.

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One other note is that this also sends a clear message to Manafort of basically cooperate or you're fucked.

Hmm. There is another option: Mueller no longer needs Manafort. Now, this in turn would imply either
a) Manafort's dealings dead-end with him, or go international and the CIA takes over, or
b) Manafort is so provably in such deep connected shit that his word is no longer required.

You're probably right, just pointing out there's technically an alternative.

[Thekri]

Oh ho ho, "Agrees to testify against Manafort". Damn. That's gonna leave a mark.

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Hmm. There is another option: Mueller no longer needs Manafort. Now, this in turn would imply either
a) Manafort's dealings dead-end with him, or go international and the CIA takes over, or
b) Manafort is so provably in such deep connected shit that his word is no longer required.

You're probably right, just pointing out there's technically an alternative.

Well, it is rational to assume that Mueller wants to burn somebody for all of this. He has more or less let Flynn, Gates, and Papadopoulos off the hook so far, for promises of bigger things. So either he really, really, really wants to torch Manafort (Which has to be what republicans everywhere are hoping), or we haven't seen indictments against his actual targets yet. Manafort might be one of the bigger fish in this pond to fry, or he might still be bait. It depends on how far up the food chain Mueller thinks he has the evidence to go.

[Mormolyce]

Oh ho ho, "Agrees to testify against Manafort". Damn. That's gonna leave a mark.

Bishop to Queen Five.

The message here is pretty stark: attempt to fight the charges and I'll just lean on the other squealers to testify against you.

This is their biggest problem - zero loyalty. Trump is even bad at being a criminal.

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Well, it is rational to assume that Mueller wants to burn somebody for all of this. He has more or less let Flynn, Gates, and Papadopoulos off the hook so far, for promises of bigger things. So either he really, really, really wants to torch Manafort (Which has to be what republicans everywhere are hoping), or we haven't seen indictments against his actual targets yet. Manafort might be one of the bigger fish in this pond to fry, or he might still be bait. It depends on how far up the food chain Mueller thinks he has the evidence to go.

I don't believe for a minute it's Manafort. He's not a big fish in any respect.

[Breccia]

Manafort might be one of the bigger fish in this pond to fry, or he might still be bait.

You know that three-part "proof" that God Doesn't Exist?
1) God is all-powerful
2) God is all-knowing.
3) Evil exists.

You can have two, but not three, says the "proof". This isn't theology, this is analogy.

The Trump variant:
1) Trump is an honest, law-abiding person who loves America.
2) Trump is a competent leader.
3) Trump hired a bunch of criminals who did a bunch of illegal Russian shit while working for him.

You can have two of the three.

You could argue that Trump didn't hire a bunch of criminals, but those guilty pleas destroy that argument.

Trump could be an honest person, who hired Manafort and Flynn (etc) because he was too inept to know they were criminals working with Russia. That's literally the best option left. It would take some mental gymnastics to claim that Trump had no idea what his campaign manager was doing, but, it's at least possible. For now.

Or...you could argue that Trump is not an honest, law-abiding person who loves America. Hiring criminals who worked with Russia and doing so on purpose, as well as not firing them for doing so, means he either doesn't love America, or that he's not law-abiding.

The investigation is ongoing.

[Dacien]

You know that three-part "proof" that God Doesn't Exist?
1) God is all-powerful
2) God is all-knowing.
3) Evil exists.

You can have two, but not three, says the "proof". This isn't theology, this is analogy.

The Trump variant:
1) Trump is an honest, law-abiding person who loves America.
2) Trump is a competent leader.
3) Trump hired a bunch of criminals who did a bunch of illegal Russian shit while working for him.

You can have two of the three.

That is weak tea in both cases.