Mega-Thread: Mueller investigation

[Dendrek]

I've been thinking a lot about Trump and his pardon ability. Even if he was on his way out, vis a vis a resignation, I wouldn't put him past throwing out several pardons out of a purely self serving nature. If Manafort/Stone/Cohen/Whomever have pardons, they don't need to worry about plea deals or flipping. They're free. And Trump is free from their testimony against him in post-Residential trials.

Gamble vs. United States is coming down the pipeline, and may have implications for pardons in regards to state charges (TLDR atm it's widely thought that presidential pardons only cover federal crimes, not state - Gamble has a chance to upend that and have Presidential Pardons include state charges). Double Jeopardy essentially means you can't be tried for the same crime twice. So if you're found not guilty in a court, the prosecution can't charge you again and retry you (it's much more complicated than that).

I wonder if Mueller is holding back on some charges that are also state crimes in lieu of this development. He is that smart and plays at a VERY high level when it comes to legal strategy.

I really hate that this currently ridiculously biased Supreme Court may soon be deciding that pardons have nearly unlimited and unchecked power in abetting criminal activity and sanitizing corruption. The classic GOP would have adamantly condemn such abuses of power, right? But the modern GOP seem to celebrate it.

It also amazes me that pardons have no checks and balances at all. I suppose it's meant to balance the court, but I really think there should be some level of congressional approval involved.

[Thekri]

I really hate that this currently ridiculously biased Supreme Court may soon be deciding that pardons have nearly unlimited and unchecked power in abetting criminal activity and sanitizing corruption. The classic GOP would have adamantly condemn such abuses of power, right? But the modern GOP seem to celebrate it.

It also amazes me that pardons have no checks and balances at all. I suppose it's meant to balance the court, but I really think there should be some level of congressional approval involved.

They kind of do, as @Ripster42 pointed out, they can be compelled to testify, and help in contempt for as long as they refuse. They can also be charged with perjury if they lie during this testimony. They also can't plead the fifth, because pardons are already an admission of guilt, so they can be compelled to testify on things that could incriminate them (As long as they were charges in the purview of the pardon), since they can't be charged. In other words, a pardon makes them the perfect witness for Mueller.

Now a pardon would help someone that is the ultimate target of the Mueller probe, IE someone like Don Jr. or Kushner, who Trump wants to protect, but they would also be compelled to rat out everyone else, including Trump, and could be indicted for perjury if they lied.

[kaelleria]

Whitiker is claiming that the investigation is almost over... But it's Whitiker so who knows?

[Thekri]

Whitiker is claiming that the investigation is almost over... But it's Whitiker so who knows?

Source for this?

[kaelleria]

Source for this?

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...er/2702883002/

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People have been claiming it's almost over for months... and months.

But he's the acting AG so he has some insight

[Wyrt]

Whitiker is claiming that the investigation is almost over... But it's Whitiker so who knows?

Over as in Mueller is going to make a report or over in that Whitiker is going to end it?

[Edge-]

Whitiker is claiming that the investigation is almost over... But it's Whitiker so who knows?

If Mueller's team doesn't push back, this lends credibility to Whitaker's comment. We'll see though, I'd be surprised if they were wrapping up this early TBH.

[kaelleria]

If Mueller's team doesn't push back, this lends credibility to Whitaker's comment. We'll see though, I'd be surprised if they were wrapping up this early TBH.

I think some parts are going to continue... maybe beyond Mueller's tenure. A lot might just get farmed out to parts of the DoJ.

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And Cohen is testifying again on February 8th behind closed doors to the HIC.

[Butler to Baby Sloths]

I think some parts are going to continue... maybe beyond Mueller's tenure. A lot might just get farmed out to parts of the DoJ.

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And Cohen is testifying again on February 8th behind closed doors to the HIC.

And it's a democrat controlled HIC, much less likely to take "I don't remember" for an answer.

[Ripster42]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...er/2702883002/

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But he's the acting AG so he has some insight

He's a trump plant who's been pretty open about being biased in this case.

People have been claiming it's almost over for months... and months.

More than a year at this point. The first I remember hearing about it being "almost over" was aug '17. I guess cobb is now embarrassed, and has been for 13 months now. It's been 17 months since he made the prediction that he would be embarrassed it it wasn't over by 2018.

[Fugus]

If Gamble leads to a prevention of state charges because federal ones were pardoned and double jeopardy prevents a second trial, then they would be immune from any further state charges. The admission of guilt from the pardon wouldn't result in an automatic guilty verdict in the state courts going directly to sentencing.

But I love the idea. Wish it were so.

That really sucks. Hopefully they actually do their jobs and strike that crap down, but given how badly they have done recently, I have little hope for that.

I would think it should go like that. You admitting you done it to one party admits you did it to both. And just because one chooses not to pursue shouldn't mean the other is barred from pursuing as well. That would be trampling on states rights in the process I would think.

That gives the president WAY too much power, Democrat, Republican, Independent or otherwise and actually opens up for abuse. If it goes through, anyone breaking the law while their people are in power just has to make sure that their charges are bad enough to be federal and they are fine.

[Masark]

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...er/2702883002/

But he's the acting AG so he has some insight

His wife was making the same claim a couple weeks ago.

My magic 8 ball says both of these claims are probably baseless.

[Edge-]

His wife was making the same claim a couple weeks ago.

My magic 8 ball says both of these claims are probably baseless.

That letter from his wife actually raised all kinds of flags...shouldn't he not be talking to her about the investigation?

[Poopymonster]

What is Jones right about according to Stone? Of that 2:30 clip I think 2 mins of that was random whining and him being such a merciful master to Stone by given him a job.

I'm pretty sure if Alex Jones gets investigated for anything he could probably taken off the air, no way this guy is running a legitimated business.

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Might just be easier to arrest the entire senior staff of the Trump Campaign, at least those that testified because they all lied.

Well the Sandy Hook families V Alex Jones lawsuit has/could have the internal communications of Infowars turned over, which might bring a bunch of shit out in the open.

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If Mueller's team doesn't push back, this lends credibility to Whitaker's comment. We'll see though, I'd be surprised if they were wrapping up this early TBH.

Depending on what they find on Stone's hardware, I'm pretty sure the "wrap up" date will be pushed as far back as Trump's shit by Pelosi.

[PACOX]

Jesus...we still have an acting AG, acting SoD, acting CoS, and dozens of vacancies.

[Orbitus]

Jesus...we still have an acting AG, acting SoD, acting CoS, and dozens of vacancies.

That is because no one in their right mind wants to work for such a shitty presidency. And the people that are trying to jump to be in their positions stand to gain something usually from the appointments. Kinda like the EPA administers wanting to cut regulations while he was suing the EPA.

[Poopymonster]

Jesus...we still have an acting AG, acting SoD, acting CoS, and dozens of vacancies.

Is this the "I Don't Exist" chorus I hear?

[Thekri]

Over as in Mueller is going to make a report or over in that Whitiker is going to end it?

I don't think so. Whitaker is a rat, but rats are good at surviving. Take this quote from the article for instance:

“I have been fully briefed on the investigation. I look forward to Director Mueller delivering the final report," Whitaker said. "I really am not going to talk about an open and ongoing investigation otherwise. But the statements I made were as a private citizen with only publicly available information."

I don't think Whitaker has any intention of getting in Mueller's way. I don't think he has any intention of hiding any of it or blocking any of it. Whitaker has seen the whole case, which none of us have. I read this as he isn't going to bet on the losing team. If he doesn't think Trump will survive it, he has nothing to gain by running interference for him, and everything to lose.

[Ripster42]

Jesus...we still have an acting AG, acting SoD, acting CoS, and dozens of vacancies.

Not acting chief of staff. Chief of staff does not require senate confirmation. He's just the chief of staff.

[cubby]

Jesus...we still have an acting AG, acting SoD, acting CoS, and dozens of vacancies.

We've had an acting president since 2017.

I'll show myself out.