Mega-Thread: Mueller investigation

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

My favorite quote from the Mueller report so far:

When mueller was appointed Trump said it was the end of his presidency. Republicans who still vote for Trump better never talk about corruption again.

[Edge-]

I mean, can we all take a moment to appreciate this fact -

The President of the United States of America, according to this report, repeatedly told his staff to knowingly and flagrantly violate US laws. He encouraged and requested that they lie for him and put themselves in legal jeopardy to protect him.

This alone, to me, is grounds for impeachment. A president who so callously disregards the law, or who is so ignorant and oblivious to the law, is a serious national security risk and cannot be allowed to remain in office. Period.

[Varvara Spiros Gelashvili]

Lmao. The amount of idiots on the Dem side that even after the report is now done are still just putting their fingers in their ears and screaming LALALALALALA is hilarious.

Get fucking rekt you useless Democrat assholes. I hope the millions of dollars wasted by you People is sued out of you and put back into something useful. Like a Wall.

You should read the report the mueller investigation made 48 million in asset seizure while costing 25 million. There have been 3 confirmed investigation into Trump that have all made money btw. His charity was closed down for being a slush fund with the promise of giving donations to kids with cancer. The Clinton foundation on the other hand is still running fine btw. Michael Cohen had to pay 300k for the campaign finance violations as well and trump is implicited in that as well..

[Rukh]

"President Trump reacted negatively to the special counsel's appointment. He told advisors that it was the end of his presidency, sought to have Attorney General Jeff Sessions unrecuse from the Russia investigation and to have the Special Council removed, and engaged in efforts to curtail the Special Council's investigation and prevent the disclosure of evidence to it, including through public and private contacts with potential witnesses"

Pretty sure we're going to be having impeachment hearings.


Edit: Also what the fuck was Barr even thinking? He knew the report was being released. He knew what it said. Why is he such a blatant liar?

[Frusciante]

And do you know who else had the right to fire people? Nixon. And he did. And it was textbook obstruction.

Just because you can do something doesn't mean it's necessarily right, or even legal in all circumstances.

But is was 100% legal. I believe he was absolutely right in firing him. He was playing politics during the election and then wouldn't come clean on Trump.

[tyrlaan]

Chiming in to make two broad stroke points:

1) I don't know if I can hate someone more than I hate Trump, BUT a conclusion by the Special Counsel that a total of zero Americans worked with Russians to undermine the 2016 election is objectively good news.

2) Anyone who thinks the only issue with the Trump presidency was this specific investigation is either misinformed, deluding themselves, or being deliberately dishonest. To review, Colbert gave us a handy list of both the reasons Trump is a crap president as well as all the investigations into him and his business dealings. I'll link to the images since posting images seems to be counted as "spam" depending on who looks at your post.

Why Trump is a bad president (yes some are just jokes, this is from Colbert after all): https://imgur.com/7aWKbnK

List of investigations (sorry Trump fans, none of these are jokes. also, sorry, can't find a better shot of it): https://imgur.com/NpVWcG1

[Flower Milk]

There were numerous contacts between the campaign and Russia, but they didn't have enough evidence to charge.

That's not what it says. What it essentially says, is that there is evidence of crimes by the president, but they can't charge him, and they don't state why they can't charge him, but it's assumed to be because it's DoJ policy that you can't charge a sitting president. That's up to Congress to do, and that's why it was important for this report to be released.

Congress is now acting:
https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/41819/

“Attorney General Barr’s regrettably partisan handling of the Mueller report, including his slanted March 24th summary letter, his irresponsible testimony before Congress last week, and his indefensible plan to spin the report in a press conference later this morning — hours before he allows the public or Congress to see it — have resulted in a crisis of confidence in his independence and impartiality. We believe the only way to begin restoring public trust in the handling of the Special Counsel’s investigation is for Special Counsel Mueller himself to provide public testimony in the House and Senate as soon as possible. The American people deserve to hear the truth.

Not to mention these too:
https://www.newsweek.com/michael-coh...ctions-1400119

Michael Cohen says he will 'tell it all' to help fill in Mueller report redactions for the American people

https://www.buzzfeed.com/markdistefa...mueller-russia

Australia Says It's "Ready To Confirm" A Key Meeting That Led To The Investigation Into Trump's Russia Links

Impeachment hearings incoming, I'm guessing.

[Ashnazg]

"You were supposed to protect me." or something to that effect.

Yeah, this isn't the mentality of a fucking authoritarian who doesn't understand how our government works at all.

Republicans, are you alright with this?

I am neutral on the whole Trump thing, but the quote linked clearly illustrates that Trump was frustrated over the fact that the special counsel appointment was going to stymie him for years, not that he was afraid they were going to find any dirt.

I don't think he said that to Sesssions implying that he was supposed to cover some wrongdoing.

[Edge-]

I am neutral on the whole Trump thing, but the quote linked clearly illustrates that Trump was frustrated over the fact that the special counsel appointment was going to stymie him for years, not that he was afraid they were going to find any dirt.

Stymie him how, exactly?

I don't think he said that to Sesssions implying that he was supposed to cover some wrongdoing.

I mean, if you ignore the other context in the report. Like Trump trying to get Mueller fired multiple times. Trump telling his staff to break the law to protect him, and plenty of other instances.

[kaelleria]

That's not what it says. What it essentially says, is that there is evidence of crimes by the president, but they can't charge him, and they don't state why they can't charge him, but it's assumed to be because it's DoJ policy that you can't charge a sitting president. That's up to Congress to do, and that's why it was important for this report to be released.

Congress is now acting:
https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/41819/



Not to mention these too:
https://www.newsweek.com/michael-coh...ctions-1400119



https://www.buzzfeed.com/markdistefa...mueller-russia



Impeachment hearings incoming, I'm guessing.

You're misunderstanding me... I'm talking about his orbit, not Trump.

Trump definitely obstructed justice and his campaign did horrible things to win the presidency. Even the redacted version of the report proves this.

The bar for our government should not be at least we aren't convicted criminals.

[Rukh]

That's not what it says. What it essentially says, is that there is evidence of crimes by the president, but they can't charge him, and they don't state why they can't charge him, but it's assumed to be because it's DoJ policy that you can't charge a sitting president. That's up to Congress to do, and that's why it was important for this report to be released.

Congress is now acting:
https://www.speaker.gov/newsroom/41819/



Not to mention these too:
https://www.newsweek.com/michael-coh...ctions-1400119



https://www.buzzfeed.com/markdistefa...mueller-russia

Actually they do lay out why they didn't charge him:

Third, we considered whether to evaluate the conduct we investigated under the Justice Manual standards governing prosecution and declination decisions, but we determined not to apply an approach that could potentially result in a judgment that the President committed crimes. The threshold step under the Justice Manual standards is to assess whether a person's conduct "constitutes a federal offense." U.S. Dep't of Justice, Justice Manual § 9-27.220 (2018) (Justice Manual). Fairness concerns counseled against potentially reaching that judgment when no charges can be brought. The ordinary means for an individual to respond to an accusation is through a speedy and public trial, with all the procedural protections that surround a criminal case. An individual who believes he was wrongly accused can use that process to seek to clear his name. In contrast, a prosecutor's judgment that crimes were committed, but that no charges will be brought, affords no such adversarial opportunity for public name-clearing before an impartial adjudicator.

The concerns about the fairness of such a determination would be heightened in the case of a sitting President, where a federal prosecutor' s accusation of a crime, even in an internal report, could carry consequences that extend beyond the realm of criminal justice. OLC noted similar concerns about sealed indictments. Even if an indictment were sealed during the President's term, OLC reasoned, "it would be very difficult to preserve [an indictment's] secrecy," and if an indictment became public, "[t]he stigma and opprobrium" could imperil the President's ability to govern." Although a prosecutor's internal report would not represent a formal public accusation akin to an indictment, the possibility of the report's public disclosure and the absence of a neutral adjudicatory forum to review its findings counseled against potentially determining "that the person's conduct constitutes a federal offense." Justice Manual§ 9-27.220.

OLC policy memo : https://www.justice.gov/olc/opinion/...al-prosecution (linked to page)

Essentially they said they're unable to charge the president and it's up to congress to impeach, so they didn't reach conclusive assertions of guilt based on that, however they emphasize that if they felt they could exonerate the president they would say it.

If we had confidence after a thorough investigation of the facts that the president clearly did not commit obstruction of justice, we would state so. Based on the facts and the applicable legal standards, however, we are unable to reach that judgment.

[Shalcker]

"Oh my God. This is terrible. This is the end of my Presidency. I’m f*cked," Trump said after learning that a Special Counsel had been appointed

Full statement text to the link. Sounds like the Orange Obstructionist was worried about what the Special Counsel might find.

No, reading full statement it was more about "It takes years and years and i wouldn't be able to do anything".

Which is exactly how it happened, so whoever told him that was right.

[Flower Milk]

Congressman Eric Swalwell just called for Attorney General Barr to resign, hopefully others follow calling for the same.

[Somewhatconcerned]

So silver lining in all of this: not even his own lackeys would carry out illegal orders. Checks and balances.

Still not enough for impeachment. No crime was technically committed.

[Edge-]

No, reading full statement it was more about "It takes years and years and i wouldn't be able to do anything".

Which is exactly how it happened, so whoever told him that was right.

What specifically wasn't he able to do that he would have otherwise been able to do without the investigation?

- - - Updated - - -

So silver lining in all of this: not even his own lackeys would carry out illegal orders. Checks and balances.

That's not checks and balances.

Still not enough for impeachment. No crime was technically committed.

Bull-fucking-shit. The President of the United States of American, either through malice or gross ignorance, repeatedly told his staff to violate the law on his behalf to protect himself. If that's not impeachable then Trump may as well start shooting people on 5th Avenue because that wouldn't be impeachable either.

[Paranoid Android]

Trump, Jr. et al BARELY avoided indictment for violating campaign finance law by soliciting dirt on Clinton. Mueller determined they likely couldn’t prove willfulness and that the value of the solicited information exceeded the legal threshold beyond a reasonable doubt.

Translation: Don, Jr. was too stupid to know the campaign finance law and barely got away with violating it.

[Flower Milk]

So silver lining in all of this: not even his own lackeys would carry out illegal orders. Checks and balances.

Still not enough for impeachment. No crime was technically committed.

Obstruction of justice is a crime, and there's more than enough evidence that Trump obstructed justice. He did it in plain sight in front of the American people, and there's plenty more evidence of it in the Mueller report.

[Hobb]

Yeah, expect to hear transcripts read aloud during the GOP Primary debates. And the Presidential Debates.

Agreed, the stuff coming out of this report pretty much have the 2020 election billboards and ads writing themselves for the democrats.

[Edge-]

Trump, Jr. et al BARELY avoided indictment for violating campaign finance law by soliciting dirt on Clinton. Mueller determined they likely couldn’t prove willfulness and that the value of the solicited information exceeded the legal threshold beyond a reasonable doubt.

Translation: Don, Jr. was too stupid to know the campaign finance law and barely got away with violating it.

The "They're too incompetent to have broken the law" defense is getting a whole lotta use from this administration.

[Dug]

Bull-fucking-shit. The President of the United States of American, either through malice or gross ignorance, repeatedly told his staff to violate the law on his behalf to protect himself. If that's not impeachable then Trump may as well start shooting people on 5th Avenue because that wouldn't be impeachable either.

Right but they're falling back on "he was angry and too stupid to realize he was asking people to commit a crime"