Sensible Discussion about Classic

[BarosanuNr1]

You listed a lot of features but didn't point out the most important one - the community. WoW Classic is the type of game that is made or broken by the people who play it. If the community is good, then all the gameplay limitations become irrelevant. If it ends up being as toxic as retail... it won't end well.

[adynn]

I think the answer to that should not be based on arguments, but on a simple look to audience's demand. Tons of people played vanilla classic realms that were accurate to actual vanilla with all the imbalances, difficulties etc. That means people want THAT experience, not some kind of hybrid.
Im not even sure that bugs should also be fixed, or exploits like wall jumping, cause that was huge part of MY experience and that would be something I would look forward to if it appeared again on these realms. Same for other bugs, they were also part of experience and gave flavor to the game.

I agree, go with something safe.

The real questions for me are Elysium-like changes, particularly Black Lotus spawn rate, I would absolutely want to see the Black Lotus spawn rate increased like Elysium did as they are super cancer and a much bigger proportion of the playerbase will care about them than what happened in retail.

[Wiedzemir]

I agree, go with something safe.

The real questions for me are Elysium-like changes, particularly Black Lotus spawn rate, I would absolutely want to see the Black Lotus spawn rate increased like Elysium did as they are super cancer and a much bigger proportion of the playerbase will care about them than what happened in retail.

That's another slippery slope. You change one thing and the people start demanding more. We went through this entire process once with WoW and see where it got us.

[Deleted]

No, it did not work this way, with the exception of the TBC pre-patch, horde could not get paladin tier items, and alliance could not get shaman tier items.

I remember it the same way. Didn't raid in vanilla but I remember people started complaining after the pre-patch that Paladin tier was dropping for Horde and Shaman tier dropping for Alliance.

There is no way this was happening before the pre-patch, since I also remember everyone losing their shit when they found out Horde would get Paladins and Alliance would get Shamans. Back then that was huge.

[parcus]

I agree, go with something safe.

The real questions for me are Elysium-like changes, particularly Black Lotus spawn rate, I would absolutely want to see the Black Lotus spawn rate increased like Elysium did as they are super cancer and a much bigger proportion of the playerbase will care about them than what happened in retail.

The Black Lotus spawn rate in elysium was increased due to the increased player cap on the server, not to make it more accessible.

- - - Updated - - -

-Raid drops, will you be happy raiding MC and bosses only dropping 2 items, sometimes for a Shaman/Paladin that you can't use? This means when BWL and other raids come out, it will still be a requirement to raid older tiers (which isn't really a bad thing).

This is the only change I think could be changed. Something along the lines of 1-2 extra gear pieces per boss. Perhaps buff raid bosses and make them harder to compensate for this. It was increadibly frustrating not getting a piece of gear for a month at times! BC was much more lenient with this and was a great expansion regardless.

[Deleted]

The only change you mentioned that would probably be acceptable is removing the possibility of shaman/pally gear dropping from bosses for the opposite faction.

That was a thing only in the BC pre patch actually.

[parcus]

That was a thing only in the BC pre patch actually.

No, that is not true. For the SET pieces, yes. But there were a couple of plate with intelect and shammy mail (often this was still useful for pallies, but not always) that dropped on both sides.

[owbu]

Yes to everything gameplay related. I really want classic again. The tediousnes is part of the reason its charming.

Do you really want crap UI addons?

I would honestly be happiest with just a couple of old addons, but not the game breaking ones that existed back then (super decursive, healbot), being selectable from the starting screen. I assume modern day moddern with 12 years of experience would otherwise be too good at turning old school dungeoning into modern day dbming. And vannilas mechanics werent all that complicated to begin with.

[Wiedzemir]

And vannilas mechanics werent all that complicated to begin with.

I would go even further and say that in comparison to the most of the modern boss encounters, the vanilla ones were rather simplistic. Most of the times it was gear check for tanks or DPS. There are only a couple of instances where encounters required some specific semi-complex cooperation.

[Deleted]

Questions
-Do you really want to drink after buffing (when in sufficient gear, I still think classes should have the items in their bag)?
-Do you really want crap UI addons? (by UI addons I mean graphic only, but don't kid yourself, all vanilla bosses are simple compared to today and we know all tactics. Addons like quest helper exist on private servers, so that means they will exist on the classic, what is missing is up to date graphic UI addons).
-Raid drops, will you be happy raiding MC and bosses only dropping 2 items, sometimes for a Shaman/Paladin that you can't use? This means when BWL and other raids come out, it will still be a requirement to raid older tiers (which isn't really a bad thing).
-As a warlock will you be happy grinding kills before every the raid, to hand out HSs and trade them individually?
-Mages, will you be happy to trade your entire raid individually to give them water?
-No dual spec? I remember having tanks do nothing but dps (well you can call it dps I guess) because a fight didn't require a certain amount of tanks. People didn't like respeccing due to the cost back in the day, but private servers have shown that it is easy to make gold when you know what to do.
-I'm unsure about the length of Paladin buffs (I played Horde, but in TBC I always enjoyed annoying my Paladins for the Salvation buff to be renewed via macros).
-Windfury totem should definitely remain

Yes to all of those.

[Deleted]

Im going to give my opinion(what i would want to happen). I am pretty sure, people that are asking for classic servers,know what they are getting themselves into(ex:classes not working,grind etc), so its only fair to not touch the client at all. Let it be as it is/was,because i think(my opinion) is what makes vanilla have its charm. And i saw at the q&a, someone asked how will they aproach it, i think they should just put the last patch (1.12.1). That way, the only work they will have to do is server side(fixing bugs/exploits?).

[Wannacookie]

So why was it a big deal during the pre patch, when everyone started complaining about this very issue, since blood elves and draenei were still technically locked away but the loot started dropping.



"A few different folks have reported in the Blizzard forums that some pally gear has been dropping for the Horde in the raid instances, and shammy gear has been dropping for the Alliance. Is it January 16th yet? Can I go ahead and make that Blood Elf pally? Uh....no. "

I guess I'm just remembering it wrong.

Shaman Tier 1 Gear absolutely dropped in Molten Core at least for Alliance. I don't recall if it happened in BWL as well or had been fixed by then.

[Tekkommo]

Other point to bring up is servers.

Would you prefer there to be individual servers like they were back then, or one huge mega server split by regions. I would prefer the latter, as I can see servers dying a short while after release. There will be a huge amount of people playing at first, and many won't continue. If you choose the wrong server you may be forced to pay to switch servers (but we can hope that would be free), but then that leads to, should server transfers be allowed?

We heard about their plan for pve and pvp servers, can you see this being deployed as well?

All of the above would be bad for RPers, not into RP myself, but I respect there is a crowd that do.

Server caps? Look at what Nost did for example, leading to increase in spawn rates.

[Azadina]

priests would kill very slowly, but would have healing and big mana regen so they would never need to stop ; etc.).

Which game did you play? Why do I have extremely distinct memory of constantly being oom, and having to wand mobs when leveling a priest. And drinking after every mob or two because of being out of mana.

[MMKing]

Hopefully @Tekkommo they will be fairly lenient in the beginning with transfers etc, allowing everyone a freebie token for the first few months or so. But while there is a gold limit on transfers in classic wow, they should implement some sort of item transfer restrictions as well if they intend to give everyone a free transfer to account for unstable player base in the first few months.

As for some ''sensible discussions about classic''.

Patch 1.11 implemented the following change to Alterac Valley.
- Most of the NPC guard units have been removed.

Which sort of ended the classic long lasting AV battles, as it became possible for relatively small groups of player to bypass the opposition and seize graveyards and towers without significant NPC resistance. I hope Blizzard sees the wisdom in retaining the classic AV experience, because even after the change you still went to WSG and AB for quicker honor gain anyway.

Patch 1.10 implemented some significant item changes.
-Many items in Blackrock Depths, Stratholme, Scholomance, and Blackrock Spire have been re-evaluated and adjusted to make them more appealing. In addition several new items have been added to all of these instances.

Dire Maul in patch 1.3 also added some very powerful items compared to what one would previously acquire prior to entering the Molten core. In the interest of keeping Molten Core vaguely challenging, there has to be some restrictions on some items, which quite frankly trivialize Molten Core.

They also added some crafted items later on, while expensive and time consuming to acquire. It was possible to acquire them through solo play, and they are so powerful i will list them.
Lionheart helm - 18 strength, 2% crit, 1% hit. Nothing else in the game comes close for DPS warrior, not even Naxxramas gear.
Titanic Leggings - 30 strength, 2% hit, 1% crit. Plate legs from Heigan the unclean in Naxxramas compares.

They also added some quite powerful enchants later on such as +15 agility on 1h and +25 agility on 2h weapons. Ahn'Qiarji 20 man and Zul'Gurub also added some powerful enchants and items not accounted for when Blackwing lair was released. They were released later on as more casual 20 man experienced, intended to give the casual player some raiding experience and to boost some guild struggling through Blackwing Lair.

Eidt: I believe i mentioned this in another post as well. But we really need more control over chat channels, as they are a very integral part of managing a 40 man guild. Players need to be able to create channels with ease, administer them with admin privileges and preferably list them in the guild info tab with a quick join button so you don't have to mess around with the /join *channel name* system.

[FobManX]

What I'd like to see is classic gameplay for the most part, but with SOME modern updates. Keep things like class quests, long travel, purchasing skills etc. but maybe update things like mana/HP regen so youre not CONTANTLY having to drink.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

I am cool with fixing something that.. for example.. let gold sellers rain bodies from the sky and spell out there website on the ground in IF for people to go buy gold at. Yes, that is an OK fix. That was not a core function of classic. But to change gear, drops, and adding in current features totally defeats the purpose.

[Deleted]

What is Vanilla? Is it 1.12? 1.10? 1.21?

Personally I think Vanilla is about the community. It's about the quests. It's about not being hand-held. I don't think some class changes are going to be all that detrimental. The majority of people going back aren't going to remember specific talents. Make bears crit immune so they can tank raids. Give paladins a taunt. Hell, let mana regen in moonkin form. These changes are going to improve the experience for specific specs, but they aren't going to fundamentally change the ethos of the game, which is what is important.

[parcus]

What is Vanilla? Is it 1.12? 1.10? 1.21?

Personally I think Vanilla is about the community. It's about the quests. It's about not being hand-held. I don't think some class changes are going to be all that detrimental. The majority of people going back aren't going to remember specific talents. Make bears crit immune so they can tank raids. Give paladins a taunt. Hell, let mana regen in moonkin form. These changes are going to improve the experience for specific specs, but they aren't going to fundamentally change the ethos of the game, which is what is important.

Paladins didn't need a taunt, that was part of the reason why it was fun to play a prot pally back in vanilla! My guild had a bear tank, they don't need to be immune to crits... heck, even our warriors got one shot by bosses sometimes. That BS doesn't belong in vanilla. If there is one thing they ABSOLUTELY can't change it is class balance. If they decide to release more content to vanilla LATER ON (well after naxx is cleared by most people), then it might be ok to rebalance classes.

[Akka]

Which game did you play? Why do I have extremely distinct memory of constantly being oom, and having to wand mobs when leveling a priest. And drinking after every mob or two because of being out of mana.

Probably the same reason why people are all shocked when I tell them that spirit is good on warrior for leveling. I can also play a rogue spending all my energy on damage move and ignoring CC, I'll be able to kill mob a bit faster but I'll spend three times as much times healing after each or every other mob.
You played a certain way and you somehow think that no other way exists.

The way I play a priest, I use shield + one or two magic attack on a mob, then I wand it to death, maybe throw another shield and/or renew during the fight, and I'm back to full mana and full life for the next mob.

What I'd like to see is classic gameplay for the most part, but with SOME modern updates. Keep things like class quests, long travel, purchasing skills etc. but maybe update things like mana/HP regen so youre not CONTANTLY having to drink.

No.
Just. No.
That's an integral part of leveling, that's what made cooking actually useful, that's what made several builds/items useful.

Fuck the GOGOGO mentality of retail because people can't find way to adapt.