Mass shooting at church in Texas, shooter dead, multiple victims

[zenkai]

I've seen nothing to suggest that Stephen Willeford's intervention stopped the shooting. He saw him outside the church on the way to his pickup, after the massacre had already occurred. He was too late.

In fact the sound of the shots as he killed 26 people is what prompted him to retrieve his gun from his house.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-11-0...t-past/9125368

And frankly, considering the guy shot himself in the end - that's likely what would've happened regardless.

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Or maybe replace a system that doesn't work with one that does.

Since his in-laws weren't at the church, I bet he would have driven over to their house to finish them off. We will never know.

But one thing I highly believe, he wouldn't have just gone home, said "it's miller time" and never fired his gun at anyone ever again.

[Draco-Onis]

I never said we should be fine with this being normal, nor that we shouldn't do anything about it. We already have laws on the books that made every act that this guy did from beginning to end illegal, so I don't think more or more severe laws would have helped this situation.

First, we obviously need to fix whatever was broken that caused the background check that occurred in this instance to come back negative.

My middle ground is to suggest everyone get a license that enables them to purchase a gun. Similar to a drivers license that has to be renewed and can be revoked, but that would help with the private sales loophole that most states have. My proposed licensing process would be like what you go through to conceal carry, and it would include a required gun safety class & test.

That said, I can understand why a lot of folks are against licensing. We don't have a Constitutional Right to drive a car or go hunting, so it's not a 100% fair comparison. So I can understand the counter argument against licensing people to be able to buy and trade firearms. That said, it's a compromise I'd be willing to make.

That is a reasonable stance to take though it seems most don't want anything to change with the failing status quo.

[Ragedaug]

That is a reasonable stance to take though it seems most don't want anything to change with the failing status quo.

They are knee-jerking to the Left's knee jerk anytime anyone has a story about a mass shooting.

Before we can even wait to hear what happened, so we could have any idea of what could have stopped this the Left are ready and willing to abolish the 2nd Amendment. We don't even have enough time to mourn the dead before we have to start defending the Constitution.

[Draco-Onis]

They are knee-jerking to the Left's knee jerk anytime anyone has a story about a mass shooting.

Before we can even wait to hear what happened, so we could have any idea of what could have stopped this the Left are ready and willing to abolish the 2nd Amendment. We don't even have enough time to mourn the dead before we have to start defending the Constitution.

You will always have extremist most of the left want us to do the very basic we are not doing. Second that stance about mourning the dead doesn't seem to apply to terrorism on the right. Let's face it we all know how this plays out nothing will get done as with Las Vegas, we will be at this again when the next big mass shooting happens. I say big mass shooting because there are so many that we only bother with the ones with a large body count.

[Ragedaug]

You will always have extremist most of the left want us to do the very basic we are not doing. Second that stance about mourning the dead doesn't seem to apply to terrorism on the right. Let's face it we all know how this plays out nothing will get done as with Las Vegas, we will be at this again when the next big mass shooting happens. I say big mass shooting because there are so many that we only bother with the ones with a large body count.

Why don't we all agree to mourn the innocent dead regardless of who they are and who murdered them, then once the emotion and passion has had a chance to play out, and cooler heads prevail we can start talking about better policy using logic and critical thinking?

I never understand the excuse, "but the other side does bad things" as an excuse to do the bad things yourself. You know you don't like it and think it's wrong when the other side does the bad things...why would you do the same things yourself?

[Daelak]

Since his in-laws weren't at the church, I bet he would have driven over to their house to finish them off. We will never know.

But one thing I highly believe, he wouldn't have just gone home, said "it's miller time" and never fired his gun at anyone ever again.

His grandmother in law was at the church, and he murdered her, so no, after walking up and down the aisle for 2 minutes shooting everyone, he wouldn't have had time to kill more people, especially in a town of 400. He inflicted the maximum amount of casualty in that town because that is where the highest concentration of people were at on a sunday morning.

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Why don't we all agree to mourn the innocent dead regardless of who they are and who murdered them, then once the emotion and passion has had a chance to play out, and cooler heads prevail we can start talking about better policy using logic and critical thinking?

I never understand the excuse, "but the other side does bad things" as an excuse to do the bad things yourself. You know you don't like it and think it's wrong when the other side does the bad things...why would you do the same things yourself?

Because that never occurs due to the gun lobby writing checks to ensure no floor debate even occurs, which is a travesty of democracy yet conservatives revel in it, because they want to dismantle democratic ideals in favor of a authoritarian state.

[zenkai]

His grandmother in law was at the church, and he murdered her, so no, after walking up and down the aisle for 2 minutes shooting everyone, he wouldn't have had time to kill more people, especially in a town of 400. He inflicted the maximum amount of casualty in that town because that is where the highest concentration of people were at on a sunday morning.

So you're saying he wouldn't have gone after his other in-laws? I highly doubt that.

[Ragedaug]

So you're saying he wouldn't have gone after his other in-laws? I highly doubt that.

Yeah, as soon as you settle your debts with your in-laws by taking out their matriarch (Grandma), then you are done. Everyone knows that.

[Kalador]

Why don't we all agree to mourn the innocent dead regardless of who they are and who murdered them, then once the emotion and passion has had a chance to play out, and cooler heads prevail we can start talking about better policy using logic and critical thinking?

I never understand the excuse, "but the other side does bad things" as an excuse to do the bad things yourself. You know you don't like it and think it's wrong when the other side does the bad things...why would you do the same things yourself?

No one will talk about it in a few days... People forget and move on... Also the argument of we need to have all the facts is beyond stupid in this cases... You have a mass shooting every day in the us. All the facts have been there for a while now. Outside of the fact that your country bans public founded research on gun violence, every info you may want to act on weapon regulations is there.

[Daelak]

So you're saying he wouldn't have gone after his other in-laws? I highly doubt that.

No, because he specifically threatened her, and since he was a loser piece of shit who enjoyed the "tacticool" life, he wanted to commit an atrocity because life is so so hard as a underemployed white man who likes to abuse puppies and infants. The police department is down the road from them, and he didn't murder all the people in the annex wing of the church since he stayed in the chapel, they called the police and he would of been shot on site within minutes. The other good samaritans actually increased the time for law enforcement to understand what was going on.

[Ghostpanther]

So you're saying he wouldn't have gone after his other in-laws? I highly doubt that.

That is what some like to think. They have a hard time or a total refusal to admit a good person with a gun can save lives.

[Ragedaug]

Because that never occurs due to the gun lobby writing checks to ensure no floor debate even occurs, which is a travesty of democracy yet conservatives revel in it, because they want to dismantle democratic ideals in favor of a authoritarian state.

Yeah right. There's no gun laws. Congressmen never discuss and pass gun laws. um....yeah...just uh...yeah. I got nothing. you are so wrong I'm not even sure where to start. oh well. You got me.

well...you did mention the Authoritarian State part...so I can address that. The first thing an authoritarian state does is disarm it's populace. You can't exactly be authoritarian when your population can just fight back. It's like you are living in some bizzaro world where up is down or some such. So you submit that they want everyone to have guns so that the government can be in complete 100% authoritarian control? I'm guessing you don't sound your ideas out before proposing them.

So yeah, the authoritarian state argument is meant to scare people into giving up their rights to the state so the state can be? ...can you guess? The answer is "authoritarian".

[Daelak]

Yeah, as soon as you settle your debts with your in-laws by taking out their matriarch (Grandma), then you are done. Everyone knows that.

Unless you have some other damning evidence that the FBI doesn't feel free to share his motivations to somehow empty five more magazines without police being on top of him? He was there to kill her and everyone she loved, her church family, not to go on some spontaneous act of terror in a town he isn't even from.

[zenkai]

No, because he specifically threatened her, and since he was a loser piece of shit who enjoyed the "tacticool" life, he wanted to commit an atrocity because life is so so hard as a underemployed white man who likes to abuse puppies and infants. The police department is down the road from them, and he didn't murder all the people in the annex wing of the church since he stayed in the chapel, they called the police and he would of been shot on site within minutes. The other good samaritans actually increased the time for law enforcement to understand what was going on.

I am sick of your racist post and the mods not doing anything about it. You're not worth replying too you racist POS.


[Infracted]

[Ragedaug]

Unless you have some other damning evidence that the FBI doesn't feel free to share his motivations to somehow empty five more magazines without police being on top of him? He was there to kill her and everyone she loved, her church family, not to go on some spontaneous act of terror in a town he isn't even from.

Yep, that was it. You figured out what he was thinking. Here the rest of us are trying to look at evidence...but fortunately we have you. You figured out it was Grandma he was after the whole time. The rest of the deaths and shooting...a ruse, so we would be distracted from his real goal. Killing Grandma.

[Daelak]

Yeah right. There's no gun laws. Congressmen never discuss and pass gun laws. um....yeah...just uh...yeah. I got nothing. you are so wrong I'm not even sure where to start. oh well. You got me.

well...you did mention the Authoritarian State part...so I can address that. The first thing an authoritarian state does is disarm it's populace. You can't exactly be authoritarian when your population can just fight back. It's like you are living in some bizzaro world where up is down or some such. So you submit that they want everyone to have guns so that the government can be in complete 100% authoritarian control? I'm guessing you don't sound your ideas out before proposing them.

So yeah, the authoritarian state argument is meant to scare people into giving up their rights to the state so the state can be? ...can you guess? The answer is "authoritarian".

Look at it on the national and the state level in republican held states; they write the checks to ensure no substantial debate is even considered because then it may expose the public to both law enforcement agencies that have proven studies and policies that could curb these atrocities, as well as the advent of additional funding into understanding all types of firearm violence from a disease angle.

No, the authoritarian style that conservatives froth at the mouth for is the one where the federal government is toothless against state actions that hurts their citizens, like desegregation and unfettered gun ownership.

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I am sick of your racist post and the mods not doing anything about it. You're not worth replying too you racist POS.

It isn't racist, that's the reality. He couldn't hold a job, couldn't hold the duty of an enlisted airman, couldn't hold the duty of being a father, or a fucking pet owner.

[Ragedaug]

Look at it on the national and the state level in republican held states; they write the checks to ensure no substantial debate is even considered because then it may expose the public to both law enforcement agencies that have proven studies and policies that could curb these atrocities, as well as the advent of additional funding into understanding all types of firearm violence from a disease angle.

No, the authoritarian style that conservatives froth at the mouth for is the one where the federal government is toothless against state actions that hurts their citizens, like desegregation and unfettered gun ownership.

HAHAHAHAHA......HAHAHAHAHAHA


The authoritarian government they want is a powerless government?


Yup, up is down. You are the winner. It's like you don't know words have meanings.

[Daelak]

Yep, that was it. You figured out what he was thinking. Here the rest of us are trying to look at evidence...but fortunately we have you. You figured out it was Grandma he was after the whole time. The rest of the deaths and shooting...a ruse, so we would be distracted from his real goal. Killing Grandma.

No, he threatened her via text, then drove over there to ensure everyone she knew and love from her "church family" would be murdered in front of her eyes.

[sarahtasher]

For people that claim that '' a good guy with a gun'' saved the situation :according to most reports, the culprit was shot after he had killed 26 people and wounded 20 others in the church and left the church

[Daelak]

HAHAHAHAHA......HAHAHAHAHAHA


The authoritarian government they want is a powerless government?


Yup, up is down. You are the winner. It's like you don't know words have meanings.

Yeah they want to ensure that the federal government is unable to protect citizens from the actions of their state. This is exactly the premise modern conservatism was founded upon; because they despised desegregation and the "federal overreach" of the federal court system and military.