With todays player knowledge, skill and tech, will raids and dungeons be roflstomped?

[Lazuli]

It's a lot of work to get into end game and begin raiding in vanilla, the boss mechanics aren't really what make it difficult but the large amount of players required makes the odds of fucking up pretty high. Vanilla is an entirely different game, it has its own walls to climb over and since gear isn't thrown at you like on retail it's gonna be interesting to see the statistics. The majority definitely will not be raiding I can say that for sure. Even the leveling dungeons are going to kick a lot of players asses because you have to CC and pull very few mobs or even 1 at a time or it's a wipe.

I mean we can just look at cata heroics and see that even small amount of difficulty and CC requirements destroy most PuGs. So while we may be more 'skilled' it's a different ball game. If you are pro at basketball it don't make you pro at football even though they're both sports.

[clevin]

I always love the 'players today make people who played 10 years ago look like crap' argument, as if video games and good players were only born a decade ago. Kids, people have been playing video games since the 80s (longer, but let's stick with that). The argument that people are far better today is really just the new kids believing everything now is better than what came before. Every generation does this... it's kind of cute.

Addons *might* make the raids more trivial but it depends what they expose in the Classic API. Will it be just the stuff Classic had or everything we have now?

But yeah, I expect that if the Classic servers are really close to what Vanilla actually was that the raids will be about as hard. If they change much... who knows?

[The Cheat]

I'd suggest reading some of the points in the OP of this thread: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...t-could-happen

If the servers were to deploy as 1.12 it would most certainly make at the least MC and BWL much easier than they were when they had their respective original releases, as finding gear that was equal to or better than MC and some of BWL was made easier by 1.12. The back end of AQ40 (at least) and Naxx will probably still feel a little difficult, but it just depends on how many good people you're bringing.

[pateuvasiliu]

there isnt a single hard to execute mechanic in the entirety of MC and BWL

The tanking of the drakes and Chromaggus isn't exactly simple and one second of lag on tranqing Chromaggus' enrage results in a wipe.

[Seramore]

one second of lag on tranqing Chromaggus' enrage results in a wipe.

That... isn't mechanically hard to execute.

[pateuvasiliu]

That... isn't mechanically hard to execute.

Nothing in WoW is mechanically hard to execute, but that encounter required very good communication between hunters ( as they could be stunned ) as well as the raid since Time Lapse could easily fuck your shit up.

[MMKing]

Assuming the items available at launch will be the ones available during patch 1.0, i expect a fair bit of difficulty progressing through Molten core. Though i can't imagine Blizzard making lots of patches for all of the talent changes, meaning we will probably be stuck with talents from the latest patch or something.

Will the bosses themselves be difficult? No, it's mostly a communication and gear check.

[Whiskra]

One fight. Its probably at most as complicated as a middle difficulty boss in Legion. If you have ever done Mistress you wouldn't be combating that claim. The game is objectively more complicated now, and a lot of it is derived from RNG. But a fight like Maiden Mythic will set all that straight. Essentially 2 mechanics happening every 15 seconds. If a SINGLE ONE is handled improperly, every single player will die.

There is nothing like that in Classic.

Kel'thuzad is a lot harder than Four Horsemen, and by far the hardest encounter in Vanilla. It's basically a compilation boss that combined all the common mechanics that players would regularly face in Vanilla (except dispelling/decursing) like for example threat and crowd control, turned the knob up to 11 and made it into a clusterfuck of a fight that requires perfect control on every aspect to not wipe on, not to mention a lot of luck. Sure, it would probably be quite a simple fight if you just threw it into a Legion raid, especially considering all the tools people have to deal with all that crap nowadays, but it's actually quite insane for a Vanilla encounter.

[SilenceRedo]

I think the problem stems from the fact that when people say "Vanilla was harder and slower", they mean leveling and the overall experience, not raids in particular. Even Naxx wasn't farmed by most people simply because there wasn't enough time between it and TBC. However, when today's player hears "Vanilla was harder and slower" he thinks about raids because raids became all there is in WoW for many years, raiding is the pinnacle and the endgame of WoW nowadays. That was not the case in vanilla.

I can get that. But still, raiding focus people existed back then also. And it's not like it became this way relatively reciently, in TBC raiding (and rated arenas for pvpeers, oh what a clusterfuck were arenas in tbc) was raid centric.

I'm not into and never were into cassual endgame, and that's the reason I keep playing wow after almost 12 years, raiding.

[shaunika123]

That's just stupid. Doesn't matter how top 10 you are, your tank is still going to get 1-shot by later bosses in MC sans fire resist gear which you can't have until farming the earlier portions of MC for a bit. I'm guessing that you weren't actually there when it was current and you just think you're better because you're a "modern raider".

you can get plenty of fire res from outside MC, you can also get thorium brotherhood recipe for the fire res gear, and buy the dark iron etc from AH.

you dont actually need to go into MC for it. and if you really want you can still MC distribute the fire res buff at UBRS to circumvent it the lack of fire res.


no need to make assumptions about what i did or did not do in vanilla, especially when you're dead wrong.

- - - Updated - - -

Tell that to 4 horsemen

already explained 4 horseman.

for anyone that wasnt a tank it was "if ur at blameux stay out of shit, if ur at zeliek spread out, and if ur at kortazz stick together" and then swap when your mark is too high

if you were a tank, then you also had to press taunt and pray you don't miss, but that praying part isnt actually a skill thing.

4horseman was punishing as fuck sure, but it didnt punish mistakes, it punished being unlucky

admittedly it's more complex than some normal bosses. but it doesnt even come close to mythic ones.

as i said, devizing a strategy for a lot of vanilla bosses wasnt easy, but executing those strategies was, and now we all know the strategies.

[Floofi]

Similar to Cataclysm dungeons at launch, I feel like the initial difficulty will come from the sudden change in playstyles compared to retail. After the initial launch period when everyone finishes readjusting to new (old) mechanics like threat, I can see dungeons/raids being completed much faster/cleaner.

[Whiskra]

already explained 4 horseman.

for anyone that wasnt a tank it was "if ur at blameux stay out of shit, if ur at zeliek spread out, and if ur at kortazz stick together" and then swap when your mark is too high

if you were a tank, then you also had to press taunt and pray you don't miss, but that praying part isnt actually a skill thing.

4horseman was punishing as fuck sure, but it didnt punish mistakes, it punished being unlucky

That's quite a simplification. Each of the horsemen had an ability each that was extremely lethal if dealt with incorrectly. Thane would quite easily mess up your ideal rotation since his meteor would very rarely line up with the mark timer, and if you messed it up, there were guaranteed deaths. Blaumeux void zones were practically instagibs, so if someone forgot to or was unable pop shadow protection potion, it was a gamble moving into close proximity of her. Mograine would just melt tanks with his righteous fire, so healers needed to be on the ball at all times. Zeliek's holy wrath was easy to deal with except if it lined up with the rotation timing wrong, because if someone positioned themselves wrong on rotation and holy wrath was set to be cast just as the rotation was happening, it could basically chain the entire raid ala C'thun.

[Seramore]

Nothing in WoW is mechanically hard to execute, but that encounter required very good communication between hunters ( as they could be stunned ) as well as the raid since Time Lapse could easily fuck your shit up.

Right on bud, but you and I both know there's a pretty big difference between an actual difficult mechanic and having a tight timeframe to hit an ability on a target that anyone from the same class can do.

[Queen of Hamsters]

A small percentage of the population did any kind of end game raiding and far less stepped into Naxx and those that cleared was even less. I also don't suspect most people to play longer than a month. So the population will be very small and you'll get 200k tops playing. So you might get one or two groups to do it in a decent time, but most will give up by MC or right after.

Doesn't hold true for Classic private servers, won't hold true on an official server that'll never be at risk of shutting down.

So few people cleared Naxx due to the time table of patches and TBC rolling out while a majority of the population was busy just getting to max level. These factors are not a part of a Classic server perpetually stuck in that iteration.

Anyone wanting to raid, should strive to do so on the Classic server. You'll need time and patience, but in return you'll find an inclusive community with far less need to be the type of player that min-maxes everything to death. At least, I hope that'll carry over to the Official server... <.<

[Archon14]

I'm pretty sure there will be guilds coming from retail or private servers, prepared with all possible shortcuts, all from leveling, gearing, professions, etc.

It won't be like that for most people who play Classic I guess, but I'm sure there will be at least one group roflstomping everything.

There will probably be people doing that in pvp too.

[Lamora]

I always love the 'players today make people who played 10 years ago look like crap' argument, as if video games and good players were only born a decade ago. Kids, people have been playing video games since the 80s (longer, but let's stick with that). The argument that people are far better today is really just the new kids believing everything now is better than what came before. Every generation does this... it's kind of cute.

It's the same people though. A pretty solid chunk out of the raiding population has been raiding for years and years, and the people that have joined along the way have learned from them. Do you really think people play the same game for a more than decade without improving? I can tell you that 2017-me would run circles around 2005-me.

[epLe]

So few people cleared Naxx due to the time table of patches and TBC rolling out

Yes Naxx was shortlived in Vanilla, but it was still the current raid for half a year.

So if it been current for a year like HFC/SoO, maybe 0.002% would clear it instead of 0.001%.

The real tiered raid model used in Vanilla is was caused this.

[Eon Drache]

Some private servers have naxx cleared 8 months after opening up now. I don't raid on them so idk how authenitic those experiences are but to go from starting a character to naxx cleared in 8 months is VERY different from how vanilla was haha. I think it will definitely clear MUCH faster this time as a lot of people know the fights, there are better guides to the fights and classes now and the skill of players in general have gone up a ton since vanilla.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Yes Naxx was shortlived in Vanilla, but it was still the current raid for half a year.

So if it been current for a year like HFC/SoO, maybe 0.002% would clear it instead of 0.001%.

The real tiered raid model used in Vanilla is was caused this.

You still have the fact of the playerbase being so heavily made up of players still working on getting to 60, so it still doesn't apply to today where there are guides on where to go to level most efficiently, players having all the collected knowledge on this game + Classic servers forever having Naxx 40 available for all to strive towards.

That is, of course, from the moment they make Naxx 40 available. If they start with 1.0 and release patches subsequently, it'll be a while.

- - - Updated - - -

Some private servers have naxx cleared 8 months after opening up now. I don't raid on them so idk how authenitic those experiences are but to go from starting a character to naxx cleared in 8 months is VERY different from how vanilla was haha. I think it will definitely clear MUCH faster this time as a lot of people know the fights, there are better guides to the fights and classes now and the skill of players in general have gone up a ton since vanilla.

Add to that the fact that some are bound to go all-in to be the first clearing official Classic raids.

I'm actually looking forward to that race.

[Deleted]

we had ppl not making the jump at Thaddius every other attempt, this was a 6days raiding guild 5 hours a day
dont underestimate the power of stupidity:P