Blue confirmed they're considering balancing specs

[Typhoria]

Class balance->Content possibly rebalanced -> End of slope.

Where is the line drawn though? Having bosses hit harder and have more health doesn't make it any more difficult when every class is moreso equal. New mechanics would have to be made to compensate.
At that point they might as well make a new game.

[BryanGTR]

I always go back to counterstrike. Counterstrike has been the same exact game since the beginning with very small interface and graphical changes, people love CS, it's still one of the most popular played/streamed competitive FPS's.

If CS had a remotely similar change cycle as WoW, you might as well play the new Battlefront, latest CoD, or Halo.

It's going to be the exact same thing with classic vanilla servers. Too many changes you might as well not play it, it becomes utterly pointless, for anyone.

[Laqweeta]

You are insane if you think any private server that is able to attract a decent playerbase will survive Blizz having "World Of Warcraft :Classic" available. Any that grow big enough to be known will be known by Blizz. The cease and desist will hit so fast your head will spin, the only reason that private servers survived for this long was they were not competing directly with Blizz with Blizz's own IP, now that they would be? Blizz ain't ignoring that.

Warmane won't go anywhere.

[Katchii]

IMO class balancing needs to happen. Class balance was completely broken back then, there's really no real reason to leave things THAT broken when they know how to fix it without completely breaking the game play experience.

Vanilla was pretty great, but it certainly wasn't perfect, why are some people so opposed to the idea that the problems Vanilla had should be fixed to make what Vanilla was even better?

Inb4 "because then it's not Vanilla." That's not a real argument considering the name of the server is Classic and the fact that the thread linked in the OP even exists. Blizzard will be discussing this as part of the server implementation. If what exactly was going to be implemented was already decided, the discussion wouldn't be happening as it would just be a matter of HOW to implement it, not WHAT to implement.

[denisgsv]

Is this actually something he said? Holy shit that's awesome. Please leave it unchanged.

https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/...g_for/dpuampl/

so its saved for future links

[Eurhetemec]

Classes might be balanced blue confirmed https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/...9242036?page=7

Wow, way to lie.

A Blue poster said it was "worth discussing", and you change that to "might be balanced". If you can't see the huge difference between those two things, that is quite concerning.

And later on indeed Ornyx does clarify that this is merely a discussion.

Personally, having played Vanilla for pretty much the whole time it existed, I think they should drop in unaltered Vanilla mechanics for the inevitable long Beta of Classic, and see how it goes.

Modern players with those mechanics may perform VERY differently to how we did back then. They may make much better use of them. They may make some sub-viable classes/specs very viable through tricks and peculiar gearing. They may make other specs or even entire classes completely invalid.

But that's what Beta should be for - seeing if they do need to change anything, and it may not be to buff stuff!

[Deleted]

I don't play on private servers. But, do you know anything about business? Would you rather make another game for your current consumers, or put together an old game and have non-subscribers come back as well as having your current subscribers? What sounds better, 150 million a month or 350 million a month? You think Blizzard is doing all of this out of kindness or because they suddenly started to listen "We've heard you"? The account man ran the numbers and they decided to get back old players because it's a fuck load of money for a small amount of work.

I have no idea about Blizzards business model and with regards to WoW it's failed spectacularly in terms of sub retention. I would think however, when you have 100 million old subs to try and restore you are going to put in a larger amount of work to try and restore a larger number of them, rather than doing the bare minimum.

[Morbownz]

I haven't read the link but with title's including words like "confirmed" you really don't need to. Flying will be next, then LFR and Transmog.

[Nalgene]

How about you just play retail if you want "balanced" (a.k.a. homogenized) classes? Trying to balance the classes would likely fundamentally change the entire experience, which you might enjoy, but which would in no way be an authentic vanilla experience, which is Blizzard's goal with WoW Classic.

Firstly, I agree to an extent that developers should leave WoW Classic as Vanilla as they can in terms of game play, raiding content, and PvP. There are some quality of life changes in the game they could make without upsetting the balance. Easiest one would be to increase quest experience slightly to allow the quests to get you to 60 instead of having to mindlessly grind the last 5 levels.
Balancing Specs to make certain classes/specs more viable in all aspects of the game (PvP & PvE) is probably one of the biggest changes they can and should make. This would draw in MORE people to play it and create a good community. I know it's not what the 1% of the wow community wants to hear that have been screaming for vanilla for years, but it would be in the best interest of the game for longevity.

Secondly, I am tired of seeing people post phrases like: 'Which is Blizzard's Goal with WoW Classic'. HOW DO ANY OF YOU KNOW?!?! There is not even a development team put together yet to express ideas and intentions with WoW Classic. And yes, if they make changes to the game that deviates from what Vanilla was then in those peoples eyes "It's no longer classic"/crymeariver. . . Vanilla had lots of things people loved, and lots of things people hated.

Lastly, I for one can't wait to see what they come up with once they begin announcing their ACTUAL intentions for WoW Classic. As much fun as I had playing Vanilla I am not expecting to see the same game exactly the way it was.

[Deleted]

Easiest one would be to increase quest experience slightly to allow the quests to get you to 60 instead of having to mindlessly grind the last 5 levels.

Why shouldn't the 5 last levels be a grind? That's the authentic experience, there is no reason to change that. If you don't like that type of gameplay, then don't play WoW Classic.

Balancing Specs to make certain classes/specs more viable in all aspects of the game (PvP & PvE) is probably one of the biggest changes they can and should make.

This would be an absolute deal-breaker for me. I have no doubt balancing the specs would have endless unpredictable second order effects that would transform the entire experience into something completely different than vanilla. Not every class/spec could do everything in vanilla. And that is perfectly fine. For example, if you want to be able to raid as a feral, play live, because feral was not a raid spec in vanilla and should not be made into one in WoW Classic.

This would draw in MORE people to play it and create a good community.

I don't want a community of players that don't want to play vanilla. I want an authentic vanilla experience and a community of players that want that as well. Even if it's a small one. And it's not in Blizzard's interest to try to push live players into WoW Classic anyway, so it would be lose-lose.

Secondly, I am tired of seeing people post phrases like: 'Which is Blizzard's Goal with WoW Classic'. HOW DO ANY OF YOU KNOW?!?!

Because we listened to the announcement and they stated the goal is to provide an authentic vanilla experience. They said they will staff the team with people committed to making the most authentic experience possible. They have reiterated that in interviews.

[Deleted]

This would be an absolute deal-breaker for me. I have no doubt balancing the specs would have endless unpredictable second order effects that would transform the entire experience into something completely different than vanilla. Not every class/spec could do everything in vanilla. And that is perfectly fine. For example, if you want to be able to raid as a feral, play live, because feral was not a raid spec in vanilla and should not be made into one in WoW Classic.

Slippery slope fallacy. Also allowing someone to raid as feral in Vanilla inconveniences no one. Making them play a completely different game to the one they want to in order to raid as feral does.

I don't want a community of players that don't want to play vanilla. I want an authentic vanilla experience and a community of players that want that as well. Even if it's a small one. And it's not in Blizzard's interest to try to push live players into WoW Classic anyway, so it would be lose-lose.

If it's on the same sub or same price it makes no difference to Blizzard if a sub plays live or Classic. If it's a separate sub some may even pay for both.

Because we listened to the announcement and they stated the goal is to provide an authentic vanilla experience. They said they will staff the team with people committed to making the most authentic experience possible. They have reiterated that in interviews.

Give it up, you have no idea what Classic is going to end up as. Just like the rest of us. It looks like it's heading towards changes though from the direction of discussion and the fact that they said they will be working with community feedback.

[Deleted]

Slippery slope fallacy.

This has nothing at all to do with slippery slope. That would mean that making one change would cause them to make another. What I'm talking about are emergent behaviors where one change impacts the way the whole system works in completely unpredictable ways.

If it's on the same sub or same price it makes no difference to Blizzard if a sub plays live or Classic.

Even then people that play Classic won't be buying xpacs. I know I won't.

Give it up, you have no idea what Classic is going to end up as.

Give what up? I'm just stating what they have said about their goal for WoW Classic. Of course nobody knows what it will end up as, but we do know that their goal is to create as authentic vanilla experience as possible—not to make some modern retake on vanilla.

[Detheavn]

Vanilla was always just a nick name. It's always been classic.

Vanilla wasnt called vanilla when vanilla was vanilla.

Vanilla wasn't classic when vanilla was vanilla either

[Thimagryn]

I admit I'm really not keen to have someone who consider that the "hybrid tax" was a bad idea to have anything to do with balancing.
The balance was not really good, but it allowed classes to have their own character, and that's much more important to me. Last time Blizzard touched balance with classes, we got the horrible "every spec is a class but at the same time all classes feel the same".
No thanks. I'll keep the old design, warts and all.

I mean, if I was the designer myself, I WOULD make some changes. But probably not the same, and I don't trust the slippery slope. We want Classic. Let us have Classic.

This sounds like the opinion of someone who doesn't play a Hybrid. Try doing your best at a spec that is designed to fail at doing its job properly and see if you think the 'warts and all' are worth it when you've dedicated yourself to gear and spec for tanking only to be told you need to stand and innervate the priest and nothing else. There's really no reason why a tank who specs so should not be able to tank. It's not as though the person who chooses to be a Druid tank is taking a job away from Warriors, especially if they DEDICATE themselves to gearing and playing correctly.

With the way Vanilla was, each class would be unique but only because a majority of the specs are 'useless'. It's a cookie cutter system that I'm sure purists are comfortable with, but not everyone is happy with. I do think that having rebalancing as an optional server would be the best route for this, since preserving the 'Vanilla' experience is certainly what many people want, but I don't think in any way should impact us also having the option of more balanced servers either.

[Akka]

This sounds like the opinion of someone who doesn't play a Hybrid.

No, it sounds like the opinion of someone who recognize that a hybrid has the possibility to do plenty of things, and as such shouldn't be as good as specialists at each one.
I've played every single class save for DK and DH (I must have a problem with hero classes ) at max level, and I stay by my opinion.

[NihilSustinet]

Is a Ret Paladin or Feral Druid DPSing in your PvE content ruining your classic WoW experience? Jesus Christ.

Yes, in that it will no longer be the vanilla experience. btw, this is coming from someone who played resto druid all through vanilla, and switched to feral day 1 of TBC, and never looked back. i still want vanilla to be vanilla, even if i cant play the spec i played for what... 8 years?

[Thimagryn]

For example, if you want to be able to raid as a feral, play live, because feral was not a raid spec in vanilla and should not be made into one in WoW Classic.

I can get behind the sentiment, but I won't ever agree with that. This also means that Druids in general were only brought to provide Mark and Innervate. The heals were mediocre at best, and Priests being Innervated covered all that was needed for raid healing for the most part. I know this was the 'Vanilla experience' but honestly, how many people going into Classic will conciously opt to roll a class they know will end up being 'Support'? We didn't know better back in the day so there was no alternative to playing the class we've already leveled to 60. For people like me, we were stuck doing the jobs we didn't like because we had no choice; leveling an alt to raid wasn't even a question. Now it's different since I can look back and see all the bullshit, and going into a new Vanilla Experience I would avoid rolling those bullshit support classes. Who really wants to be the buff guy in the raid?

- - - Updated - - -

No, it sounds like the opinion of someone who recognize that a hybrid has the possibility to do plenty of things, and as such shouldn't be as good as specialists at each one.
I've played every single class save for DK and DH (I must have a problem with hero classes ) at max level, and I stay by my opinion.

Have you raided in Vanilla as a Hybrid? If so, did you enjoy it? Yes, hybrids can do plenty of things. Druid is damned fun! But when it comes down to doing the things you specialize in for the end-game, there is nothing to specialize in other than choosing the Innervate talent. There's a good reason why Druids were the least played class on Nost.

Druid populations started to explode in TBC, when all the balance changes were put in and Specs were actually able to fill roles.

[micwini]

Vanilla wasn't classic when vanilla was vanilla either

I guess. At least we had icecream

P.S don't change specs please

[Detheavn]

I guess. At least we had icecream

P.S don't change specs please

Weirdo, thinking there's multiple specs

[micwini]

Weirdo, thinking there's multiple specs

There were, just a lot were not very good. With picking your class you also picked a role immediately. Each class had their role already laid out.