Classic Market vs Classic Community.

[sunwrathmother]

So after many years facing a wall of "NO", "You think you do but you dont", we get classic...

Old Blizzard was extremely proud of the retail game and they were crystal clear they wont spend a single dollar on classic until Activision saw the potential and immediately thought to capitalise it!

Since then, we witnessed a 180 degree turn and we get a dedicated team to work on classic with 100% commitment on the original experience.
We have a classic demo, with devs actually working on our feedback.
We get a series of blue posts after 5 months of silence that are actually on the spot and sync with our feedback and our remarks.
We see that our voices are heard in a slow, but professional pace, showing that they take classic seriously.

That means they see potential in making money out of the classic community and classic hype. This is not a hasty release. Its a well calculated move from the company, an investment that is not for nostalgia or for pleasing the player base.
We kind of see where this is going, from posts like "Classic is going to save Retail" and similar ones. Activision however, knows a sub based online game is not profitable enough in today's gaming market.
WoW makes money through expansions (that's why they release a new one every two years. No matter how broken the expansion is, see BFA), their ingame shop with mounts/pets, character servies (or why do you think they went from new races every two expansions to a billion allied races? No new starting zones, barely any lore, just new skins and broken racials so people spend crazy sums to change their dozen characters) and the wow token (which makes the game literally pay to win, pay to achievement or pay to gear up).

The income from subs gets absolutely dwarfed by the money they make from character services and wow tokens in retail.
So it is possible, when Classic is released and they see people getting hooked, to add micro-transactions in the end patches. We need to expect this and be prepared.
We also need to be prepared for future changes and maybe classic expansions and more content.

So what is the bottom line?
Classic community is different than retail. Mentality wise, age wise ect.
It is a very close minded community with a very clear vision of the game, that help and support each other. Players know exactly what they want (thats a good thing) and what they DONT want to see in Classic. We have shown an incredible endurance all these years for the love of the original game over and over again despite the walls of "NO". We have proved that we can stand together and resist the new and shiny retail comforts. And now, classic dev team and player base is more on the same page than ever before!

On the other hand, retail wow dev team lack a clear vision of what the game should be like and they try to appeal to a lot of different groups in retail community all at once making WoW less and less attractive. So the player base is fundamentally more divided than EVER before in WoW history! The result is simple. Trying to make everybody happy is not working and numbers show exactly that!

My conclusion is obvious:
Our greater strength is our community. As long as we stay together we can guide the dev team into the right direction. From keeping a healthy communication and feedback, to boycot micro-transactions and other policies that can hinder our game experience.

I dont know where classic project can lead us in the future. Maybe after 5 years we can have some changes in game like extra zones, extra quests, easter eggs, or extra dungeons and raids, while keeping the core game intact. Or maybe not...
Whatever the case, we should be ready to deal with these things as one.
We should not become retail-like!

[stigz]

It would be nice if Blizzard got over themselves and let the community vote on what they want to see like Runescape did with their classic re-release

[tankbug]

Not convinced that they'll expand on he vanilla experience. Perhaps they'll launch TBC at some point, but that's it. The will not develop independent content for Classic.

[Khaza-R]

I doubt they would ever release new content. TBC and WotLk servers are very likely imo.

The only other thing I could potentially see happening is them releasing something that was already in game, like opening up Hyjal

[RoKPaNda]

They'll definitely find a way to monetize it, they have to get something for their efforts. I don't look forward to reading the forums that week.

I'd just like to point out though on your point about retail, them adding an endgame for people other than raiders in retail wasn't a bad thing. It was a very smart business decision. We know that subs have always been cyclical, just that up through WLK more new players were coming in than old ones going out. Adding new things for players other than us raiders to do every major content patch gets them some of those players back, even if only until they run out of content until the next content.

Classic WoW isn't going to have that. The vast majority of players are likely going to be players that already play WoW or that played WoW during classic. Once they run out of things to do, because raiding in Classic will still likely be the niche activity that it was in Vanilla, and they leave, there aren't new players to replace them, and there isn't anything to keep them coming back. Content patches in Vanilla WoW didn't reallu add anything compelling other than the new raid.

[AceofH]

It would be nice if Blizzard got over themselves and let the community vote on what they want to see like Runescape did with their classic re-release

No it wouldn't. I've seen where changes lead. You have an entire game with player wanted changes.

[Pu3Ho]

No it wouldn't. I've seen where changes lead. You have an entire game with player wanted changes.

Yeah, the community changes to Runescape lead to it's classic version having 1M of premium-users(literally a sub) - number never seen before, and "retail" literally died out. Pretty much the same thing which is right now happening to WoW.

[AceofH]

Yeah, the community changes to Runescape lead to it's classic version having 1M of premium-users(literally a sub) - number never seen before, and "retail" literally died out. Pretty much the same thing which is right now happening to WoW.

retail is dieing on its own. classic doesn't have to do anything for that to happen. it's the CHANGES that the COMMUNITY ASKED FOR that has been KILLING retail.

the goal of classic is to bring back an authentic vanilla for those who have spent over a decade asking for it.
i certainty don't view retail set to level 60 as anything authentic to vanilla.

[Sanguinerd]

It would be nice if Blizzard got over themselves and let the community vote on what they want to see like Runescape did with their classic re-release

You mean like flying and all the other QoL changes people now despise?

[AceofH]

You mean like flying and all the other QoL changes people now despise?

exactly. i can see a bunch of retail fans voting in flying and LFD and transmog and fucking it up for those who just want classic.

[Zyky]

Not convinced that they'll expand on he vanilla experience. Perhaps they'll launch TBC at some point, but that's it. The will not develop independent content for Classic.

Independent content, no. But they're already formulating QoL changes for the patch they're releasing with(like trade-able raid loot, which wasn't available in Molten Core). Not to mention, no matter how true to original that they make it, it will NEVER be the same experience as Vanilla. People know all of the bugs, all of the exploits, all of events now. It's not going to have the same feeling, especially with actual websites dedicated to highlighting WoW content, like mmo-champion or wowhead.

Not to mention the majority of people crying for Vanilla have only played on Private Servers, which even those weren't authentic Vanilla as they had to put in proc values for a lot of items and damage values for a lot of mobs(not to mention certain mobs missing entire abilities in their toolkit on private servers). People aren't going to get what they expected and it's not going to blow over well based off how whiny the "no change" community is.

[anon5123]

Classic is not being made for profit, it's being made as a preservation project. MMOs in general are already very niche. Super-grindy large-time-investment MMOs are even more niche.

After the initial rush of tourists dies down, I'd be surprised if we had 100-200k active players.

No, no new content. This is being launched as a preservation of 1.12 vanilla, not as a new game with new content. We already have retail for that.

Not to mention the majority of people crying for Vanilla have only played on Private Servers, which even those weren't authentic Vanilla as they had to put in proc values for a lot of items and damage values for a lot of mobs(not to mention certain mobs missing entire abilities in their toolkit on private servers). People aren't going to get what they expected and it's not going to blow over well based off how whiny the "no change" community is.

You do realize that private servers are 90-95% blizzlike, yes? Outside of small numbers/calculations like proc chances for certain items being slightly incorrect, the rest of the game (boss scripting, talents/abilities scripting, items, quests, etc) are all perfectly working and functional.

It's not going to be this massive world of difference like you are doomsaying.

[tru]

Not convinced that they'll expand on he vanilla experience. Perhaps they'll launch TBC at some point, but that's it. The will not develop independent content for Classic.

I don't think anyone ever claimed they would. But seriously if it does turn out more popular than retail what does that say about their current product? Do they spend even more money and time/resources to develop "new" content for retail. Or pad the vanilla crowd to keep the money coming in. Say half the player base switched...whats the incentive to spend millions and millions on new content for retail? I myself def want to give vanilla a good honest shot. I FOR SURE want to play BC again as a progression type game.

If they don't progress it whats the point? They are running off the same subscription payment for retail so no more money from there. And no paid services ? All they will have is sub numbers supporting vanilla.

[anon5123]

it's the CHANGES that the COMMUNITY ASKED FOR that has been KILLING retail.

Nobody asked for LFD.

Nobody asked for LFR.

Nobody asked for classes to be pruned of their abilities and homogenized.

Nobody asked for random drop legendaries.

Nobody asked for endless AP grinds.

Nobody asked for facebook-styled garrison shit.

Nobody asked for questing to be tightly on-rails and streamlined as fuck.

Nobody asked for itemization and gear to be simplified as "higher ilvl = upgrade"

Nobody asked for open world content to be piss easy.

etc. etc.

Also, "Changes" are not what killed retail, otherwise the game would have died halfway through vanilla. Changing TOO MUCH is what caused the downturn in subscriptions at Cataclysm, which as continued further and further with more and more changes in the wrong direction.

There are plenty of changes you could make to vanilla that would greatly improve it without hurting "muh vanilla expeerienz!!". Having the community vote on things like that doesn't sound like a bad idea. Runescape does the exact same thing as others pointed out.

You could literally just make it so that only people with level 60s can vote, and require something like 70% or 80% approval. Easy.

[PenguinChan]

Nobody asked for LFD.

Nobody asked for LFR.

Nobody asked for classes to be pruned of their abilities and homogenized.

Nobody asked for random drop legendaries.

Nobody asked for endless AP grinds.

Nobody asked for facebook-styled garrison shit.

Also, "Changes" are not what killed retail, otherwise the game would have died halfway through vanilla. Changing TOO MUCH is what caused the downturn in subscriptions at Cataclysm, which as continued further and further with more and more changes in the wrong direction.

While a lot of what you're saying is conjecture and just stating the obvious (Nobody wanted BGs, Nobody wanted talent reworks, etc. Same dumb shit); People asked for a LFD tool, and got it in TBC. Then in WotLK it was automated - and we got a much better manual-ish version on retail now. You're insane if you think people didn't ask for a much better option than spamming channels for groups.

The issue that I can see anyone pointing at is how Blizzard tends to take what people want and turns it up to 11. Not 7 or 8, but damn if they don't put it to 11. That's valid.

[nyc81991]

I think the best thing that could happen is they at least put out servers for TBC and WOTLK and the current WoW devs learn from what made that era so great. Then maybe they can start working on a WoW 2 with a new engine, using everything they've learned up to that point.

[Relapses]

Blizzard isn't looking to reinvent the wheel with Classic. Classic is not intended to replace retail. It's not intended to be a reboot. At the end of the day, all it does is increase the tangible value of a retail subscription because you're essentially subscribing to two entirely different MMOs for the price of one.

[anon5123]

People asked for a LFD tool, and got it in TBC.

And was entirely different from LFD, as it just allowed you to search for players and manually invite them, nothing else. You could get the same functionality by using /who with class/level parameters.

Nobody asked for the "automatic instant teleport silent dungeon runs" LFD that ended up destroying socialization and community in the game.

[AceofH]

Nobody asked for LFD.

Nobody asked for LFR.

Nobody asked for classes to be pruned of their abilities and homogenized.

Nobody asked for random drop legendaries.

Nobody asked for endless AP grinds.

Nobody asked for facebook-styled garrison shit.

Nobody asked for questing to be tightly on-rails and streamlined as fuck.

Nobody asked for itemization and gear to be simplified as "higher ilvl = upgrade"

Nobody asked for open world content to be piss easy.

etc. etc.

Also, "Changes" are not what killed retail, otherwise the game would have died halfway through vanilla. Changing TOO MUCH is what caused the downturn in subscriptions at Cataclysm, which as continued further and further with more and more changes in the wrong direction.

There are plenty of changes you could make to vanilla that would greatly improve it without hurting "muh vanilla expeerienz!!". Having the community vote on things like that doesn't sound like a bad idea. Runescape does the exact same thing as others pointed out.

You could literally just make it so that only people with level 60s can vote, and require something like 70% or 80% approval. Easy.

actually people did ask for LFD and LFR.
people did ask for homogenization - because they asked for class balance. people would complain because pures brought the most dps, and then pures would point out the utility hybrids had that they didn't.
and yes, people did ask for upgrades to be more clearly defined.

so yes, people did ask for these changes. stop lieing.

- - - Updated - - -

And was entirely different from LFD, as it just allowed you to search for players and manually invite them, nothing else. You could get the same functionality by using /who with class/level parameters.

Nobody asked for the "automatic instant teleport silent dungeon runs" LFD that ended up destroying socialization and community in the game.

people did ask for LFD though, so yeah get out of here with your crap about nobody wanted this crap
people asked for more legendaries (sure, blizzard went overboard), but people wanted more legendaries.
people asked for other ways to progress their characters then just running dungeons and raids - thus leading to AP.
people asked for the game to be more casual friendly, thus leading to garrisons and facebook style apps.

so stop lieing about people didn't ask for this.

[Delekii]

Classic is not being made for profit, it's being made as a preservation project. MMOs in general are already very niche. Super-grindy large-time-investment MMOs are even more niche.

rofl.

If you think current day Blizzard would be going to the effort they are going to without expecting return on investment you have literal rocks where your brains should be.