[SPECULATION] Queen Azshara of Zin'Azshara, the first ever mutated Zandalari Troll?

[Kithelle]

Still grasping at straws with this nonsense?

Just because the Elves use a similar weapon that their ancestors used doesn't even come close to proving your already disproven theory.

Fan art is fan art because it is *FAN* art...how the hell does fan art prove your theory lol...I can draw (Well if I could draw) a Nightborne with tusks and 2 toes...so I guess that image would be more proof huh?

[vertigo12]

We are back! 11 pages deeply buried. Let's rekindle the discussion once again.

[vertigo12]

New spoliers have been added with the additional info on the Alpha-phase of BfA!

The Ancient Zandalari Enigma Who Has Connection With Azshara

Spoiler: 

Zul is in contact with Queen Azshara! He is working with her and this is a very important info that Queen Azshara and the Zandalari maintains contact and there is "this someone" I was previously talking about who knows something about Azshara herself!

Dark Troll Representative
- Even thought it was mentioned in one of the comment section that the Dark Troll Emmisary is the only surviving Dark Troll (presummed), she is a very good candidate and a living proof in the near future when she can be brought along the Naz'jatar or Maelstrom Raid or if in someway Azerite is used to physically transform her into a Night Elf or Kal'dorei for the whole world of Azeroth to see.

A growing evidence of Burning of Teldrassil
It is clearly obvious now that yes, the Horde is partially involved through Zul as one of the potential culprit of the said event as he is unveiled to be working with Azshara. Azshara abhors the Night Elves. Zul has grudges against the present Zandalari rulership. Both are secertly working together.

[Deleted]

I don't know if it's been linked before but might be helpful for this thread. https://wow.gamepedia.com/The_Warcra...opedia/Azshara

[vertigo12]

@Roudene I use Azshara entry from wowwiwki and wowpedia most of the time. Thank you for pitching in the effort but a lot of people here can do their own research and simply typing in Azshara using Google.

Empire of Zul Once More!

Just to make the topic really clear: Why would you say, vertigo12, that Queen Azshara is or was a Zandalari Troll when Nigh Elves did came from Dark Elves?

Good keen observation my friend. You see , there is nothing wrong with this perception because all troll are united as an empire and was the title Zul/ian Empire. or Empire of Zul. I believe even though dark trolls are reclusive and isolationist, they still are welcomed within the regularly held gathering of all Troll sub-group in Zandalar.

There was a section in between the pages of these ongoing thread which heavily debates the state of Zandalari Empire and it's relevance with Empire of Zul. I have discussed that it was one and the same. It was also brought up that the Empire of Zul was eradicated along with the event of the Great Sundering. Alas, we have a spoiler that the Empire of Zul still exist along with the datamined info about different Troll sub-tribe existing in Zandalar with their emissaries present.


For evidence, kindly read the article here brought to you by wowhead. Sorry as no mmo-c entry exist as of yet. Spoilers ahead so RAYOR. http://www.wowhead.com/news=282183/t...rs-in-zuldazar


Could Princess Talanji be somewhat Dark Troll?
If Rastakhan is the Zandalari God King and he has a daughter princess Talanji, who could be his bride and Talanji's mother???????Could my speculation somewhat be taking form?

[vertigo12]

I did a review on some pages of this thread which I haven't answered yet and here are some of the updates/replies.


NEW EVIDENCE AND CORRELATION! Sisterhood of Elune and Zandalari/Dark Troll connection

Don't twist my words. Night Elves refuse to acknowledge their Troll ancestry out of pride and ignorance, not because the first NElves, foremost Azshara by your theory, "decided" to forget that they were born as Dark Trolls.

The Night Elves as a civilization forgot this because it had been countless generations (which means a lot for a long-living Elf) since the first Kaldorei came to be.

How come Malfurion and the rest of the Night Elves can still clearly recall what happened during the War of the Ancient which spans to 10k years pre-First Orc vs. Human war? Don't tell me almost all the Night Elves became amnesiac or are afflicted with Alzheimer's disease if one exist in Azeroth?

How come Zul is now currently working with Azshara? From the looks of it, Zul's ages will be way older than Rastakhan's which is roughly around +/- 250 years (assuming he started ruling at a young-adult age). He could have been several millennia years old. The only difference is Azshara know a resource or a spell to keep her young looking.

As per reviewing the thread I stumbled upon a very interesting source mention by one of our participants:

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Haidene

It was mentioned so I quote:

Haidene was the first high priestess of the moon. As a child, she heard the voice of Elune. A large, iconic statue of her is located at the center of the Temple of the Moon in Darnassus.^[1]

This means that there was one used to be living individual who used to be a Dark Troll and became a Night Elf and that was Haidene. Perhaps she was still a young Dark Troll when migrated to central ancient Kalimdor. However she became dead even prior to the WotA events. Even her pupil's apprentice Dejahna died as she chose Tyrande to be PotM successor upon her own demise.

Here's another source:

Recorded night elven history shows that formal worship of Elune dates back to at least 14,000 years. However, it is certain that the moon goddess was being revered through more primitive and decentralized methods long before this. The first known center of devotion to Elune was established by the Sisters of Elune within the ancient kaldorei capital Zin-Azshari. The Sisterhood at one point relocated this temple to the city of Suramar after it became evident Queen Azshara and the Highborne increasingly distanced themselves from the tenets of the moon goddess.

There is a very distinct and striking semblance of Dark Troll heritage within her.. Even her name Dehjana has a Zandalari/Troll/Dark Troll ring to it.

[Nathanyel]

How come Malfurion and the rest of the Night Elves can still clearly recall what happened during the War of the Ancient which spans to 10k years pre-First Orc vs. Human war? Don't tell me almost all the Night Elves became amnesiac or are afflicted with Alzheimer's disease if one exist in Azeroth?

Face-effing-palm. The Night Elves were granted immortality after the WotA by the dragonflights. That's why we today have Night Elves that remember the WotA firsthand. Before, they were merely long-living (couple hundred years or so)
If the WotA and its aftermath hadn't happened, Malfurion, Tyrande and Illidan would've died of old age more than 9000 years ago.

However, you're nuking your own argument there - if the Night Elves remembered being Trolls at some point, why is that never mentioned?

How come Zul is now currently working with Azshara?

"Why is Villain #A working with Villain #B?" - their alliance means nothing in regard to your theory, and on Kul'Tiras, Lady Ashvane is working with Azshara, does that mean that Night Elves were created as a crossbreed of Trolls and Vrykul?

This means that there was one used to be living individual who used to be a Dark Troll and became a Night Elf and that was Haidene.

There's no reason to believe the newly emerged Night Elves immediately picked up worship of Elune, or immediately formed their religion as we know it today.

There is a very distinct and striking semblance of Dark Troll heritage within her.. Even her name Dehjana has a Zandalari/Troll/Dark Troll ring to it.

Only the j strikes me as unusual for a NE name, but still, that at most is another hint towards the Night Elves having evolved from Trolls - which is nothing new. Of course names given to children weren't completely changed in one night, as presumably even the evolution didn't happen in one day, or even one generation.

[Ithekro]

We still don't know for sure what Elune even is.

[vertigo12]

We still don't know for sure what Elune even is.

I'd rather discuss that on a different topic my friend. The reason why I mentioned the sisters of Elune and their group is because according to the source I have stated above, their group existed even 14k ya which is a valuable data and relevant to the Troll -Aqir wars and Dark Trolls founding the Well of Eternity and my speculation.

There's no reason to believe the newly emerged Night Elves immediately picked up worship of Elune, or immediately formed their religion as we know it today.

It could mean that Elune worship existed prior to them being NE as part of Dark Troll culture/worship/religion or it could mean within the timeframe they've discovered the WoE they too discovered Elune. I bet the first sentence would be more possible since for them to follow Elune, they should must first know and trust her already even while they are still Dark Trolls since it was Elune's voice/whisper/thought projection that beckoned the Dark Trolls to migrate to Central Ancient Kalimdor.

Welcome back into the fray and discussion @Nathanyel. I will address your newly presented replies in a short while.

However, you're nuking your own argument there - if the Night Elves remembered being Trolls at some point, why is that never mentioned?

Bloodelves do however do joke about Darnassian Kal'dorei being descended from Dark Trolls. We know that in reality jokes are half truth and we do make fun of something in reality which happened as either laughable, mishap or things we don't want to remember. It appears to be a sarcastic joke made upon them and implies that it was indeed true. Outside of our game world we have richer understanding and info that yes they do did came from Dark Trolls. The NE's are just pretty silent and no comment about it. Silence is one means of affirmation or as the saying goes: "Silence means yes".

"Why is Villain #A working with Villain #B?" - their alliance means nothing in regard to your theory, and on Kul'Tiras, Lady Ashvane is working with Azshara, does that mean that Night Elves were created as a crossbreed of Trolls and Vrykul?

If you ask me Zul and Azshara collaborating with each other is a pretty good evidence. Let's have a thought analysis as to why and what are the possibilities:

1) Zul and Azshara are complete strangers. For sure there was an exact point of time where they get to know each other:
1.1) It is highly likely that Azshara made the first move in contacting Zul compared to the other way around.Zul is constantly on the surface and has no means of contacting Azshara deep beneath the sea/ocean. Azshara never or rarely surfaces and shows herself personally. She does either through an illusion or upon really important matter. She might also sent a messenger Naga to contact Zul.
1.1.1) As to when was the first contact made we can have several possibilities
1.1.1.1) Before BfA Event where Zul is particularly absent and the quest of reobtaining Golgoneth Tidestone of Golgoneth.Legion Era
1.1.1.2) A period in between Cataclysm where he was trying to contact the different Troll sub-tribe. Cataclysm Era and/or MoP Era

2) Zul and Azshara at somepoint in their life already knew each other.
<To be updated later.Have to prepare myself since I have a scheduled seminar to attend to IRL.>


last but not the least, they knew each other way before Queen Azshara was made Naga. When she was Ruling the Kal'dorei Civilization of Ancient Kalimdor.

[Nathanyel]

The connecting factor of Zul and Azshara is the Old Gods. Zul has had "visions" ever since he was born - he isn't ancient -, something the OG used to manipulate him and sway him to their side. Only after that was he introduced to Azshara.

[vertigo12]

The connecting factor of Zul and Azshara is the Old Gods. Zul has had "visions" ever since he was born - he isn't ancient -, something the OG used to manipulate him and sway him to their side. Only after that was he introduced to Azshara.

Okay, I just got home and back. So were was I? Ah, yes. Let's answer this first. Ever since the latest update of Zul's model it's quite pretty obvious that age is pretty much visible in him.

[Dellis0991]

I'm late in the discussion but trolls and night elves are related....night elves are in fact dark trolls who were changed by the well of eternity and the last of the dark trolls (the shadowtooth clan) are more than likely hiding in the caves of hyjal and (probably extremely pissed off). As for Azshara being the first of the night elves to for go the change from troll to elf she is more than likely not the first....this shouldn't even be speculation at this point.

[Syegfryed]

I'm late in the discussion but trolls and night elves are related....night elves are in fact dark trolls who were changed by the well of eternity and the last of the dark trolls (the shadowtooth clan) are more than likely hiding in the caves of hyjal and (probably extremely pissed off). As for Azshara being the first of the night elves to for go the change from troll to elf she is more than likely not the first....this shouldn't even be speculation at this point.

this was already explained in page 1/2, he just refuse to believe

[Nathanyel]

Ever since the latest update of Zul's model it's quite pretty obvious that age is pretty much visible in him.

Yes. He's an old Troll. That doesn't mean he's a dozen thousand years old.

[Zulkhan]

Can we ask the mods to close this thread for good? A thread where there's no discussion apart countless people trying to refute altogether the OP's attempts to endlessly run in circles has no point to exist, I say.

[huth]

Can we ask the mods to close this thread for good? A thread where there's no discussion apart countless people trying to refute altogether the OP's attempts to endlessly run in circles has no point to exist, I say.

Endlessly run in circles with his hands over his ears and shouting lalala at the top of his lungs, i'd say.

[vertigo12]

Endlessly run in circles with his hands over his ears and shouting lalala at the top of his lungs, i'd say.

40k views and still on going discussion. As more of the meaty data mined details are unveiled things are even getting juicier and interesting. So far some of the refutal of fellow participants here have been shut down. I.e. Zul Empire is gone/defunct unfortunately, there are every troll sub-tribe representatives in Dazar'alor. Also I have said that there should be this someone who has info or connection with Azshara and there it was, Zul was mentioned and leaked that he was working with Azshara. More plot-thickening sauce please but please don't get it too salty !

Yes. He's an old Troll. That doesn't mean he's a dozen thousand years old.

Well I doubt that old fart would just be 1k yrs. old! His looks even compare that of Velens . Unfortunately for Azshara though gray-haired she is in-game right now, we can no longer distinguish her real age as she is no a Naga and her once beautiful face which ever blots out the sign of aging was entirely ripped out of her face just like her once dazzling city of Zin'Azshari.

Look at Rastakhan and Malfurion. They somehow give a vibe that their age is somewhat near or almost at the same age.

[Nathanyel]

40k views and still on going discussion.

Clickbaity title, and the "discussion" is mostly us saying "this makes no sense, consider these bits of lore that contradict your theory".

[vertigo12]

Clickbaity title, and the "discussion" is mostly us saying "this makes no sense, consider these bits of lore that contradict your theory".

seems like you've been baited masterfully . If ever there was a member tracker I could probably compile a tabulation how often someone visits a thread however, I can only get the data on how often one replies.

I might add a pop-up window BBC attachment and "click-here" tag in the future to make it official.

[vertigo12]

Clickbaity title, and the "discussion" is mostly us saying "this makes no sense, consider these bits of lore that contradict your theory".

Of course my point disagrees with common notion otherwise, if we would all agree and just go along the same herd mentality, might as well end the discussion as none will oppose or state another PoV. Unfortunately, that was never the case since the beginning and I plan to keep it up until we get to the entire truth of this topic. To be or not to be?That is the question.