Organizational Leadership?

[Celista]

Hey all:

I met this woman who's interested in nonprofit work (she wants to be an executive director at a nonprofit agency one day) and asked me some questions about whether or not a graduate degree in organizational leadership would be beneficial for her career goals (I work for a nonprofit). I said I don't know because I've never heard of the field and the degree. When I looked it up, it seemed like something a lot of online schools offer, but not as much brick and mortar ones (except Arizona State).

I get the sense that it's a bullshit degree, but I guess it could also be akin to a general management degree and I would think that an MBA would be more beneficial in that regard. Anyone else know more about it?

[Doctor Amadeus]

I have the same attitude towards my friends who are Scientologist, but meh, nothing wrong with investigating and really decide for yourself, I do think however you first instinct is probably the more correct one.

[cuafpr]

It's normally a focus area for an MBA. My MBA has a focus on strategic leadership as I was in the USAF at the time and planned on going career so it was focused on leadership/management styles found in service. It could also combine a MBA and organziational psychology.

adding: in the end it can't hurt, IF she can afford it, it shows she set a goal and achieved it. It's also likely she will learn something helpful. The piece of paper at least helps gets past the first HR level

[Stelio Kontos]

Tell her to get a real degree! Like my Bachelors in Political Science!

*cries into crumpled up diploma*

[Celista]

Tell her to get a real degree! Like my Bachelors in Political Science!

*cries into crumpled up diploma*

*hug*

I went to law school. Much worse.

- - - Updated - - -

It's normally a focus area for an MBA. My MBA has a focus on strategic leadership as I was in the USAF at the time and planned on going career so it was focused on leadership/management styles found in service. It could also combine a MBA and organziational psychology.

adding: in the end it can't hurt, IF she can afford it, it shows she set a goal and achieved it. It's also likely she will learn something helpful. The piece of paper at least helps gets past the first HR level

Okay, thanks! Helpful post. I'll pass this on.

[alexkeren]

That area of study is more HR centric, though at my U it might be possible to focus on it for a doctorate, but it is not a masters option.

But at the undergrad level there are three courses I know of that would be within the purview of that topic.

[Celista]

That area of study is more HR centric, though at my U it might be possible to focus on it for a doctorate, but it is not a masters option.

But at the undergrad level there are three courses I know of that would be within the purview of that topic.

Yeah she has an MA in Psychology (we took a graduate class together) but no other degrees (minus her bachelor's degree, obviously. I think she said it was in marketing). Not sure if she's interested in HR work, but the program she was interested in was a PhD program.

[belfpala]

Hey all:

I met this woman who's interested in nonprofit work (she wants to be an executive director at a nonprofit agency one day) and asked me some questions about whether or not a graduate degree in organizational leadership would be beneficial for her career goals (I work for a nonprofit). I said I don't know because I've never heard of the field and the degree. When I looked it up, it seemed like something a lot of online schools offer, but not as much brick and mortar ones (except Arizona State).

I get the sense that it's a bullshit degree, but I guess it could also be akin to a general management degree and I would think that an MBA would be more beneficial in that regard. Anyone else know more about it?

I could use some organizational leadership in my house... oh, bad thing to say right now.

Go with your gut on hiring. She's educated, apparently, but will she fit your organization, etc.?

Edit to add: MBA is a bullshit degree too. It's literally a degree about the art of bullshit.

[Celista]

I could use some organizational leadership in my house... oh, bad thing to say right now.

Go with your gut on hiring. She's educated, apparently, but will she fit your organization, etc.?

I think she was looking to have me as a professional contact and was maybe looking for a bit of mentoring, but her focus seemed to be on education as it related to career goals. I did wonder if she was going to ask about openings with my organization but she didn't bring it up and we are not actively hiring at the moment.

She might be a good fit in the future, she's smart and would be a good value hire as she was out of the workforce raising kids and then attending graduate school. The obvious downside is that she needs more experience. She certainly seems motivated, however. I could see her reaching a high level at a small to mid-sized organization.

[Mittens]

Tell her to get a real degree! Like my Bachelors in Political Science!

*cries into crumpled up diploma*

> Not doing public administration

[belfpala]

I think she was looking to have me as a professional contact and was maybe looking for a bit of mentoring, but her focus seemed to be on education as it related to career goals. I did wonder if she was going to ask about openings with my organization but she didn't bring it up and we have are not actively hiring at the moment.

She might be a good fit in the future, she's smart and would be a good value hire as she was out of the workforce raising kids and then attending graduate school. The obvious downside is that she needs more experience. She certainly seems motivated, however. I could see her reaching a high level at a small to mid-sized organization.

We live in the world where "Community Organizer" is sufficient to be a US Senator and then President.

When I hire people, I do test their knowledge. A lot. But ultimately, it comes down to this: I could do the job I'm hiring for; do I trust this person to do it instead of me?

Degrees, to me, just say someone jumped through the hoops. I don't care what the degree says.

And you brought up the thorn every Millennial knows: entry level position, five years experience. Badface.

[Celista]

We live in the world where "Community Organizer" is sufficient to be a US Senator and then President.

When I hire people, I do test their knowledge. A lot. But ultimately, it comes down to this: I could do the job I'm hiring for; do I trust this person to do it instead of me?

Degrees, to me, just say someone jumped through the hoops. I don't care what the degree says.

And you brought up the thorn every Millennial knows: entry level position, five years experience. Badface.

Yeah trust me no one is more aware of that then me, and I also don't believe in having people work for free in order to get experience. I had a business prof in undergrad who mentored me, and taught me that lesson early. Unpaid internships are the equivalent of slave labor, in my opinion. In nonprofits it's really bad, I've seen "volunteer" executive director job postings on job boards, a lot of work that should be paid work delegated to volunteers, and general bad behavior as it relates to salary ("well we could give you a raise, but think of how you'd be hurting our clients if we did that").

Anyhoo, that was a long winded way of me to say that paying people fair wages and not expecting new grads to have a boatload of experience are two things that I never deviate from.

[belfpala]

/snip
Anyhoo, that was a long winded way of me to say that paying people fair wages and not expecting new grads to have a boatload of experience are two things that I never deviate from.

Is it bad that I avoided that dilemma because I have an extremely powerful personality? Like, to the point that I can get people who don't owe me money to just give me some?

Actually, that sounds like "organizational leadership" to me. Give her a high five.

[Celista]

Is it bad that I avoided that dilemma because I have an extremely powerful personality? Like, to the point that I can get people who don't owe me money to just give me some?

Actually, that sounds like "organizational leadership" to me. Give her a high five.

Haha. Sounds like you should work in sales or fundraising.

[belfpala]

Haha. Sounds like you should work in sales or fundraising.

Entrepreneur. Restaurant business. But really it's the same thing Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos do. Here's the plan: I tell people I need money, and they give it to me. Ultimately, that's every business plan.

I don't have an MBA, but I know enough people who do. They payed ridiculous amounts of money to get that, and all they learned was the methods of greed.

[Celista]

Entrepreneur. Restaurant business. But really it's the same thing Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos do. Here's the plan: I tell people I need money, and they give it to me. Ultimately, that's every business plan.

I don't have an MBA, but I know enough people who do. They payed ridiculous amounts of money to get that, and all they learned was the methods of greed.

You must be pretty persuasive, as restaurants tend to be high risk investments due to failure rates.

[Independent voter]

WHAT IS ORGANIZATIONAL LEADERSHIP?

INTRODUCTION

Organizational leadership (OL) is a field of work that includes setting goals for both individuals and groups of people. This field of work may include working on large projects with businesses and corporations, and even smaller projects with groups of people who share similar outlooks.

Organizational Leadership would be a legit degree but a business degree especially an MBA would be more versatile I think. It's what ever you can sell during your interview for the job and a Masters of Business and Administration is something everyone knows.

[Celista]

I mean, I did do a Google search and did a bit of reading before making the thread...

On one hand, the MBA is more versatile but nonprofits are different from for-profit entities in key ways. MBA programs almost exclusively focus on coursework appropriate for-profit entities. There's some overlap however, but a program tailored to nonprofits would probably be the best value. Rules for maintaining 501(c)(3) status are different, focus is on grant management and fundraising (even if you use a hybrid/social entrepreneurship model by creating products to bring to market to support the nonprofit), etc.

My point is that an MBA isn't a perfect fit, although there are a limited number of MBA programs that have a nonprofit focus. I did in fact suggest an MBA (U of P has a new program here in Portland). She sounded somewhat interested but I also got the sense that she thought a PhD would be more marketable than an MBA. Or that she didn't want to do a second master's degree program, or would just prefer a PhD. Not sure...

I haven't followed up with her again but I probably will soon.

[Kuntantee]

*hug*

I went to law school. Much worse.

What? You are being edgy. That's the cool thing these days?

[Celista]

What? You are being edgy. That's the cool thing these days?

More like being a moron, there are more law grads than there are law jobs at the moment. At like a 2:1 ratio.