Antorus Progression Thread

[david0925]

And absolutely amazing for casual player retention, which is why it'll never go away.

I would also argue it's actually good for mythic players too once they get over their feelings.

Yes, i understand it's annoying seeing a random with a 955 Grand Design Heroic TF when you only had 940 Mythic, but on average mythic raider will still have average ilvl that is about one tier above heroic raiders with the same number of boss kills. We do observe this in Legion even with other factors such as m+ and legendaries.

I was pretty against unlimited TF before but honestly having a chance to be rewarded is better than absolutely zero chance. The other side argument of "feeling compelled to do older content for chances" is mostly just philosophical too, unless people that complained were chasing high TF CoF/Whispers were actually doing it on all 4 difficulties then.

[Dnusha]

ouch exorsus gm just told sloot they had a 2.1% wipe before methods kill yesterday

so happy we got a close race this time, congrats to exorsus

[Hubbl3]

GZ Exorsus!

[sjuk]

Seems like Exorsus got World 2nd.

About fkin time. Lets see how far down the ladder Limit goes now

[Soluna]

so happy we got a close race this time, congrats to exorsus

Yeah my guild had a 0.024% wipe on mythic argus too RIGHT before method kill. We then saw their 'REALM FIRST' spam, and we lost our shit and wiped

[Hubbl3]

IDK why people are so upset about a 2.1% wipe statement. That happens all the time so why not for Exorsus? Method also had a very low % wipe right at the end of last ID. Shit happens.

[Justwait]

so happy we got a close race this time, congrats to exorsus

All my sources have said they had a 10% best try before our kill, then a 3% later in the night. It wasn't before our kill, and likely misunderstood statement (or lied about?) Just to get the facts straight.

[FareweII]

Sloot is so salty about Exorsus on stream lmao. "Can't wait to read their whiny twits" and shit. Dude, you tried to compete against them and lost and now you're in a world 40 guild, not in the position to be on snarky.

It wasn't before our kill, and likely misunderstood statement (or lied about?)

Or, you know, Alveona didn't say any of that at all, because he's not gonna rush to Slootbag's chat right after kill.

[Pr0ev0lution]

IDK why people are so upset about a 2.1% wipe statement. That happens all the time so why not for Exorsus? Method also had a very low % wipe right at the end of last ID. Shit happens.

god knows, i thought it was interesting shows how close the race was and makes you wonder how close limit are

[Emancptr]

For a casual player that never goes up in the bracket, aka does quests/LFR all expansion and still has the chance to get better loot. Bad for everyone that wants to progress in the game.

Exactly!

You might as well label that demographic, "Most likely to leave if they get bored." And putting in systems like WF/TF that keep in the demographic that is most likely to unsubscribe is great for Blizzard's bottom line.

I am in 100% agreement that WF/TF needs to go, but I can also guarantee that it will never go because of how valuable it is in Blizzard's eyes for subscriber retention (especially in "at risk to unsubscribe demographics" like the casual player).

I would also argue it's actually good for mythic players too once they get over their feelings.

Yes, i understand it's annoying seeing a random with a 955 Grand Design Heroic TF when you only had 940 Mythic, but on average mythic raider will still have average ilvl that is about one tier above heroic raiders with the same number of boss kills. We do observe this in Legion even with other factors such as m+ and legendaries.

None of this matters to most Mythic players. No Mythic player cares that Joe schmo got lucky and got a huge titanforge.

Mythic players hate the WF/TF system because it makes raids harder to balance and has lead to the "swingey-ness" of raid tiers. Balancing around WF/TF makes the developers job 20x harder and has lead to the overtuned/undertuned content we've seen all expansion.

Mythic players also hate that there are items that are essentially BiS for the entire expansion (arcano crystal/CoF/etc.) that must be farmed and rolled WF/TF. Blizzard is removing tier sets next expansion (because they take up slots and reduce itemization options), when WF/TF does the exact same thing to most characters' trinket slots. You're going to be using that 1 item the entire expansion and praying for good WF/TF luck on it, which sucks for Mythic players.

[Dnusha]

Yeah my guild had a 0.024% wipe on mythic argus too RIGHT before method kill. We then saw their 'REALM FIRST' spam, and we lost our shit and wiped

leave your salt somewhere else pls

[david0925]

Exactly!

You might as well label that demographic, "Most likely to leave if they get bored." And putting in systems like WF/TF that keep in the demographic that is most likely to unsubscribe is great for Blizzard's bottom line.

I am in 100% agreement that WF/TF needs to go, but I can also guarantee that it will never go because of how valuable it is in Blizzard's eyes for subscriber retention (especially in "at risk to unsubscribe demographics" like the casual player).



None of this matters to most Mythic players. No Mythic player cares that Joe schmo got lucky and got a huge titanforge.

Mythic players hate the WF/TF system because it makes raids harder to balance and has lead to the "swingey-ness" of raid tiers. Balancing around WF/TF makes the developers job 20x harder and has lead to the overtuned/undertuned content we've seen all expansion.

Mythic players also hate that there are items that are essentially BiS for the entire expansion (arcano crystal/CoF/etc.) that must be farmed and rolled WF/TF. Blizzard is removing tier sets next expansion (because they take up slots and reduce itemization options), when WF/TF does the exact same thing to most characters' trinket slots. You're going to be using that 1 item the entire expansion and praying for good WF/TF luck on it, which sucks for Mythic players.

I'm really not sure if overtuning/undertuning is a direct and most major consequence of TF/WF, although I can't really disagree that it at least plays a part in it since it does increase the variance (gear-gap).

[MCitra]

Maybe bad for competitive raiding but not bad for the larger percentage of more casual raiders.

Yeah because a system that is purely based on luck is fair and thats why it should be kept as it is so you dont have to do anything to be better or improve?

It is bad and probably one of the worst system in it's current state. Get a limit cap and we'll talk.

[Orwell7]

So TF is:
Irrelevant to general Questers, they don't care about it at all, I'm not sure they even know it exists. Aaand even if the TF cap is at the current Mythic raid (+5) ilvl, they get a massive upgrade either way.

One who just plays through the story, maybe doing some casual M+ and normal/heroic raiding won't need it. This group is at an ilvl disadvantage actually, because they have LESS titanforged-high ilvl items than those who are clearing normal/heroic regularly. So the gap is even wider (so they find less groups when/if they have the time to play)

And we all know that Mythic raiders hate this system.

Summary: it sucks

[Cracked]

Yeah because a system that is purely based on luck is fair and thats why it should be kept as it is so you dont have to do anything to be better or improve?

It is bad and probably one of the worst system in it's current state. Get a limit cap and we'll talk.

It's fair in the way that everyone has the same chance to get the TF, but it doesn't change the fact that when you see someone with a Looking For Raid Mythic Ilvl bis trinket, you are left scratching your head asking yourself why you still bother playing this game. I agree that a cap is needed, and it needs to be on the lower side, max +15.

[Kuruption]

I think warforge can be left in, but titanforge just needs to get the fuuuuuuuuck out.

[camicio]

Sloot is so salty about Exorsus on stream lmao. "Can't wait to read their whiny twits" and shit. Dude, you tried to compete against them and lost and now you're in a world 40 guild, not in the position to be on snarky.


Or, you know, Alveona didn't say any of that at all, because he's not gonna rush to Slootbag's chat right after kill.

he is just mad because he doesnt have a single WF. he even changed his region and all to accomplish that

[lappee]

Exactly!

You might as well label that demographic, "Most likely to leave if they get bored." And putting in systems like WF/TF that keep in the demographic that is most likely to unsubscribe is great for Blizzard's bottom line.

I am in 100% agreement that WF/TF needs to go, but I can also guarantee that it will never go because of how valuable it is in Blizzard's eyes for subscriber retention (especially in "at risk to unsubscribe demographics" like the casual player).

Those casual players don't really leave because they don't get upgrades from WQ's and such, they leave because they've seen the content. If they were playing for the gear then they'd actually try to run some higher content. Previously getting more gear meant going into raids, now you could do the same with 5 man dungeons even without the WF/TF system.

[Deleted]

About fkin time. Lets see how far down the ladder Limit goes now

They'll be top 10 as usual with half the hours spent compared to every guild before them and probably the next 10 guilds after them.

- - - Updated - - -

The way titanforging is ok :

Mythic starts at 960 base ilvl up to 985 TF ilvl
LFR, Normal, Heroic (in case of Antorus) up to 960 ilvl

It still would give something to the casual players, but it would make certain that mythic gear in every situation is the best gear (as it should be).

[Xandrigity]

sadly people who does WQ/LFR are the majority =/

Casuals pay the bill.