Antorus Progression Thread

[Cracked]

What are we thinking about the Mythic only phase on Argus? Wowhead had a post here

http://www.wowhead.com/news=273171/a...d-secret-phase

it seems like at 40% Argus turns red, but there are also some abilities listed that say "Sargeras does x", so he's probably a part of the fight too? He probably just grants his abilities to Argus?

[Millyraynge]

As far as i saw heroic atm is a joke. Yesterday in our guild run, without anyone having any experience from PTR we cleared 6/11 in good 2 hours of raid, 4 where 1 shot and on 2 we wiped like 2-3 times.

There are definitely bosses which have pretty good potential in mythic to be "awesome". I think method won't clear it in the first week, maybe at the End of the second (if everything works properly ).

[Evilmoo]

we also did 6 before time run out, tower defense was an absolute bore, we just cleaved imonar along with some trash. Hasabel and AHC were fun and we are looking forward to seeing those in mythic.

[jjbarea]

What are we thinking about the Mythic only phase on Argus? Wowhead had a post here

http://www.wowhead.com/news=273171/a...d-secret-phase

it seems like at 40% Argus turns red, but there are also some abilities listed that say "Sargeras does x", so he's probably a part of the fight too? He probably just grants his abilities to Argus?

he will take over argus

[Tennis]

What the balls are you talking about? When Paragon and Ensidia raided in their respective times absolutely nobody had a chance at world first end boss other than them. Now it's hotly contested between Exorsus and Method and plenty of other guilds are rising hard much like Method has since years ago.

Um yeah they did. Ensidia lost Yogg 0. Paragon lost Deathwing. etc etc.

I expect a public apology when Method easily steamrolls the competition.

[jjbarea]

Um yeah they did. Ensidia lost Yogg 0. Paragon lost Deathwing. etc etc.

I expect a public apology when Method easily steamrolls the competition.

underestimating russians and new memento again? when will you learn people...

[Deleted]

he will take over argus

The fight begins with the message "Sargeras' Gaze is cast upon the battle..."

[Deleted]

The harder/more bugged Antorus is, the more Method are favored over Exorsus, that said an easy 1 week/early 2 week Antorus will likely end up with a Russian victory. So far, I would say Exorsus is in the driving seat since they are doing more heroics and Antorus HC is greatly undertuned(which often spills into mythic).

[Jastall]

top 2 guilds steamroll heroic boss designed for players 100x worse then them.

More news at 11

It's not just that. Argus just seems too easy for a final boss. He only gains one mechanic from Normal, and that's on ph3. The boss otherwise doesn't change, and on Normal he was a total loot pinata. Ph1 and ph2 in particular are almost harmless if you have more than a minimal knowledge of WoW raiding. Comparing him to bosses like Blackhand, Archimonde, Gul'dan or KJ, these gained more mechanics from Normal to Heroic and could quite easily kill a careless raid in their earlier phases. I can't see anything that could wipe a raid capable of reaching Heroic Argus in ph1-2, and ph3 is only hard if some dummy interrupts the wrong thing.

I mean it's Heroic so it doesn't matter that much, but it would be nice to see that difficulty offer a good challenge and more involved mechanics. Raiding shouldn't be faceroll until you enter Mythic.

[NtflxnChill]

Did the new Paragon disband already? 0 kills on anything, Momento or something

[Deleted]

So it have come into my knowledge that tumori GM of <MEMENTO> have taken guild funds for his personal use and there have been alot of drama in the guild. Memento might not be able to compete in current mythic race since their tank told he wont be progressing if moneys wont be returned to paypal and guildbank. "We might have to merge with akatemia and ask zeitler to tank for us " - lyksy

[Deleted]

It sucks that Paragon and Ensidia dont raid anymore. That would have made the race exciting.

Now Method just wins by default. No fun in that.

They had 2 out of 4 World Firsts on end bosses in Legion so far. As many as Exorsus.

[jjbarea]

The harder/more bugged Antorus is, the more Method are favored over Exorsus, that said an easy 1 week/early 2 week Antorus will likely end up with a Russian victory. So far, I would say Exorsus is in the driving seat since they are doing more heroics and Antorus HC is greatly undertuned(which often spills into mythic).

why???????????????????????????????????????????

[Deleted]

Um yeah they did. Ensidia lost Yogg 0. Paragon lost Deathwing. etc etc.

Ensidia weren't even trying to kill Yogg 0 because "mathematicaly impossible" and Paragon were banned in Dragon Soul due to LFR exploit. IIRC.

[Twilight Cultist]

Ensidia weren't even trying to kill Yogg 0 because "mathematicaly impossible" and Paragon were banned in Dragon Soul due to LFR exploit. IIRC.

Yeah, pretty much every top guild but Blood Legion got a week ban because of the LFR exploit. That is how me got this meme:

[dreamdaddy]

What's the cutoff for people being okay with a boss's difficulty? If Method/Exorsus clear M Argus in a single reset, people will likely complain about the content being too easy, even if they pour like 500 attempts into it. I personally think it's okay to have an endboss be cleared in a single reset by groups that are much, much more organized than an average guild. It's better than having a situation like KJ where the devs seemed to create a literally unkillable, super annoying boss just to psychologically check the top players and arbitrarily extend the WF race.

[Hahyestwo]

What's the cutoff for people being okay with a boss's difficulty? If Method/Exorsus clear M Argus in a single reset, people will likely complain about the content being too easy, even if they pour like 500 attempts into it. I personally think it's okay to have an endboss be cleared in a single reset by groups that are much, much more organized than an average guild. It's better than having a situation like KJ where the devs seemed to create a literally unkillable, super annoying boss just to psychologically check the top players and arbitrarily extend the WF race.

I'm going to assume you mean end boss/ maybe end boss + penultimate. I think part of that depends how the wipes are spent. When I used to raid around the US 50 level, I thought bosses like Lei Shen, Garrosh, Archi were fun to progress on. They may have caused many wipes, but the progress wasn't too frustrating -- every few pulls you felt like you were improving or gaining some sort of team synergy. The mechanics were fun and interesting. Honorable mention -- Blackhand was an epic boss, but progression for me was annoying because of comp issues at the time.

Flip the script to something like Avatar or KJ, which I didn't raid, but many people expressed displeasure with -- the whole 1 trivial mistake wipes the raid deal. I doubt anybody prefers those type of bosses.

In the end, I think the bosses I listed as fun were around the 200-300 wipe mark by the time my team got around to killing them -- I'd say that's a reasonable wipe number. That probably translates to roughly 300-700 attempts for world first, depending on the tuning (I believe Archi was 700 something for Method?). But like I said, I wouldn't find 200-300 wipes on something like OG Kil'Jaden (Legion) fun, even if that's a reasonable wipe count.

TLDR I think the encounter design plays just as important of a role as wipe count when it comes to people judging if an encounter was fun or not.

Edit: I personally would be fine with a first week clear, if Method put like 500 attempts into it and it was an engaging encounter. The artificial brick wall of KJ was total BS, I agree.

[Seramore]

What's the cutoff for people being okay with a boss's difficulty? If Method/Exorsus clear M Argus in a single reset, people will likely complain about the content being too easy, even if they pour like 500 attempts into it. I personally think it's okay to have an endboss be cleared in a single reset by groups that are much, much more organized than an average guild. It's better than having a situation like KJ where the devs seemed to create a literally unkillable, super annoying boss just to psychologically check the top players and arbitrarily extend the WF race.

There is no real "cutoff," it's all variable. A fight can be mechanically difficult and take a few weeks which is fine, but a fight can also just be mechanically easier but have incredibly tight requirements and brutal punishments for mess ups that will wipe your raid that could take a few weeks.

[Cracked]

I'm really wondering if Blizzard hasn't yet learned how to tune with titanforging in mind, or if it's intentional that even heroic Argus is so easy. I mean, compared to Archimonde heroic, where many guilds even in top 20 had to cut down dead weight in splits or reduce the number of splits on that boss, Argus is just laughably easy. Are we overgeared? If so, why isn't it tuned for higher ilvl?

[Ningjinq]

What's the cutoff for people being okay with a boss's difficulty? If Method/Exorsus clear M Argus in a single reset, people will likely complain about the content being too easy, even if they pour like 500 attempts into it. I personally think it's okay to have an endboss be cleared in a single reset by groups that are much, much more organized than an average guild. It's better than having a situation like KJ where the devs seemed to create a literally unkillable, super annoying boss just to psychologically check the top players and arbitrarily extend the WF race.

Id say, by the time guild #1000 kills it, even with nerds, it still should take 100+ wipes. Like Archimonde or Gul’dan.