So Alliance lost the Nightborne beacuse Tyrande was a dick?

[Hitei]

Every time a comparison is drawn between Sylvanas and Elisande, a kittem somewhere dies.

Elisande isn't nearly as bad.

[Shakou]

help help the goalposts have been moved...

sorry friend but you were pretty clear about the quest not existing... u even brought out the caps lock key. its the same quest with the same objective and the same name. but dont worry i dont hold it against u. i know u got a lil heated there.

u see i know you know u were wrong because you assumed i was talking about the horde video earlier. if u really knew the alliance quest was there you would have realized i was talking about it and explained urself sooner. nothing gets past sillag im afraid i have eyes like a hawk.

There's no goal post that's been moved. These are not the same quests, they are similar yes, because you're hanging posters up in Suramar, but the similarities end there. These quests have totally opposite purposes.

By the way you've been on my ignore list for a while now. I'm only humoring you because you still keep insisting you're right even though it's now plainly obvious you actually barely even play this game, at least this Expansion.

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Elisande isn't nearly as bad.

Sylvannas is basically a rape victim acting out a 90's female power fantasy ala Buffy the Vampire Slayer, you crazy person. Albeit Sylvannas is a little more like the crow and she's done some bad things sure, but she's actually not straight up evil.

[sillag]

There's no goal post that's been moved. These are not the same quests, they are similar yes. But they have totally opposite purposes.

By the way you've been on my ignore list for a while now. I'm only humoring you because you still keep insisting you're right even though it's now plainly obvious you barely even play this game.

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Sylvannas is basically a rape victim acting out a 90's female power fantasy ala Buffy the Vampire Slayer, you crazy person.

doesnt sound like u are using your ignore list right there friend if ur still reading all my posts. i dont really mind if u ignore me or not. i just hope u have learned something from our time together

[Shakou]

sillag, you can think what you want. I actually don't care what you think. It's actually very entertaining to me that you're so emotionally invested in this that you will keep responding no matter what is stated and insist you are right. I could pull a Blizzard rep in here backing up all of what I'm saying here and you will still disagree.

I get it you're a know-it-all teenager. I was one too, half my life ago. Now get off my lawn.

P.s. in case you're not understanding this, I am completely aware that there is a Horde quest "Help is on the Way!" and an Alliance quest "Help is on the Way!" but I am even more aware because you actually think you "won" something here by proving a trivial point that you have not personally done EITHER QUEST. A lot of us here have and are totally aware that Tyrande is a cold bitch in the Alliance version that wants the Nightborne to fight their own battle, and Liadrin is genuinely going out of her way to make sure the Nightborne know that the Horde will literally fight and die for them.

Congratulations kid, you played yourself.

[sillag]

sillag, you can think what you want. I actually don't care what you think. It's actually very entertaining to me that you're so emotionally invested in this that you will keep responding no matter what is stated and insist you are right. I could pull a Blizzard rep in here backing up all of what I'm saying here and you will still disagree.

I get it you're a know-it-all teenager. I was one too, half my life ago. Now get off my lawn.

u seem to care about me a lot friend u keep unignoring me just to carry on our conversation. i think u seem like a nice guy really. and i was really impressed to learn you were a screenwriter. it seems we dont agree about how bad the bfa lore is but thats ok i think we will still make a good team

[Shakou]

I'm literally not even reading your posts.

[sillag]

i think u might be... even if u wont admit it

[Magnagarde]

The nightborne shouldn't have joined anyone and there should've been no void elves.

Highmountain tauren and lightforged draenei are two races I'm okay with.

[Trassk]

This is typical for her, and honestly it goes in line with blizzards writing of women these days, all main female characters in warcraft right now are either complete dicks with an attitude, or ineffectual like Moira.

Its funny, for the longest time I considered Knaak a bad writer, I mean he is, don't get me wrong. But i read war of the ancients entirely, and the only think I felt he at least did was make the characters in that story varied and interesting. In that book, Tyrande was a caring, gentle natured priestess who looked past what other high born night elves were like, such as her defense of broxigar.

She's not the same character in warcraft, she almost had a moment in val'shara of fighting alongside our horde character and she could have developed respect, but instead with the nightborne she shows her same old colours again.

[Shakou]

Pretttttty sure Lady Liadrin and Thalyysra are anything but cold, uncaring and unkind.

[Hitei]

She's not the same character in warcraft, she almost had a moment in val'shara of fighting alongside our horde character and she could have developed respect, but instead with the nightborne she shows her same old colours again.

She didn't though. That's the nature of this problem and what people aren't getting.

She comes into Suramar, says "Hey, you guys screwed up real bad and were on the wrong side during the War of the Ancients, how do we know you are going to just pull that shit again?" Thalyssra says "Nah, we're cool, we don't want the Nightwell we just want to get rid of this tyrant." and Tyrande is like "Okay then. We'll fight alongside you to destroy the Nightwell and the Legion, and then take things from there."

And then apparently because she didn't call Thalyssra afterwards to say "Hey join the Alliance" Thalyssra decided to join the Horde and start killing people of her own race?

Like if there had been a situation where Thalyssra had actually approached the Alliance and been told to go away, sure, maybe. It's still super silly for them to be choosing a side in the first place, but okay, whatever. But instead of that, it seems, for all intents and purposes, like her reasoning is just that Tyrande didn't directly approach her.

Her logic as depicted here is the Alliance didn't want the Nightborne... but she didn't even ever bother to fucking approach the Alliance. That is insane.

Imagine I go into a store.

In that store, I browse the items for a bit. The store clerk is standing behind the counter as normal. Eventually I leave and go to a different store.

At that second store, the clerk comes up and says "Can I help you with anything" and I say "Wow, I really wanted to buy stuff at this other store, but I guess they just didn't want to sell to me." and the store clerk agrees and says that other store is full of assholes, and then I ask the second store clerk if I can buy a gun to go shoot up the first store.

Please.

[Shakou]

She didn't though. That's the nature of this problem and what people aren't getting.

She comes into Suramar, says "Hey, you guys screwed up real bad and were on the wrong side during the War of the Ancients, how do we know you are going to just pull that shit again?" Thalyssra says "Nah, we're cool, we don't want the Nightwell we just want to get rid of this tyrant." and Tyrande is like "Okay then. We'll fight alongside you to destroy the Nightwell and the Legion, and then take things from there."

And then apparently because she didn't call Thalyssra afterwards to say "Hey join the Alliance" Thalyssra decided to join the Horde and start killing people of her own race?

Um no.

#1 YOU HAVE NOT PLAYED THROUGH THIS CONTENT IN BFA YET. YOU HAVE RED SNIPPETS OF DIALOGUE.

#2 You are completely distorting what happened in Legion to the degree I think you don't even take the game seriously enough to pay actual attention to what actually happened.

#3 You're leaving out the biggest part: the war breaks out between the Alliance and Horde before all of this and that's why they're forced to take sides.

Your "logic" is not logic it is touchy feely head cannon bullcrap based on minimal information, willful ignorance and emotional gobbly gook.

What doesn't make sense is that she would approach the Alliance, and it's stated very clearly why, you even referred to it in the most underhanded way. Because they were dicks that had no real interest in them and if anything would force them to conform if not outright engage in aggression toward them.

That's how it works IRL too. Act like a dick and people don't approach you and ask if you want to be pals.

You seem to live in this alternative universe where you can be mean and nasty and unsympathetic and uncaring toward people and that if they aren't grateful for you being a complete asshole to them that means they're a bad person.


Are you a Trump supporter? Don't lie.

[Hitei]

You haven't fucking played the game yet. You do not know what happens. You know part of what happens. And you're leaving out the biggest part: the war breaks out between the Alliance and Horde. That's why they're forced to take sides.

Your "logic" is not logic it is touchy feely head cannon bullcrap based on minimal information, willful ignorance and emotional gobbly gook.

What doesn't make sense is that she would approach the Alliance, and it's stated very clearly why. Because they were dicks that had no real interest in them and would force them to conform.

That's how it works IRL too. Act like a dick and people don't approach you and ask if you want to be pals.

They take sides before the war breaks out. That's why it's not a big deal that Alleria is around Silvermoon. They took a side for no reason.

My logic is based on every interaction we've seen so far post Antorus.

First Arcanist Thalyssra: I thought our kin from Kalimdor would make obvious allies. But their arrogance and mistrust soon proved otherwise.

Except that there's none of it. Just Tyrande asking that first question, accepting that Thalyssra is okay and then agreeing to fight alongside her.

Last time I checked, fighting a war for someone and having your troops die for them isn't "acting like a dick". The Moon Guard certainly weren't acting like dicks. The Druids certainly weren't acting like dicks.

All of those are Night Elves with heavy ties to the Darnassian faction.

Also, that is absolutely not how it works IRL. In what world do you hang out with the wrong crowd, abandon someone, they come back and agree to still do you a massive favor, and then when they don't immediately say "hey lets be best friends right now" you decide they hate you and the proper solution is to join up with their rival and then go kick the shit out of them?

[Squiggit]

In that book, Tyrande was a caring, gentle natured priestess who looked past what other high born night elves were like, such as her defense of broxigar.

I don't think I like that. You can argue about whether or not she's a good character but her being brash, blunt, not very diplomatic and putting her own thoughts and opinions first has been pretty standard for her.

[Shakou]

They take sides before the war breaks out. That's why it's not a big deal that Alleria is around Silvermoon. They took a side for no reason.

My logic is based on every interaction we've seen so far post Antorus.


Except that there's none of it. Just Tyrande asking that first question, accepting that Thalyssra is okay and then agreeing to fight alongside her.

Last time I checked, fighting a war for someone and having your troops die for them isn't "acting like a dick". The Moon Guard certainly weren't acting like dicks. The Druids certainly weren't acting like dicks.

All of those are Night Elves with heavy ties to the Darnassian faction.

Also, that is absolutely not how it works IRL. In what world do you hang out with the wrong crowd, abandon someone, they come back and agree to still do you a massive favor, and then when they don't immediately say "hey lets be best friends right now" you decide they hate you and the proper solution is to join up with their rival and then go kick the shit out of them?

Wait, what?

You do realize your in-game experience is not cannon right?

RIGHT?

Or no?

Because look, this is what it comes all boils down to: You feel like your faction was invested in helping the Nightborne because YOU WERE.

Here is cannon: The Alliance were not invested in helping the Nightborne, they were cold and stand-offish and only interested in stopping Gul'dan and the Legion.

Last time I checked the Blood Elves also fought a war for them and didn't do so reluctantly, but reached out to them and developed strong diplomatic ties. You know like nations do IRL.

Also things that happen IRL: You fight a war and then afterward nations you were allied with become your enemies.

See: Cold War for example.

God this is not an interesting conversation.

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I don't think I like that. You can argue about whether or not she's a good character but her being brash, blunt, not very diplomatic and putting her own thoughts and opinions first has been pretty standard for her.

Night Elves under Tyrande are basically WOW's version of extremist "animal liberation" organizations that set cars on fire and shit. Unless the car belongs to members of the Alliance, for gameplay reasons.

[derpkitteh]

They take sides before the war breaks out. That's why it's not a big deal that Alleria is around Silvermoon. They took a side for no reason.

My logic is based on every interaction we've seen so far post Antorus.


Except that there's none of it. Just Tyrande asking that first question, accepting that Thalyssra is okay and then agreeing to fight alongside her.

Last time I checked, fighting a war for someone and having your troops die for them isn't "acting like a dick". The Moon Guard certainly weren't acting like dicks. The Druids certainly weren't acting like dicks.

All of those are Night Elves with heavy ties to the Darnassian faction.

Also, that is absolutely not how it works IRL. In what world do you hang out with the wrong crowd, abandon someone, they come back and agree to still do you a massive favor, and then when they don't immediately say "hey lets be best friends right now" you decide they hate you and the proper solution is to join up with their rival and then go kick the shit out of them?

the moon guard have no connection to greater night elf society. up until cataclysm, they would have been put to death by the night elves had they known of them.

people shouldn't mention them in arguments for night elven allegiance. they have no part in it. they would probably be more likely to join the nightborne now than the highborne that rejoined the night elves.

[Deleted]

What you are saying is not what these other people in this thread are saying at all. They are saying the Nightborne joining the Horde in and of itself is bad writing. I do not understand why you even defend them, they are neither on your side or my side they're pretty close to the homeless guy on the bus talking about crazy stuff that actually makes no sense side.

You're perfectly reasonable. I have no objections to what you're saying here. But we haven't even played this stuff yet, we don't know the full context. People are complaining about small snippets of dialogue that paint a picture of pretty standard diplomacy going on not dissimilar from a RL situation and saying that is just bad writing. Well compared to what? Expectations play a big role in how disappointed you are by something and well I mean if you're expecting the end-all be all of fantasy writing to come out of WOW I would suggest that you take off your rose-tinted glasses and realize the writing in WOW is so fucking stupid the only reason the Night Elves are even part of the Alliance is because of the Horde needing resources to survive. You know, the same Horde that saved the world from the 2nd Demon Invasion at the Battle of Mount Hyjal?

Whether or not writing is good is a matter of opinion. HOWEVER, in strict terms of how video game (not dissimilar from film/tv) stories are told is by showing us rather than telling us. Objectively speaking exposition should be kept to a minimum. We don't need all of this exposition you're asking for here, when they set up an opportunity after the Nightborne are in the Horde where Thalyssra and Elisande can have a confrontation, in fact that is just plain how you set up drama. Who knows where this is going, but it's certainly not even a finished story that we've experienced yet.

Do you make up head cannon all day long? they "helped" save the world TOGETHER(all of this was mutually beneficial for everyone involved aka as much saving themselfs)with humans AND the night elfs hell did you even play WC3? Also is so damn hillarious that just previous to the events of the world tree which was stopped by Malfurion summoning all those wisps to stop Archimonde alot of these "heroic" amazing "heroes" couldn't resist drinking from demon blood again unlike you thinking the horde solely saved the world(head cannon) with little to no fault hell they killed Cenarius AFTER invading someone else´s land and chopping down the trees with no regard to what they meant to the night elfs.

[Squiggit]

Because look, this is what it comes all boils down to: You feel like your faction was invested in helping the Nightborne because YOU WERE.

Here is cannon: The Alliance were not invested in helping the Nightborne, they were cold and stand-offish and only interested in stopping Gul'dan and the Legion.

You're correct. The overaching storyline of Legion and what we know of pre-BfA makes Thalryssa's choice to side with the Horde not really surprising. But I also think it's understandable why an Alliance player would be annoyed given how personal Legion's storytelling was.

Night Elves under Tyrande are basically WOW's version of extremist "animal liberation" organizations that set cars on fire and shit. Unless the car belongs to members of the Alliance, for gameplay reasons.

Their relationship with the Alliance works if you think of it as an alliance of convenience. They don't necessarily have a lot in common with them, but they dislike the orcs even more and the humans/dwarves/gnomes act as a force multiplier and buffer in that conflict.

[Hitei]

Wait, what?

You do realize your in-game experience is not cannon right?

RIGHT?

Or no?

Because look, this is what it comes all boils down to: You feel like your faction was invested in helping the Nightborne because YOU WERE.

Here is cannon: The Alliance were not invested in helping the Nightborne, they were cold and stand-offish and only interested in stopping Gul'dan and the Legion.

Last time I checked the Blood Elves also fought a war for them and didn't do so reluctantly, but reached out to them and developed strong diplomatic ties. You know like nations do IRL.

Also things that happen IRL: You fight a war and then afterward nations you were allied with become your enemies.

See: Cold War for example.

God this is not an interesting conversation.

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Night Elves under Tyrande are basically WOW's version of extremist "animal liberation" organizations that set cars on fire and shit. Unless the car belongs to members of the Alliance, for gameplay reasons.

What are you going on about, guy? I feel like the Alliance was invested in helping the Nightborne because I fucking watched the Sentinels laying down their lives to take the streets from the Duskwatch right alongside the forces under Liadrin. You can whine and moan about how Tyrande didn't trust the Nightfallen all you want but it doesn't change the actions she look.

There was nothing reluctant about the Night Elf participation in the war. Tyrande asked how Thalyssra could be trusted, Thalyssra explained herself, and Tyrande said okay we'll do it. Wanting the citizens to also rise up and help so that you don't have to do everything for them isn't reluctance, it's a pretty reasonable expectation.

Here is the canon (one "n", two is the thing you fire): The Alliance put their lives on the line to help the Nightfallen take Suramar and kill Gul'dan. The Blood Elves put their lives on the line to help the Nightfallen take Suramar and kill Gul'dan. It is dumb for the Nightfallen to be picking sides when both helped so much. It is even more retarded for them to be running off to actively fight either side.

the moon guard have no connection to greater night elf society. up until cataclysm, they would have been put to death by the night elves had they known of them.

people shouldn't mention them in arguments for night elven allegiance. they have no part in it. they would probably be more likely to join the nightborne now than the highborne that rejoined the night elves.

You are confusing the pre-War Moon Guard (Xavius) with the post outbreak of fighting Moon Guard (Ravencrest) who stood right alongside the rest of the resistance fighting demons until Ravencrest was killed, after which it ended up partially under the command of Jarod (Absolutely Darnassian) and Illidan.

I really doubt they'd join the Horde alongside the Nightborne over their former Commander and the rest of their race.

[derpkitteh]

You are confusing the pre-War Moon Guard (Xavius) with the post outbreak of fighting Moon Guard (Ravencrest) who stood right alongside the rest of the resistance fighting demons until Ravencrest was killed, after which it ended up partially under the command of Jarod (Absolutely Darnassian) and Illidan.

I really doubt they'd join the Horde alongside the Nightborne over their former Commander and the rest of their race.

they are still highborne, like the shendralar. the night elves would have killed them, and they likely have more in common with the nightborne.