Can Communism be Modified to Work?

[Deleted]

The Soviet Union style of communism failed, but does that mean we should give up on the idea entirely?

Although, the original Marx design of communism doesn't work, it is based on a better foundation, and that foundation is altruism. So, I ask, can communism be modified to work?

Two pages in and no one has pointed out that Marxism bears very little resemblance to the Soviet system.

Which gives you an indication of how valid the responses in this thread are. There are few comments from any one who is familiar with Marx or Soviet history, and not a single quotation or source. There are lots of comments from Americans who have a view of communism that is clearly shaped by bad television and films.

I am not sure why so many people feel qualified to comment on something they know, quite literally, nothing about.

[Dezerte]

Perhaps with some major changes, but then would it really still be Communism? Communism is far too idealistic, and is really fragile in regards to our human nature.

Maybe in time, e.g. a massive automation of jobs in the future may make something Communism-like more workable out of necessity.

[Paperfox]

If you start with Communism, then throw it out completely and then use something like Democracy, then that'll work.

Try looking at the history of the countries that are, or were, communist. You will find that most of the governments end up killing a significant portion of the population.

The Ukrainian famine was created entirely by the Soviets.

Lenin, Stalin, Mao S Tung (spelling?) - all killed millions of their own citizens.

[Dsc]

NO. Everytime Marxist/communists/progressives create another hell on earth, ie venezuala, or kill a few hundred million people via gunshots to the back of the head or starvation ( hiyaaa Mao Stalin ect. they screech "it just wasn't done right... next time...

definition of insanity. these people are it.

The definition of insanity, is, doing the exact same thing over and over again, expecting different results.

[bladeXcrasher]

All I know is Americans are obsessive paranoid about Communism

We are?

/10char

[Deleted]

If you start with Communism, then throw it out completely and then use something like Democracy, then that'll work.

Try looking at the history of the countries that are, or were, communist. You will find that most of the governments end up killing a significant portion of the population.

The Ukrainian famine was created entirely by the Soviets.

Lenin, Stalin, Mao S Tung (spelling?) - all killed millions of their own citizens.

There were famines and atrocities committed in non-socialist countries, Jeb.

[Allybeboba]

tsk tsk....
Communist sympathizers on MMOC...

[Independent voter]

Can Communism be Modified to Work?



The Soviet Union and China back in the day had thriving black markets, black markets the closest thing you can get to pure capitalism. So I'll say that if you let capitalism control all your purchasing and sales, all your markets, you can let communism do the rest.

Kind of like Sweden.

[Zelk]

it doesn't need to be modified

[igualitarist]

Everytime someone tried to do this, people died massively.

[WinningOne]

The Soviet Union style of communism failed, but does that mean we should give up on the idea entirely?

I like the idea of communism because at its core it reflects the idea of community and collectivism that are central to the human experience. Capitalism tends to focus on greed, individualism and hierarchies, but I cannot see how long this system can last as the world is populated with more and more people. As the global population grows, there must be more sharing of resources. This runs contrary to the capitalistic vices greed, individualism, and hierarchies. It is impossible to have an increasing population while wealth and resources becoming concentrated on fewer and fewer. Doing so risks political division, race war, class war, civil war, and potentially world war.

Although, the original Marx design of communism doesn't work, it is based on a better foundation, and that foundation is altruism. So, I ask, can communism be modified to work?

First off, Capitalism and Communism are not comparable. Capitalism is an economic system and Communism is a system of government. Also, greed is not a vice which is uniquely a problem with Capitalism. It is a problem which exists in all economic systems because it is a problem which people have. Finally, Individualism and Hierarchies are not vices. Anyway, the answer to your question is No. It cannot be modified to work unless it is modified into something which doesn't rely on Altruism. There are very few people who will be willing to go to school for 8 to 12 years to become a doctor, work 24 to 36 hour shifts including holidays, and accept the same lifestyle as someone who's greatest goal in life is to be a cashier at the grocery store. Also, in that situation, almost everyone's greatest goal in life will be to work as a cashier at the grocery store. So, you, as the leader of that country, start doing aptitude testing and forcing people into careers based on the needs of the country, but everyone sucks at their job because they're being forced into it instead of getting to stand around pushing buttons on a cash register. Eventually you get tired of listening to 320 million grocery cashiers complain about how they don't have a good doctor to go to, or a dentist, or a plumber, or a roofer, or an electrician, so you start giving yourself a nice quiet pay bump because you have an extra burden. Then, you realize you'll need a military to keep all the ungrateful jerks in line so you promise extra benefits for military personnel which quadruples the size of your military which means you need more manufacturing which draws resources away from higher education, which is good anyway because educated people are more likely to realize how much their lives suck under Communism. Eventually, the country is a mess, everyone is miserable, so the one group you've made sure is healthy and well cared for, the military, also happens to have all the guns and they decide they can do a better job then you so they form a coup and hang you at the National Mall being sure to stream it live on Youtube. Then General Kasparov inspires the nation with speeches about sacrifice, discipline and loyalty which is why most of your personal freedoms will be removed and soldiers will begin randomly searching your home and place of work. Also, be sure to turn in your friends and neighbors if they seems like they're being disloyal to the great national vision. Long live the United Socialist States of America!

[Phookah]

Sure. Modified to the point where it's nothing close to communism, but sure.

[Sama-81]

That is just not true according to human evolution. Humans cannot survive completely alone, they need others to designate tasks for the survival of the group. We are a communal species. We are far stronger together than apart. There has to be a way to harness that.

We are indeed a communal species, but that by no means mean that we are anywhere close to actually being altruistic. Nor does it mean that we care equally much about all our peers (or that we, from a biological perspective, even should), or that we actually become 'stronger' per se by forming one very large unit instead of many large-sized units that can cooperate when necessary. In terms of primitive biology, we are MUCH more likely to end up capitalist than anywhere near communist, as a species - that much is glaringly evident for anyone actually possessing a, to the topic, relevant education. Somewhat tangential as it may be. Also, it ought to be said, that if we bestow nature with anthropomorphic qualities, it's interest in cooperation on our part is not any sort of lofty goal in and of itself - in fact, it's a very clear evolutionary benefit to more or less "hardwire" a certain (rather large, actually) amount of members of the species to be markedly egoistical, and more or less outright sabotage for the greater group when possible. Which in fact is a very common occurrence in the animal world, in terms of communal species. Either way, human evolution most certainly isn't an argument anyone promoting communism should embrace, if he/she wants to make a convincing argument.

[Deleted]

that much is glaringly evident for anyone actually possessing a, to the topic, relevant education.

Those of us who possess an education would be able to produce some support for our comments with references to relevant texts or history. Rather than random and incoherent stream-of-consciousness masquerading as substantive fact.

[Mittens]

Nope. The advantages of having hierarchical structures are too much for any other model to be able to compete.

[Sama-81]

Those of us who possess an education would be able to produce some support for our comments with references to relevant texts or history. Rather than random and incoherent stream-of-consciousness masquerading as substantive fact.

To which part, exactly? You do know how science works, right? If you write a source to someone making a statement, it doesn't actually hold any merit from a scientific point of view. If you want examples of communal species where a certain percentage of individuals is, more or less literally, hardwired to go against the group - then google it? It is a very well known phenomenon, both in biology and other fields, such as game theory. I'm sure anyone can find that information more or less equally easy. Particularly so now when I'm not at home, and can't easily slip through the paywalls I otherwise wouldn't have to care the least about. Also, many of these things (such as the above example) aren't sourced when lectured about in biology - reason being that it is considered "common knowledge" (ie, within the field in question, not necessarily the general populace). And I'm not being facetious here, it's just not a contentious statement in that setting.

[Deleted]

To which part, exactly? You do know how science works, right? If you write a source to someone making a statement, it doesn't actually hold any merit from a scientific point of view. If you want examples of communal species where a certain percentage of individuals is, more or less literally, hardwired to go against the group - then google it? It is a very well known phenomenon, both in biology and other fields, such as game theory. I'm sure anyone can find that information more or less equally easy. Particularly so now when I'm not at home, and can't easily slip through the paywalls I otherwise wouldn't have to care the least about. Also, many of these things (such as the above example) aren't sourced when lectured about in biology - reason being that it is considered "common knowledge" (ie, within the field in question, not necessarily the general populace). And I'm not being facetious here, it's just not a contentious statement.

You clearly don't know how Marxism is supposed to work. You have to know how something is supposed to work to disagree with it. Nor do you seem to know much about history. Early man was actually defined by primitive communism which directly contradicts you.

[Saucexorzski]

You clearly don't know how Marxism is supposed to work. You have to know how something is supposed to work to disagree with it. Nor do you seem to know much about history. Early man was actually defined by primitive communism which directly contradicts you.

What is your solution the those who would not follow your desired ideological dogma in your modified communistic society?

[lummiuster]

Anyone who actually read deeply into communism knows that it is by far better than any other system. At the condition that its leader is elected democratically and that the leader(s) are not trying to rob the country.
Communism can make a country multiple times richer and more productive while minimizing corruption and having people work much LESS when compared to capitalism.
It is totally useless to argue about it with other people because if they haven't read books about different systems they will never understand and they will stick to what media told them.

[Gutpile]

Yeah, sure. Let's try it again. It's only killed hundreds of millions of people in the previous attempts.

Fucking moronic.