Antorus is extremely undertuned (normal/heroic)

[Not A Cat]

They can absolutely balance it around having 2 legendaries, come on lol. You get that in 3 weeks, tops.

You say that, but it's still RNG. Balancing something around RNG is horrible design. Not to mention the cries on the forums would be extremely loud.

[Deleted]

Mythic race start in 53 minutes. We'll see if Mythic is unfertuned as well !

[Ishayu]

You say that, but it's still RNG. Balancing something around RNG is horrible design. Not to mention the cries on the forums would be extremely loud.

Due to the bad luck protection, having 2 legendaries at all isn't really RNG. They can balance around that. They cannot, however, balance around having the two best legendaries, at least not in Heroic/Normal, because that is RNG - and yes that would be bad design, which is why it frustrates hardcore raiders so much, but we take it on the chin because we asked for hard in a game with random loot.

[Accendor]

That's one of the worst charts I've ever seen... literally no explanation of anything (also also kin'Garoth should be the hardest lol)

That being said, yes, it is easier than NH for example, but who cares? I do very much enjoy this raid (unlike ToS) and having fun is what matters, not plain difficulty. And for the most part, Antorus really has a good balance.

If I was only raiding heroic and not mythic I would be totally devestated right now, because in that case next week all the content of this expansion would be over for me and I have nothing to look forward to for probably something around 12 months. So I can see where OP comes from.

- - - Updated - - -

The problem is that by the time this raid came out people are doing normal at 940+ item level. I'm sorry but it should be easy if thats the case. Same could be said for heroic as well.

Well, then the raid is still tuned wrong of the majority of raiding people has this kind of equipment.

[Dawon]

Guys, it's a chart, that means it's true!!

[Ishayu]

If I was only raiding heroic and not mythic I would be totally devestated right now, because in that case next week all the content of this expansion would be over for me and I have nothing to look forward to for probably something around 12 months. So I can see where OP comes from.

Indeed. I don't actually know if OP is one of those people, but I am saying all of this in defense of the heroic guilds who had fun progressing in Heroic in ToS. They deserve fun this tier, too, and it's disappointing if they aren't getting it. For my own personal tastes, I couldn't care less.

[Artemol]

Coven is a Faceroll as long as u have a bdk and a druid

[laughtrey]

You made a linear chart for a raid with non-linear wings.

I mean, that's all that needs to be said really.

[Not A Cat]

Due to the bad luck protection, having 2 legendaries at all isn't really RNG. They can balance around that. They cannot, however, balance around having the two best legendaries, at least not in Heroic/Normal, because that is RNG - and yes that would be bad design, which is why it frustrates hardcore raiders so much, but we take it on the chin because we asked for hard in a game with random loot.

It's still RNG because there's no definitive way to get it other than playing the game and getting lucky. Bad luck protection is a safeguard yes, but that doesn't get rid of the element of RNG. Even BLP isn't full proof and it could still take a while to get a legendary.

And that doesn't take into consideration that there are bad legendaries, some even have horrible stats. Luckily they are getting rid of it for the next expansion, because clearly it did not help balancing for raids. ToS was an example of tuning things around having that stuff, people were complaining that it was overtuned.

[Ishayu]

Coven is a Faceroll as long as u have a bdk and a druid

Do tell. The Druid roots are nice, but how do you use a BDK? We have one, but we still had some, not a lot but some, problems with the old men walking across the room. I assume that's the part you can make easier? Cause it's the only hard part there is.

The most signature move of a BDK is to mass grip, but I can't imagine mass gripping all the men onto you is a good idea. Mind explaining? ^^

[Xires]

Kind of have to agree. Coven and Aggramar were by far the hardest bosses in there. Eonar was so easy it didn't even make sense. You **** literally everything up and it turns into a terrible mess, you've got mobs rampaging all over the map... jk you win. It's like the first boss in HFC, except even worse.

There's a reason Tower Defense maps required you to clear the wave. Eonar is basically Blizzard taking a solid concept and butchering it beyond repair.

Argus was way too easy as well. I don't mind his mechanics or even his damage output, but he just doesn't have enough health to actually warrant all the help you're getting from the Pantheon. If you didn't get free resses or free massive stat boosts, boss would probably have been alright.

Varimathras is hilariously easy as long as people know their place. It's literally *just* a "hurr durr" test. You only wipe to it if you #yolo around the room for no reason.

Before anyone asks:
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-gb/ch...stmane/ishayoe

It says I haven't killed Argus on Heroic; that is false, I have. In fact we 1-shot him.

We 1 shot him as well. Worked out the bugs and saw the fights on normal, then went into heroic and cleared 11/11. I think possibly mythic is where the difficulty will be. Some of those fights that were super easy may not be so easy on mythic...but we'll see.

[Ishayu]

It's still RNG because there's no definitive way to get it other than playing the game and getting lucky. Bad luck protection is a safeguard yes, but that doesn't get rid of the element of RNG. Even BLP isn't full proof and it could still take a while to get a legendary.

And that doesn't take into consideration that there are bad legendaries, some even have horrible stats. Luckily they are getting rid of it for the next expansion, because clearly it did not help balancing for raids. ToS was an example of tuning things around having that stuff, people were complaining that it was overtuned.

Yeah it does. The bad luck protection literally lands you at 100% eventually, at which point it's not RNG. The two land at 100% really fast. Typically 2-3 raids and 20 emissary caches is all it takes to have a 90% chance of two leggos. Add another raid on top, and it's 100% chance.

[grexly75]

I'd like to also add. Normal is made for 910 gear sets. Most people that have already done it out geared that.

Pretty much by the time Antorus opened most players were way over geared for the raid..

[Tarba]

Do tell. The Druid roots are nice, but how do you use a BDK? We have one, but we still had some, not a lot but some, problems with the old men walking across the room. I assume that's the part you can make easier? Cause it's the only hard part there is.

The most signature move of a BDK is to mass grip, but I can't imagine mass gripping all the men onto you is a good idea. Mind explaining? ^^

You can mass grip on a target.

[Yorimar]

so here is what i dont get. this whole xpansion i hear moaning about raids being to easy. then KJ comes along and everyone was moaning it was to hard and now its to easy again? make up your damn minds :S

[Aeula]

Normal and Heroic should be relatively easy.

Unpuggable difficulties like Mythic can have all the hard crap.

50 wipes on KJ isn’t fun, it’s infuriatingly boring.

[Baza]

The chart is completely made up by me obviously, I don't know what you are complaining about. The "optimal difficulty" is what in general I believe should be the difficulty in raids, each boss harder than the previous one. No raid was exactly like that of course, but in general, yea, the earlier bosses are always easier than the later bosses, with the last one being by far the hardest. The "actual difficulty" is my estimation of the raid so far - I did 9/11 heroic, playing in EU, so 99% sure that we'll get the last 2 today before the reset. So the first 9 are based mostly on my feeling, and the last 2 are based on data from wowprogress and youtube videos.

[Deleted]

The chart is completely made up by me obviously, I don't know what you are complaining about. The "optimal difficulty" is what in general I believe should be the difficulty in raids, each boss harder than the previous one. No raid was exactly like that of course, but in general, yea, the earlier bosses are always easier than the later bosses, with the last one being by far the hardest. The "actual difficulty" is my estimation of the raid so far - I did 9/11 heroic, playing in EU, so 99% sure that we'll get the last 2 today before the reset. So the first 9 are based mostly on my feeling, and the last 2 are based on data from wowprogress and youtube videos.

Ppl will care more if you base your opinion after you have killed all the bosses not just randomly state how hard they are.

[ceall]

Almost all bosses, especially Argus, are way undertuned on normal and heroic. Very disappointing. Argus, the last boss of the expansion, supposed to be the harderst, but he's such a pushover. I was expecting another KJ with 50+ or 100+ wipes on heroic, but it's completely not the case. Mythic will still be brutally hard, I hope. Here's my dodgy chart of the difficulty in Antorus:

Why isnt varimathras down there with worldbreaker? Its basically a Patchwork fight, which has even less movement involved than worldbreaker.

[KaPe]

Why isnt varimathras down there with worldbreaker? Its basically a Patchwork fight, which has even less movement involved than worldbreaker.

Because a single positioning mistake from tanks will probably mean a wipe, as he'll debuff and kill them both before you can recover.