Out of control! Antorus normal be 945 and ahead of the curve Antorus or no invite

[Alphatorg]

The people I find crying the most about a lack of community are the ones who are antisocial themselves. Because the rest, who socialize, have friends and guilds to fill their groups and raids so they don't have to complain about random strangers not wanting to carry them.

[Heladys]

Hey, is it time for make your own group, or run with a guild again? I think it is!

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

The people I find crying the most about a lack of community are the ones who are antisocial themselves. Because the rest, who socialize, have friends and guilds to fill their groups and raids so they don't have to complain about random strangers not wanting to carry them.

This has been my experience as well. My guild is all about helping each other and having fun together. Community is something you build collectively, not something you queue for when convenient and expect random strangers to provide.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, that is the summary of what most people write in this trade. I Counter-summarize that with: It's a bad thing and we have no community anymore

You definition of community seems to be that random strangers should work like they are your henchmen.

- - - Updated - - -

Never have this issue. The problem people have comes down to applying to the wrong type of groups.

Do you have a High Ilvl? AoTC? You can sign up for those gloryfilled 1 shot groups and general smooth run groups.

Do you have a lower Ilvl and no AoTC? Then you should sign up to Low Ilvl requirement learning groups / groups that you can expect a good bit of wipes on.

This is the problem I see people having. Obviously everyone wants a smooth run and a guaranteed kill. But if you have not putt in the work/effort(/luck) to get to the point of those groups, don't expect to get invited to them.

I have 2 characters I play on. My main which I raid with my Guild. We tend to do Heroic as a Guild for the first month of release then focus on Mythic. After we focus on Mythic only I join those 1 shot groups to get my Heroic clear out of the way. And an alt that is fairly geared, I of course try to get invited to the 1 shot groups, but when they don't favor me, I join the less appealing groups. And i get into them without a problem.


For instance, looking at the US Premade Groups, there is currently 38 Listings for NORMAL Antorus. And its not even peak hours. Out of these listings I see only 5 with an AoTC requirement. Around 10 (Including the 5 with an AoTC requirement) that have a very high Ilvl requirement. And the nearly 30 more listings with an Ilvl requirement listed as 910-930. I applied to 5 groups on my 927 Rogue that had a AoTC / 940+ Ilvl requirement and got declined from all (And laughed at by one ass hat lol) Then applied to 5 groups that had an Ilvl requirement at 930 or under and got invited to each one.

So there is no issue. You're the issue signing up for something you obviously don't meet the raid leaders requirements for.

Yes! This guy gets it. I MT for the guild team on my main, but sometimes pug on alts. I am fairly humble about which groups I apply to on my alts, and am never offended to see groups I don't qualify for. I would rather be honest and maybe kill fewer bosses than bluff my way into a group and let them down once I'm there.

- - - Updated - - -

During Wrath when my progression guild disbanded, I spent a lot of time getting pugs together for raiding, and spent hours and hours explaining mechanics and helping people learn the raid, as long as their gear was in line with the content and they were willing to pay attention. We didn't have to deal with asking people to overgear the raid.
It took a hell of a lot longer than it would with a guild, but eventually we not only beat the raid, but found a pool of people to start pugging HMs.

It just became harder and harder as time went on to get people to join that sort of group as everyone just wanted a fast, anonymous pug. Half the raid wouldn't stay past one wipe. People wouldn't listen to directions. People screamed to have lower ilevel people kicked or the tanks/heals would leave. There were constant fights about loot and bullying if we did manage to down a boss.
I gave up on it.

The loss of that sort of community is what is really harming the game.

What you did back in Wrath, "spent a lot of time getting pugs together for raiding, and spent hours and hours explaining mechanics and helping people learn the raid" was very commendable. I still see that occasionally, but it is rare and no wonder. As you yourself said, it required a ton of effort and took "a hell of a lot longer than it would with a guild". We can all admire the selfless souls who lead such groups, but I don't think it's fair for any of us to say that every group leader is obligated to do that.

What if we did? What if we decided - got Blizz to make a rule - that anyone starting a group was obligated to set group for auto-accept and teach the fights to anyone who didn't know them, and teach them again every time someone dropped and had to be replaced. Is this the community you are seeking? Because I strongly suspect your community would have a mostly empty group finder.

[glowpipe]

I dont even join normal grps if they dont ask for 940+ilvl and curve

then whats the fucking point of even doing normal. Its not for legendaries. You got all of those ages ago. AP is a thing of the past and you can get that in heroic. Normal drops 930 gear. Why do normal if you won't get shit for doing it ?

[DarkBlade6]

What about you make your own group
Invite any random 915-920+ character and just see what happens
Nothing is gonna happens, you group will wipe on first boss and then disband
Congrats now you understand why people want faceroll run

This raid on normal drops 930ilvl items but a pug composed of players of anything below 930ilvl avg will most likely fail after a few boss, due to no coordination, weak leadership, lazy player and no knowledge of the fights. History has tendency of repeat itself, even after 10 month of SoO or HFC, pugs were still failing hard to complete those raid unless they were getting carried and/or entirely overgearing the level difficulty ... and well nothing has changed since then. This just show how most people don't want to put any sort of effort to do (and learn) the mechanic properly, they just want to stand there and DPS all day long and get free loot.... thx Raid Finder.

[Kelathos]

Least on my server, at this point, the only guilds to have Antorus AOTC are those who raid Mythic.

So it is quite interesting to hear that normal groups are demanding Mythic raiders.

[Isoge]

I'd give anyone a chance. And have on several occassions done so when leading. It's just that curve means less hassle and no stuns on imonar, or wipes on kin'garoth etc.
The only thing I really want from another player is that he/she has read up on tacts and I'd favor curved people because they have proven that they know tacts. Unless ofc they have bought the curve in which case it becomes very obvious after a few bosses. But no, not all groups are 945+ with curve requirements. Only the ones that want to do it quick and have no time to progress on normals.

[Marrilaife]

then whats the fucking point of even doing normal.

Missing tier pieces and trinkets, especially pantheon. You might have done boss on hc, didn't get the item, so you're giving it another shot on normal for the week. For most classes it's worth the ilvl downgrade to get a missing tier piece for 2-set or 4-set bonus. Some people might be lucky and have full sets after this few resets we had already, but many won't especially if all they do is pug and are at the mercy of rng personal loot lottery.

[Deleted]

Least on my server, at this point, the only guilds to have Antorus AOTC are those who raid Mythic.

So it is quite interesting to hear that normal groups are demanding Mythic raiders.

What server is that? There are 900 guilds with curve and without a single mythic kill.

And then there are people like me, who stopped raiding and only doing pugs and are 11/11 hc. So no, curve dont equals mythic raider.

[lockybalboa]

I saw a RL wanting 955+s and AOTC for a normal run lol

[dudurududu]

I'll take you below 945 if you can follow directions and not be a total carry for the group. Normal isn't that difficult.

And how do you know he can do it?

I wish mmo-c created some sort of filter that if you create a thread like this ut gets locked and you get infracted.

@op
People can ask for anything they want if they create a group. It works like that in real life too. When someone needs a job done, does he/she take the person that "appears" better or worse? Your curve us your CV, and clearly your CV is not that great.

[Athalon]

make your own group. i joined today a raid asking for 950, rl was 920, so i leave. Everyone can find the correct group...

[Redroniksre]

While a lot of people who do that you can consider "toxic". People aren't wrong saying make your own group. Except it only works if you aren't a dps. Me and a tank buddy made a group from just two tanks, but a single dps stands no chance.

[ID811717]

It works like that in real life too. When someone needs a job done, does he/she take the person that "appears" better or worse? Your curve us your CV, and clearly your CV is not that great.

Really good point. Anyone working in IT might have seen numerous companies requiring MSc and PhD degrees (and a whole bunch of other crap) to apply for positions that would not seem to require these qualifications... Then you have people applying without having the degrees, missing a whole lot of other required qualifications, and still get taken for the job -- because there was no one better, and it turns out these requirements were not THAT important, "we can teach this new guy everything from scratch". I mean, I have been part of such companies, and have seen it happen from inside. The managers love to go overboard while making the list of requirements.

[Battlebeard]

And how do you know he can do it?

I wish mmo-c created some sort of filter that if you create a thread like this ut gets locked and you get infracted.

@op
People can ask for anything they want if they create a group. It works like that in real life too. When someone needs a job done, does he/she take the person that "appears" better or worse? Your curve us your CV, and clearly your CV is not that great.

Well, that system is terrible IRL so obvious it's terrible in-game too. I mean, IRL, there are millions and millions of people over the world who should have better jobs, and jobs they would absolutely ace. But due to no previous experience or education, they don't get the chance, even though they would do a 100 times better job than the people who did get the job.

Take ANY company, like mine, we have tons of people who are useless but they got the job cause they had a nice CV. What matter the most is personality and the ability to be a good colleague. This is fact IRL and it's reflected in-game too.

[Deleted]

Use this http://www.wow-fake.com/achievement/ to make a "fake achievement" problem solved.

[Meiffert]

make your own group. i joined today a raid asking for 950, rl was 920, so i leave. Everyone can find the correct group...

That's the direct consequence of the "advice" in these threads.
A pretty simple chain of events:

1. I'm 920 ilvl and have never seen these bosses but I heard they drop nice loot so I want in.

2. Most groups require 950 which is higher than what the instance drops. That is ridiculous, surely the instance is balanced for a group 15-20 item levels below what it drops. Yet raid leaders ignore this fact and decline my applications.

3. Let me express my righteous indignation on the forums. Oh, create my own group? What a brilliant idea!

4. I will make my own group, with blackjack and hookers. 915+, everybody's welcome.

5. Oh, we wiped on the first boss? Strange, the early bosses are supposed to be a freebie. Let's try again. Wipe again? People leave the group? Surely just unlucky, let's try again. Same result.

6. Appears that while raid are tuned for a relatively low item level, playing at this item level requires communication and progression. Turns out pugs don't have patience for progressing and don't even speak the same language, much less willing to join a voice com.

7. If only there was a way to increase the chances of my groups succeeding. Oh, overgearing content and previous experience and knowing the mechanics going in gives better chance at killing the bosses?

8. LFM Antorus 950+ Link Curve

The only thing we achieved by this repeated advice is that most "raid leaders" in pugs nowadays are 920 with no idea how to raid lead or how the fights work.

Well, that system is terrible IRL so obvious it's terrible in-game too. I mean, IRL, there are millions and millions of people over the world who should have better jobs, and jobs they would absolutely ace. But due to no previous experience or education, they don't get the chance, even though they would do a 100 times better job than the people who did get the job.

Take ANY company, like mine, we have tons of people who are useless but they got the job cause they had a nice CV. What matter the most is personality and the ability to be a good colleague. This is fact IRL and it's reflected in-game too.

I can't see any correlation at all.
Do you think that an applicant with no education or experience is more likely to have a nice personality or be a team player? Why would that be?

First paragraph is just absurd - do you really think that a random person with no education or experience in the field is going to perform their job better on average?

[Battlebeard]

That's the direct consequence of the "advice" in these threads.
A pretty simple chain of events:

1. I'm 920 ilvl and have never seen these bosses but I heard they drop nice loot so I want in.

2. Most groups require 950 which is higher than what the instance drops. That is ridiculous, surely the instance is balanced for a group 15-20 item levels below what it drops. Yet raid leaders ignore this fact and decline my applications.

3. Let me express my righteous indignation on the forums. Oh, create my own group? What a brilliant idea!

4. I will make my own group, with blackjack and hookers. 915+, everybody's welcome.

5. Oh, we wiped on the first boss? Strange, the early bosses are supposed to be a freebie. Let's try again. Wipe again? People leave the group? Surely just unlucky, let's try again. Same result.

6. Appears that while raid are tuned for a relatively low item level, playing at this item level requires communication and progression. Turns out pugs don't have patience for progressing and don't even speak the same language, much less willing to join a voice com.

7. If only there was a way to increase the chances of my groups succeeding. Oh, overgearing content and previous experience and knowing the mechanics going in gives better chance at killing the bosses?

8. LFM Antorus 950+ Link Curve

The only thing we achieved by this repeated advice is that most "raid leaders" in pugs nowadays are 920 with no idea how to raid lead or how the fights work.




I can't see any correlation at all.
Do you think that an applicant with no education or experience is more likely to have a nice personality or be a team player? Why would that be?

First paragraph is just absurd - do you really think that a random person with no education or experience in the field is going to perform their job better on average?

Not more likely but he/she CAN be a better person. I have worked at various work places, and some have different hiring methods. At one of these companies, where my father is 2nd i charge, he hire the person, not the CV and they were on of the biggest companies in their business in Sweden (fairly small business though but still). It showed it was sucessful to see the person and not the CV.

Other companies, only look at CV and they have a mix of both competent and incompetent people. It's HARD AS F* to hire people properly, as by "ignoring" CV also could end badly.

In short:

The best companies, the most successful and healthy companies, hire the best people regardless of how flashy their CV is. They PUT EFFORT into finding the best people for the job, and that's why they succeed. AND! This should be applied IN GAME TOO! See the person, not the achievement! It's the best way! Effort in recruiting/building raid = best raids!

[Tradu]

Not more likely but he/she CAN be a better person. I have worked at various work places, and some have different hiring methods. At one of these companies, where my father is 2nd i charge, he hire the person, not the CV and they were on of the biggest companies in their business in Sweden (fairly small business though but still). It showed it was sucessful to see the person and not the CV.

Other companies, only look at CV and they have a mix of both competent and incompetent people. It's HARD AS F* to hire people properly, as by "ignoring" CV also could end badly.

In short:

The best companies, the most successful and healthy companies, hire the best people regardless of how flashy their CV is. They PUT EFFORT into finding the best people for the job, and that's why they succeed. AND! This should be applied IN GAME TOO! See the person, not the achievement! It's the best way! Effort in recruiting/building raid = best raids!

Yes, and that's how it works in WoW at the moment... in guilds. You're expecting way too much out of random PuGs.

[Battlebeard]

Yes, and that's how it works in WoW at the moment... in guilds. You're expecting way too much out of random PuGs.

Well, maybe, but I think we can all agree that the quality of PuG raids could certainly increase, so why not fight for a better PuG envoirment, instead of just ignoring the problems. I can't guildraid, PuGs is what I got, so I gotta work hard to make my situation better.