Trump announcing on Weds that USA recognizes Jerusalem as the capital of Israel

[Gaidax]

Do you want to throw those chimps in a gas chamber? a few concentration camps perhaps? since you know according to you they aren't even human.

There's no need, they kill each other just fine by hundreds of thousands

I can't hope match their bloodthirst, so I won't even try.

[Noradin]

There are no illusions here that eventually agreement will have to be reached. Settlements are merely a strategy to raise the stakes.

However agreement can not be made with Hamas in charge and without guarantees of security.

Of course if they are eager to keep playing this game, fine by me, they are living in shit, not us.

They had a serious shot at it in Oslo and Camp David and they squandered it and voted in terrorists. Their problem.

And you never noticed that your own polticans take every step to ensure they vote in terrorists?

Those settlements are meant to cause strife so your political caste can stay in power over "battling" the external threat.

[Gaidax]

Except that you got your weapons from the West, the US flew logistical supplies during the Yom-Kippur War and the only noteworthy weapon that Israel developed and built themselves during the 6 day war was the Uzi. A mighty fun weapon in video games, I have to admit, but it's not what won you the war. What won you the wars were your air force and your armored units. Tell me, what's the Israeli developed air fighter called? What was the Israeli tank before '82? Cos that was the first time Merkava entered the scene. A sweet tank, true enough, but it isn't the tank that built and secured your nation.

You should wipe that arrogant expression off your face, cos Israel had a lot of help during the first few decades. Both in military equipment and in political credit given to you due to the Holocaust.

Israel was fighting with second hand equipment from WWII purchased elsewhere and still managed to win.

There is no need to wipe anything, Israel won wars in fantastic way with minimal casualties and in a way that is teaches in West Point to this day.

US, on the other hand, with all its might could not do shit in the region. Maybe they should have learned from us.

[Noradin]

Yep, that's how Germany and France talked 80 years ago. Look where we are now. You can make friends. You just don't want to. That is your choice. But don't tell me it's the people around you forcing you to go the hardline route. Yitzhak Rabin and Shimon Peres have showed us that Israel can be different.

The don have a choice, they are led around by the nose by their own politicans and don't notice what's happening because it was like that their whole life and they have their flag wound tight around their head.

[Gaidax]

And you never noticed that your own polticans take every step to ensure they vote in terrorists?

Those settlements are meant to cause strife so your political caste can stay in power over "battling" the external threat.

Israel withdrawn from Gaza in 2005 and shut down settlements here - result - Hamas voted in.

It does not matter what Israel does with settlements and if anything the withdrawal was actually a costly mistake and not the other way around.

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The don have a choice, they are led around by the nose by their own politicans and don't notice what's happening because it was like that their whole life and they have their flag wound tight around their head.

It's a reality, we'd make friends sure... With whom though? Even Palestinians can't frikkin agree between themselves who's in charge. With whom we should make friends? Abbas holed in in his tiny enclave or Hamas - a terrorist organization?

[Noradin]

Israel withdrawn from Gaza in 2005 and shut down settlements here - result - Hamas voted in.

It does not matter what Israel does with settlements and if anything the withdrawal was actually a costly mistake and not the other way around.

This post just shows that you never genuinely wanted to withdraw from Gaza, you still wanted to dictate whom they were allowed to vote for.

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It's a reality, we'd make friends sure... With whom though? Even Palestinians can't frikkin agree between themselves who's in charge. With whom we should make friends? Abbas holed in in his tiny enclave or Hamas - a terrorist organization?

So the solution is to upset those who might side with a peaceful solution and undermine any party that might be willing to compromise with you by grabbing land from random people? Because that is what those settlements do: Undermine anyone who might be willing to talk with you. And no, if you withdraw there won't be immideate results. Setting up a party takes time. You'd need at least a decade for things to calm down, I'd guess. And you would have to actively and carefully help the process along, too.

Right now I wouldn't trust your government either, if I was in Gaza.

[Slant]

Israel was fighting with second hand equipment from WWII purchased elsewhere and still managed to win.

There is no need to wipe anything, Israel won wars in fantastic way with minimal casualties and in a way that is teaches in West Point to this day.

US, on the other hand, with all its might could not do shit in the region. Maybe they should have learned from us.

Yes, second hand equipment you got from somewhere else. For free, basically. Just like a lot of the intel you got in the early years was for free. I'm not saying Israel didn't do a good job, because they did. I'm saying you should not be ungrateful and forget who's backing you. Because if it hadn't been for the US holding their hand over you protectively, Israel would've ceased to exist a long, long time ago.

[Gaidax]

This post just shows that you never genuinely wanted to withdraw from Gaza, you still wanted to dictate whom they were allowed to vote for.

That's some crazy logic leap.

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Yes, second hand equipment you got from somewhere else. For free, basically. Just like a lot of the intel you got in the early years was for free. I'm not saying Israel didn't do a good job, because they did. I'm saying you should not be ungrateful and forget who's backing you. Because if it hadn't been for the US holding their hand over you protectively, Israel would've ceased to exist a long, long time ago.

Thing is US did not do shit first two wars because they thought Israel may go with commies. The assistance was a non-factor in those victories.

If anything in 67 Israel could have got even more if not US getting in the way.

[Slant]

The don have a choice, they are led around by the nose by their own politicans and don't notice what's happening because it was like that their whole life and they have their flag wound tight around their head.

Someone over there is in the position to decide policy. They do have a choice. It's not a nature of law that that rather uninteresting piece of rock desert needs to be this fought over. I mean, look at it. Israel's a heap of shit, really. No resources, no strategic value. The only reason everyone's squabbling over there is over a few ruins for crying out loud. Oh, and because they always dunnit. I mean, that's really the most honest reasoning in the whole affair. It's really just tradition. Much like Germany and France used to have this tradition... what was it called? Oh yeah, "who owns Elsaß-Lothringen". At least that area had natural resources worth fighting over. Israel? Fighting over basically a stonewall with paper in it.

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Thing is US did not do shit first two wars because they thought Israel may go with commies. The assistance was a non-factor in those victories.

If anything in 67 Israel could have got even more if not US getting in the way.

The US trying to deescalate doesn't mean they didn't do jack shit. They made sure that Russia didn't interfere directly. That's enough for you to be thankful for.

[Noradin]

That's some crazy logic leap.

Sorry, I don't have the time to dig up all the context right now and give you a comprehensive study what went wrong that time around.
I have to leave for a congress in a few minutes and its a few hours drive.

[Gaidax]

Sorry, I don't have the time to dig up all the context right now and give you a comprehensive study what went wrong that time around.
I have to leave for a congress in a few minutes and its a few hours drive.

Don't forget to grab KFC on the way, Mr. President.

[Khaza-R]

It's OK, Israel stands 70 years by its own strength, Trump or not we will be here for another 70 by our own strength.

Bhahaha.

I guess that’s why the US pays for 20-30% of your total defense budget

[Macaquerie]

US support did not win 48, 67 and 73 for us, US was nowhere to be found there.

In a way, the relative ease with which Israel defeated the Arab states militarily doomed its prospects for stable long term relations with its neighbors. Because of how one-sided those wars were, Israel never developed the kind of healthy adversarial respect for the Arab countries that is necessary for enemy states to coexist in the long term. Rather, you just tend to view them as these mouthbreathing idiots who talk a big game but who you can wedgie and dunk in the toilet whenever your politicians need to shore up domestic support. On the other hand, the Arabs will never accept any kind of peace deal that's handed to them rather than "earned" through force of arms, a victory they can never hope to win. So, here we are almost 70 years later still talking about the same old bullshit, it just gets tiresome after a while.

[Poopymonster]

Isreal's an adversary of the United States that masquerades as an ally in the name of religious sentimentality.

But but but..That's where the Jesusing happened!

[Slant]

In a way, the relative ease with which Israel defeated the Arab states militarily doomed its prospects for stable long term relations with its neighbors. Because of how one-sided those wars were, Israel never developed the kind of healthy adversarial respect for the Arab countries that is necessary for enemy states to coexist in the long term. Rather, you just tend to view them as these mouthbreathing idiots who talk a big game but who you can wedgie and dunk in the toilet whenever your politicians need to shore up domestic support. On the other hand, the Arabs will never accept any kind of peace deal that's handed to them rather than "earned" through force of arms, a victory they can never hope to win. So, here we are almost 70 years later still talking about the same old bullshit, it just gets tiresome after a while.

This is a good summary. How about we just build a wall around the ME and let them duke it out. We can open it in another 100 years to see if whoever survived the slaughter has more intelligence than these people.

[Deleted]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsGK1I90x-c

Good ol Ben explaining why this won´t matter to a peace process.

Kudos to Trump, upholding what he promises.

[Draco-Onis]

Doing a lot of blabbering there yourself - the arab world is split on direction sunni vs shia pretty much nothing else.

That's what I just said Saudi Arabia Sunni afraid of Iran's growing power Shia /facepalm.

[Mormolyce]

I mean... I don't even know what's dumber, if they're trying to push a colossal lie that this won't impede the peace process because they don't give a shit... or if they actually believe it.

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Zionism is not religiously motivated. It's political. It has some branches and some aspects that are religious, but the motivation is ethnic. And it's a response movement to anti-Semitic discrimination. Discrimination that escalated through the decades.
Pretending that Zionism is purely religious is revisionism. The kind that /pol/ would be proud of. The kind of criticism that, at the time, escalated the struggle, culminating in the Holocaust.

I'll give you that Zionism isn't purely religious. Yes it's ethno-religious, because Jews are an ethnic group and a religion. And of course there is a political dimension as well. These things are all tangled together, which is of course a big part of the problem.

Ethnic groups can be organized around several features. Religion is often very prominent. But language, spoken and written, is more so.
Whatever the characteristic, the origin is not a precise point, but an era in which a culture emerged. It is arbitrary, like every culture.
Just like Afro-Americans have an origin story to their ethnic group: the slave trade. One that arbitrarily organizes their cultural beliefs. One that arbitrarily organizes structural discrimination too. Just like Jews.
Skepticism about their existence as a kind of peoples, with an origin story, is disingenuous and at the core of xenophobic discrimination.

But "afro-Americans" were the opposite of the Jewish diaspora - an eclectic group of people of different cultures forced into one "people" through a shared experience that essentially over time created a new ethnic group unto itself. The Jews were one people but splintered into many after the expulsion, and diverged for centuries.

And they didn't even speak the language anymore - Hebrew was practically a liturgical language at the time. They spoke the languages of the diaspora.

[Acidbaron]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsGK1I90x-c

Good ol Ben explaining why this won´t matter to a peace process.

Kudos to Trump, upholding what he promises.

These talks are surrounded with a lot of emotions and easy triggers based on emotions, having some random guy explaining why those emotions and feelings suddenly don't matter say it all really. They do matter, perhaps a whole lot less since there's plenty of outrage to go around. But this comes down to american incompetence meddling again where they shouldn't.

[Deleted]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsGK1I90x-c

Good ol Ben explaining why this won´t matter to a peace process.

Kudos to Trump, upholding what he promises.

https://twitter.com/benshapiro/status/25712847277
https://townhall.com/columnists/bens...y-word-n976781

Cos hes a voice of reason and not a complete cunt who advocates ethnic cleansing.