Should more complex stats make a return? (block%, MP5, hit, defense rating, etc)

[Deleted]

what justifies a stat that only benefits 5 of 50 classes?

You mean specs right? I was only the specs it was BiS for at some point. It still had usefullness to many other specs, like most stats do.

There are 36 specs in the game not 50

As i said in a previous post. I dont mind stats the benefit tanks 7/36 or healers 6/36 specs. Not every item has to be usefull for every spec.

[Rorixis]

I would like to see multistrike come back in a pve only sense for select pieces of gear and the proc chance should be much lower but the effect actually is a 100% copy of whatever spell you cast. It should be a special stat and give an awesome effect where you cast 2 of the same spell at the same time similar to how it looks freaking awesome when you Havoc 2 Chaos Bolts, multistrike should be like, tossing 2 giant pyroblasts at the same and similar stuff. So it would problably be some pve-trinket effect but I dont think its interesting as just a stat that copies 40% of your damage or whatever it was, thats just another crit.

[Deleted]

the problem is that most stats people propose don't benefit all classses. Hit doesn't help healers at all

What is the problem with that?

[Hisholyness]

You mean specs right? I was only the specs it was BiS for at some point. It still had usefullness to many other specs, like most stats do.

There are 36 specs in the game not 50

As i said in a previous post. I dont mind stats the benefit tanks 7/36 or healers 6/36 specs. Not every item has to be usefull for every spec.

oh well then i disagree

[HumbleDuck]

the problem is that most stats people propose don't benefit all classses. Hit doesn't help healers at all

Again, what do you find interesting or complex about hit rating? You hit a cap and forget about it ... Didn't effect the gameplay, didn't effect the gearing for the most part, ...
Same analogy goes for most of the stats they removed, they weren't complex, they were either boring or troublesome.

[Deleted]

oh well then i disagree

I'm guessing you are against different armor types and that not all specs in the game can use all weapon types aswell then?

[Hisholyness]

Again, what do you find interesting or complex about hit rating? You hit a cap and forget about it ... Didn't effect the gameplay, didn't effect the gearing for the most part, ...
Same analogy goes for most of the stats they removed, they weren't complex, they were either boring or troublesome.

we're agreeing with each other

- - - Updated - - -

I'm guessing you are against different armor types and that not all specs in the game can use all weapon types aswell then?

i am for different armor types and for class/weapon separation. whats your point?

[Deleted]

we're agreeing with each other

- - - Updated - - -



i am for different armor types and for class/weapon separation. whats your point?

That you want every spec in the game to be able to use every item except its ok for different armor types and weapons.

I dont see the point in that. Why is it different? Why is it ok that you cant use all weapons but its not ok that not all trinkets are usefull for you?

[kary]

OS was out way before TotGC...

- - - Updated - - -



Your point is that Armor Penetration is useless as caster classes including elemental but usefull for enhancement since its a melee class.

Which is where you are wrong because the amount of physical damage an enhancement shaman does is not enough to justify stacking armor pen.

....

Fair, actually forgot togc was a thing, so I thought of anub'rekhan
Still, very very niche, niche to the point of uselessness.

That's why it's gone

[Deleted]

Fair, actually forgot togc was a thing, so I thought of anub'rekhan
Still, very very niche, niche to the point of uselessness.

That's why it's gone

I think its most likely gone as part of the stat pruning and blizzard wanting everyone to be able to use most items.

After all shield block rating and value pretty much only had a real value for 2 specs in the entire game.

The unhittable add tank was usefull in pretty much every scenario involving non-boss level adds.

[Hisholyness]

That you want every spec in the game to be able to use every item except its ok for different armor types and weapons.

I dont see the point in that. Why is it different? Why is it ok that you cant use all weapons but its not ok that not all trinkets are usefull for you?

u gotta stop with the double negative dude

[Queen of Hamsters]

This is such a stupid pointless post.

People are way better at optimising themself today then we where in vanilla.

I seriously hate the "back then people where smart, not like today. The youth playing games today are brainless fucktards".

You just sound like a fucking moron when you type that shit

Indeed.

"I could look at more stats back in MY days, hurr durr I was teh better playurr, so hardcore!".

Meanwhile most raid leaders from back then can testify to bringing absolute retards, as in less-aware-than-LFR-players-of-today-level players, to raids based solely on items they had equipped and if they could spare the time...

I'd love to see a player get in with the big ones based on having an item level alone, what with the min-maxing and nitpicking going on with stats and individual pieces and old set pieces and titanforging and logs and what have you these days...

[Deleted]

u gotta stop with the double negative dude

aha... so instead of answering the question you just decide to ignore it because of some pointless errors you can easily read through?

[Hisholyness]

aha... so instead of answering the question you just decide to ignore it because of some pointless errors you can easily read through?

i already answered your question

[kary]

I think its most likely gone as part of the stat pruning and blizzard wanting everyone to be able to use most items.

After all shield block rating and value pretty much only had a real value for 2 specs in the entire game.

The unhittable add tank was usefull in pretty much every scenario involving non-boss level adds.

Block in it's current iteration is a lot better than block before.
Block (value)had no use on raid bosses, only on trash.

Warriors right now remain unhittable with shield block up for the most part, with 100% block (and 40% damage reduction on all blocked hits, rather than a set value that was until late wotlk independent of your other stats, and was impossible to get to a notable value with actual boss mitigation gear)

And again, it got pruned because it was niche/useless 9/10 times

[Deleted]

Indeed.

"I could look at more stats back in MY days, hurr durr I was teh better playurr, so hardcore!"

- Meanwhile the min-maxing and nitpicking going on with stats and individual pieces and old set pieces and titanforging and what have you these days...

I'm not at all afraid of admitting that i was absolute shit in vanilla. And i still managed to beat everything except Naxx. I was wearing gear with spirit on, on my tank because it was purple and ooc regen was apparently a thing during a boss encounter.

- - - Updated - - -

i already answered your question

No you didnt.

I'l ask again.

Why is it ok that you cant use all weapons in the game when its not ok that you cant use all trinkets?

- - - Updated - - -

Block in it's current iteration is a lot better than block before.
Block (value)had no use on raid bosses, only on trash.

Warriors right now remain unhittable with shield block up for the most part, with 100% block (and 40% damage reduction on all blocked hits, rather than a set value that was until late wotlk independent of your other stats, and was impossible to get to a notable value with actual boss mitigation gear)

And again, it got pruned because it was niche/useless 9/10 times

Ofcourse block value had use on raid bosses. You could still block their auto's and black value increased the amount you blocked.

Unhittable when blocking every attack is sort of not really unhittable. Today its just a part of your effective health where as back then the idea was that you took 0 damage most of the time.

Its a different mechanic overall. More usefull in general i agree.

I'm not saying its a bad change btw.

[docterfreeze]

Yeah, give em all back. Mana regen, block, hit, expertise, resilience, pvp power, armor pen, magic pen, and resistances.

[Deleted]

How can anyone say that hit was boring? It was different stat, it didn't directly increase how much you hit for. If you want an example of boring stat it would be multistrike, it was just crit with different name. I mean yeah sure it was annoying and I probably wouldn't like to see missing return, but it actually made gearing a bit more interesting because you had to think your upgrade order without losing hitcap. Same was true for haste breakpoints. Stats that are significantly better before certain values are much more interesting, but again I understand that most people find it annoying - me included. When your statweights doesn't change much you just stack your best secondaries which is definition of a dull decision. I don't mean that getting hit cap was rocket science, it was just something you had to aim for.

You have to remember that in PvE scenario most of us sim all our gear anyways so it doesn't even matter if stats are interesting or not. I think you guys are being really selfish when you are trying to limit how people want to play this game. If someone wants to have some "interesting" stats and make their decision themselves instead of using sims, let them have their "fun", you and I will be using sims anyway, it doesn't matter for us. In PvP it used to be a lot different though and I imagine that most people who liked reforging had to be PvP players. In PvP it's harder to evaluate statweights, but due to instanced PvP using stat templates, expertise, hit and breakpoints gone, I don't think there is any reason to bring reforging back - maybe someone likes it because it makes a shit piece a bit less shit but I don't think it would bring much value to anyone.

I loved ArP but I think blizzard hated it so I don't think it will come back especially that now they have made many melees magical damage specs.

[Hisholyness]

I'm not at all afraid of admitting that i was absolute shit in vanilla. And i still managed to beat everything except Naxx. I was wearing gear with spirit on, on my tank because it was purple and ooc regen was apparently a thing during a boss encounter.

- - - Updated - - -



No you didnt.

I'l ask again.

Why is it ok that you cant use all weapons in the game when its not ok that you cant use all trinkets?

- - - Updated - - -



Ofcourse block value had use on raid bosses. You could still block their auto's and black value increased the amount you blocked.

Unhittable when blocking every attack is sort of not really unhittable. Today its just a part of your effective health where as back then the idea was that you took 0 damage most of the time.

Its a different mechanic overall. More usefull in general i agree.

I'm not saying its a bad change btw.

do you mean like trinkets that are limited to just healing or just tanks? Weapons are cosmetic and fantasy oriented while trinkets are exclusively balance oriented

[Nnyco]

hit, exp and defense werent complex though, you just needed to get X amount of those or you were useless, too many and it was a waste, nothin complex about that if anythin those 3 stats were only a massive nuisance