'Parasitic singles' and Japan's demographic problem

[Deleted]

This isn't necessarily a bad thing. In the current state of things, the risk really isn't worth the reward. /shrug

Not to contest that notion, because for the most part I'd agree, but it is still quite problematic and something that needs to be addressed; simply because we cannot assure that there is going to be done much to counter it in regards to life and prosperity.

[Mistame]

Not to contest that notion, because for the most part I'd agree, but it is still quite problematic and something that needs to be addressed; simply because we cannot assure that there is going to be done much to counter it in regards to life and prosperity.

Not sure how you'd do that without denigrating one sex or the other, or both. You can't force people to breed. And as long as the balance of risk/reward is out of whack for one side or the other, there's really no incentive.

In a bit of irony, the solution may very well be to develop a full-proof form of birth control for both men and women since that's the biggest risk factor when it comes to intimacy and finding someone compatible for a monogamous relationship. As it is now, people are trapped either in relationships they don't really want to be in or in a perpetual state of single parenthood, all because of unplanned pregnancies. Obviously, eliminating STIs is a big factor, too, but still. The reality is that the key to happy and [re]productive relationships is the ability to safely peruse the proverbial market with little-to-no risk.

Also, these social movements about "sex" aren't helping, either. When guys are getting ostracized because a woman saw their penis or because they touched someone's back, you're just asking for more trouble. Note that it's not my intent to detract from cases of actual sexual assault, but the inclusion of the /shrug moment is pretty infantile.

[Deleted]

Not sure how you'd do that without denigrating one sex or the other, or both. You can't force people to breed. And as long as the balance of risk/reward is out of whack for one side or the other, there's really no incentive.

No that wasn't what I was getting at. Its that boys are more and more self isolating, because there are these really addictive and attention requiring medias that really sparks their brains. This leads to lesser development in social capability (because they don't spend time with other kids), and that leads to a lesser development in romantic capabilities.

Also, these social movements about "sex" aren't helping, either. When guys are getting ostracized because a woman saw their penis or because they touched someone's back, you're just asking for more trouble. Note that it's not my intent to detract from cases of sexual assault, but the inclusion of the /shrug moment is pretty infantile.

Ehhh, I mean we lived some 2000 years where you could barely touch them before marriage, I have my doubts this is going to have that widespread effect

[Mistame]

No that wasn't what I was getting at. Its that boys are more and more self isolating, because there are these really addictive and attention requiring medias that really sparks their brains. This leads to lesser development in social capability (because they don't spend time with other kids), and that leads to a lesser development in romantic capabilities.

They're more interested in these things because the scales are out of whack. It's perfectly natural and rational to follow the path of least resistance, which just so happens to be porn and video games at the moment.

Ehhh, I mean we lived some 2000 years where you could barely touch them before marriage, I have my doubts this is going to have that widespread effect

And yet we were raping, pillaging and visiting brothels as a filler.

[Deleted]

They're more interested in these things because the scales are out of whack. It's perfectly natural and rational to follow the path of least resistance, which just so happens to be porn and video games at the moment.

And yet we were raping, pillaging and visiting brothels as a filler.

Well yeah it is the easy thing to do, but it is ultimately not the healthiest path to take; per person and society. Not sure how to tip the balance back exactly though, without someone losing out quite a bit (something I think you mentioned as well).

Of course they were pillaging and raping, path of least resistance (you'd get an axe in the head for it back home).

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So the interesting thing about this part...

There is a sort of double whammy... in modern society... chast society (of long skirts, and no cleavage, etc ) actually created men that were really sensitive to women in any state of undress...so stuff like this was actually really risque:

But now you have open access to pornography, and people get hooked and keep viewing more and more extreme stuff... just ask the Germans (I kid).

So there is desensitization and a negative view of having high labido, and fliriting in men...

If I recall right one of the major issues is also that it isn't just men, boys are starting at an age of 13 looking at pornography. And that coupled with high intensity gaming and a wank in between, as a woman you'd have a hard time competing with such a cocktail of instant pleasure.

[Varitok]

Cherry picking

Wanna have some from europe you fake canadians

We have a good immigration system, We bring in skilled labour with families for the most part. You should know this if you are a "real" Canadian.

[Mistame]

Well yeah it is the easy thing to do, but it is ultimately not the healthiest path to take; per person and society. Not sure how to tip the balance back exactly though, without someone losing out quite a bit (something I think you mentioned as well).

And yet personal happiness and bodily autonomy take precedence over society, so if society wants to be sustainable, it needs to find an agreeable solution that doesn't compromise either. Personally, I'd love to have a good woman around, but I'm not going to give up my hobbies, etc, to do it. It's just not worth the trade-off.

[Deleted]

And yet personal happiness and bodily autonomy take precedence over society, so if society wants to be sustainable, it needs to find an agreeable solution that doesn't compromise either.

Government subsidies girlfriends and/or hookers

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Pretty much, yeah. Along with it the constant nagging (of either sex, guys nag as well), and not liking this, that or the other, or food issues, etc, it is easier for most to just stick with their friends, hand, and videogames.

I imagine when VR porn, and digital devices that interact with VR porn, and sex bots become a more common thing, this will get worse. At least in the west... the more "traditional" societies will have more kids.

So I agree it's a problem, but not sure how we solve it without some changes to society/education, etc...

I know that we started having those talks with kids in schools these days in sex ed, but I somehow think that's going to be neglectable in its effect (we are close to Japan levels of child bearings, and immigration is the only thing holding us afloat, but they themselves created other issues).

But yeah, the problem is know, the solution is the real tricky one, if one discounts extreme measures.

[Mistame]

Government subsidies girlfriends and/or hookers

Legalized prostitution while logical, wouldn't really solve this particular problem and would definitely be in need of some risk management. Besides, the entire point of a guy staying single is to not reproduce, which, as I mentioned, is currently the biggest risk in trying to find a suitable mate.

[Deleted]

Legalized prostitution while logical, wouldn't really solve this particular problem and would definitely be in need of some risk management. Besides, the entire point of a guy staying single is to not reproduce, which, as I mentioned, is the biggest risk.

I guess we need to start teaching abstinence only again, because that seems to be the best way of getting young women pregnant.

[Logwyn]

That and as Connal states above, in just 20 years we have created two of some of the most addictive and attention requiring media (video games and pornography), and it is unfortunately mainly consumed by men and it is something that is really having an impact on young males willingness to prospect.

Porn has been around a great deal longer than 20 years.

[Deleted]

Porn has been around a great deal longer than 20 years.

You're correct, to be more accurate: more easily accessible pornography.

[bowchikabow]

Not anymore. They are expected to fall to western level fertility rates within a decade

Your evidence?

[Airlick]

I guess having a society of strict social decorum and a rejection of foreigners back fired.

Japan should be a case study

What backfired is putting the outdated Japanese social model in modern turbocapitalist world. Japan would have been fine with its social model and a complete rejection of foreigners if it was still a half agrarian society. It would still be fine with the rejection of foreigners if the society managed to catch up with the changes of their work conditions. Japan is more or less caught in a trap with no feasible way out. They are a democratic country, so the gov't can't just brainwash its people and get them in line with western way of thinking. Even if gov't wanted that, which it doesn't, it would have riots on its hands instantly. They can't regress to pre-Meiji or even pre-WW2 level of advancement, where their social model was still very much functional, since they have 10 times as large population now and they won't be able to feed it if their GDP suddenly drops to 1% of the current level. They can't let the migrants in, because those migrants would never find a place within their xenophobic society - even that's assuming advanced integration programs existed, the migrants could learn the language perfectly, they could achieve a perfect understanding of the culture - they still wouldn't be able to integrate because they wouldn't be allowed to, as they are not Japanese.

The most likely way things can go from here is a slow decline (though I really wouldn't put it past the Japanese to start euthanizing old people if the situation gets too serious). As the society ages, there will be automatization of elderly care centres. At the same time GDP will keep dropping, the huge companies will start losing ground, Japan will lose its place as one of the leaders of world's economy and development. Small businesses will start popping up to fill the vacuum after corporations fall, and those businesses will allow their employees to live normal lives. Those employees will have time to find partners, they'll have time to raise kids, and slowly the society will recover. Japan's only resource are people, and the people will be gone if the current trend continues. It's already happening, Japanese corporations are already more and more incapable of competing with Western and Chinese ones. For now their employees are still willing to be slaving away, but at some point they have to break.

[Mistame]

I guess we need to start teaching abstinence only again, because that seems to be the best way of getting young women pregnant.

Haha. Sad, but true.

[Tennis]

Im talking about Denmark. . Non-western immigration is a NET negative 32billion DKK(~$5bil). Western immigration gives us a net positive 5billion(~$800mil).

These numbers might seem small, but we are a country of 5.5million people, so its a lot per person.

And no, facts arent racist.

How can you expect Japan, a country with over 120 million people and one of the largest world economies to follow the example of Denmark. We need apples to apples comparisons.

[Socialhealer]

"parasitic singles"

so this is what you're calling yourself these days tennis?

[nanook12]

Oh how the tables have turned. As a communist guess what I finally get to say?

CAPITALISM DOES NOT WORK!


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Ok, a serious question about this trend that seems to slowly grow in the West as well:

Why does the gap between men and women seem bigger than ever today? It seems like men and women are growing so far apart that soon they won't even feel any need to build a life together.

What I personally see is that women are actively building their life starting in their late teens/early twenties. They get degrees, focus on a career and know what they want.
At the same time "men" act like children all the way up to 30 and beyond, not really developing into manhood like previous generations.
Why are men almost devolving while women are becoming the men of the future?

Western men want to be masculine, and college is painted as the antithesis of masculinity in the west. Since the 1950's days of being able to earn a college level income in a physically demanding job are long gone, men just stagnate and rot. Blame capitalism.

[Independent voter]

The Japanese are really into robots, Softbank, Japan's big bank just bought Boston Dynamics for example. The reason the Japanese are so into robots is because if robotic workers become a reality, Japan will never have to import immigrants.

[Tennis]

This isn't necessarily a bad thing. In the current state of things, the risk really isn't worth the reward. /shrug

The reward of love and lifelong companionship isn't worth it. Heard it here first folks.