Drop rate statistics for Amanthul's Vision and other Pantheon trinkets

[Gorsameth]

List isn't even complete, my characters aren't in it, and a few guildies of mine aren't either, take this with a bucket of salt.

It doesn't need everyone, it just needs a large enough pool of people who kill argus atleast once per week.

[Khallid]

Hmm, not 100% sure that me asking a question is posing an argument, but okay.

Arguing with the answer is not a question.

[therealstegblob]

Arguing with the answer is not a question.

Hmm, not 100% sure me asking a question is arguing with the answer, but okay.

You can stop whenever you feel like it, bub.

[Onikaroshi]

Hmm, not 100% sure me asking a question is arguing with the answer, but okay.

You can stop whenever you feel like it, bub.

https://bloodmallet.github.io/

Someone could have just ended the argument by saying its BiS for 12ish specs.

[Marrilaife]

This is the ONLY expansion it has been this way, they keep taking the responsibility away from the guild and placing it fully in the hands of RNG. In no other expansion has BiS, or anything for that matter, been placed directly into someone's bag because they won the lottery.

Legendary drop in vanilla? Guild chooses. That amazing trinket from ICC? Guild chooses. Trinkets from archimonde in wod? You guess it guild chooses.

This type of fuckery has NEVER happened before and is a product of this dev teams love for PL, the most anti-mmo way of looting.

Before Antorus opened my guild master literally said "I hope trinkets are not master looted because people will roast me alive why did I give it to this guy over that guy". I can understand him. In my 2 previous guilds there was loot drama and not even because loot master has been super unfair, but because when that max titanforge drops, people go bazongas over it. That's another reason why I hate titanforge. It brings the worst out of people. Greed. Pettiness. Envy. It all outweighs "moments of excitement", 1 guy being happy while 19 others hate him? What's the point.

But looking at a bigger picture, unfortunately wow has became very anti-guild in a way people just want everything to be puggable. They demand and demand. Blizzard gave them tons of tools, like cross realm raids, flex size, group finder tool and personal loot. And people still cry because they feel entitled to spots in pugs and their loot. It's a community problem Blizzard cannot fix. People don't want to join guilds and let loot in the hands of a loot master. Everyone only cares about themselves. They want to jump into raiding when they want to, with no strings attached. The real reason Blizzard pushed personal loot is that they got tired of mountains of tickets about loot disputes, "ninjas" and whatnot. And they pushed it more and more as people couldn't handle themselves, couldn't be arsed to join guilds and wanted everything to be experienced in pug environment, and then get their share of the loot. So when old systems like DKP, guild loyalty and so forth went out of the window the only thing left was pure lottery.

Half the population doesn't raid, from the remaining half majority only does lfr, and among the minority who does anything above lfr, very tiny portion does guilded raiding (and then only portion of these are mythic guilds). So obviously Blizzard is gonna push the system that is tailored around majority - majority who only raids lfr or pugs normal / hc. I wish it wasn't like that, because lfr / pug raids are toxic and anti-social, but we have democracy and the vote of majority is where the money goes. I enjoy guilded raiding but if someone points out it's on decline I can't really disagree, and the game changes as its playerbase does.

[Onikaroshi]

Before Antorus opened my guild master literally said "I hope trinkets are not master looted because people will roast me alive why did I give it to this guy over that guy". I can understand him. In my 2 previous guilds there was loot drama and not even because loot master has been super unfair, but because when that max titanforge drops, people go bazongas over it. That's another reason why I hate titanforge. It brings the worst out of people. Greed. Pettiness. Envy. It all outweighs "moments of excitement", 1 guy being happy while 19 others hate him? What's the point.

But looking at a bigger picture, unfortunately wow has became very anti-guild in a way people just want everything to be puggable. They demand and demand. Blizzard gave them tons of tools, like cross realm raids, flex size, group finder tool and personal loot. And people still cry because they feel entitled to spots in pugs and their loot. It's a community problem Blizzard cannot fix. People don't want to join guilds and let loot in the hands of a loot master. Everyone only cares about themselves. They want to jump into raiding when they want to, with no strings attached. The real reason Blizzard pushed personal loot is that they got tired of mountains of tickets about loot disputes, "ninjas" and whatnot. And they pushed it more and more as people couldn't handle themselves, couldn't be arsed to join guilds and wanted everything to be experienced in pug environment, and then get their share of the loot. So when old systems like DKP, guild loyalty and so forth went out of the window the only thing left was pure lottery.

Half the population doesn't raid, from the remaining half majority only does lfr, and among the minority who does anything above lfr, very tiny portion does guilded raiding (and then only portion of these are mythic guilds). So obviously Blizzard is gonna push the system that is tailored around majority - majority who only raids lfr or pugs normal / hc. I wish it wasn't like that, because lfr / pug raids are toxic and anti-social, but we have democracy and the vote of majority is where the money goes. I enjoy guilded raiding but if someone points out it's on decline I can't really disagree, and the game changes as its playerbase does.

Thing is they already force PL in pugs, so even with all this, there was no reason they needed to strip more from guilds, its just poor planning, stupidity or worse, intentional

[asil]

It is BIS for affliction both single and multi target.

http://lockonestopshop.com/#!/Affliction/Sims/Trinket

It's pretty questionable you seem to think generic trinket sims like this are valid for the most part. I've run my own sims, and an ilevel 1000 norgannon's is .1% worse than an aman'thul.

And like I said - most people in my guild have found the same exact thing. Generic sims like this are guidelines, they aren't absolute fact.


I suspect aman'thuls will be clear BIS multi target, but an ilevel 1000 norgannon is close enough to an aman'thul single target to where they're both fine.

[Deleted]

It's pretty questionable you seem to think generic trinket sims like this are valid for the most part. I've run my own sims, and an ilevel 1000 norgannon's is .1% worse than an aman'thul.

And like I said - most people in my guild have found the same exact thing. Generic sims like this are guidelines, they aren't absolute fact.


I suspect aman'thuls will be clear BIS multi target, but an ilevel 1000 norgannon is close enough to an aman'thul single target to where they're both fine.

If your getting the 2 trinkets within 2-3k dps of each other your running some strange sims, I get the gap at 30k ish on patchwerk and it only gets wider if you run add based sims which is a lot more realistic representation of affliction.

[Valette]

And like I said - most people in my guild have found the same exact thing. Generic sims like this are guidelines, they aren't absolute fact.

For shadow priest. Aman'thul without EVER getting the bonus proc is slightly stronger than an ilevel 1000 norgannon where 25 people in the raid is wearing aman'thul (so practically the best proc rate). So yes, to anyone wondering; for some specs aman'thul is just THAT strong.

Imagine how much stronger aman'thul is once you're in a raid when you actually get the bonus proc

Edit. This is for a simulation designed for an overall antorus throughput. For pure single target aman'thul is even stronger ^-^
Edit #2: Dont take my word for it:
> https://howtopriest.com/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=9567

[brbshower]

I'll say this, I've killed him every week since release. 82 total raid members. He's dropped 4 trinkets in that time in total. Lower than low drop rate :/

[Ham on Rye]

Heard some people mention they reckon you can only get aman'thul if you have any of the other ones. Anyone know of any data to dispute this?

Should be pretty easy to tell - how many got Amanthuls the first week? because they wouldn't have had any other ones. And of the ones that got it week 2, did they get one other one week 1?

[Cracked]

are we sure that blizzard isn't trolling and that you can only get the legendary on the first kill of the week? all of the amanthul drops occurred on first kills of the week?

[Emerald Archer]

List isn't even complete, my characters aren't in it, and a few guildies of mine aren't either, take this with a bucket of salt.

It's not meant to have all characters, the guy explained it earlier. It has a large enough pool of players for it to be a valid estimate. It doesn't need every single player.

[PrivateDonut]

Only 17% drop rate(ideally), I'm glad I got it this week. Because I know RNG hasn't been in my favor.

[Eazy]

Epic version is still better for me, so I'm fine.

[Deleted]

Only 17% drop rate(ideally), I'm glad I got it this week. Because I know RNG hasn't been in my favor.

Obviously it has been in your favor. I have 4 chars, 11 argus kills with a chance to get pantheon - and got exactly 0.

My main is of course the only important one, but having 7 itemupgrades across 4 chars and zero trinkets to use them...

And if the drop chance stays at 17%, there's a 15.5% chance to have no trinket by end of february... when sme guys will have all 12 item upgrades and 85% of the raid will have ilvl 1000 trinkets...

[PrivateDonut]

Obviously it has been in your favor. I have 4 chars, 11 argus kills with a chance to get pantheon - and got exactly 0.

My main is of course the only important one, but having 7 itemupgrades across 4 chars and zero trinkets to use them...

Yeah, I was pretty happy when I got it. Considering RNG hasn't been in my favor this tier.. I was the second person in my guild to get it.

[keyone01]

Thank you for doing this, i hope that (just like last time with legendary BLP thread) shitstorm over this statistics will force blizzard to change this stupid 0,25% chance for Amanthul.

[Bullarkie]

We've had two legendary trinkets drop so far.

[Deleted]

I went and ran sims for an spriest in my guild. An ilevel 1000 norgannon's with 9 other trinkets in the raid was a 4.3% increase.

An aman'thul's with 9 other trinkets in the raid was 5.7%. So yes, aman was clearly better, but not to such an extreme extent, which was my argument.

When I sim my own warlock, aman is an 8.4% upgrade with 9 other trinkets, norgannon's is 8.3% with 9 other trinkets.

My point isn't that aman isn't BIS - it is, but it is not BIS by such an extreme margin to where it would make or break anything, it's fairly close to the epic trinket.

People are undervaluing trinkets because one has orange text and the other doesn't. I had this same argument with this very same spriest that seemed to want an exemption to putting his panth trinket on (we require it) based on the idea the trinket was just too bad for spriests.

Even though it was fairly close in sims to his acrid.

Dont forget the extra 1,4k versatility and proc for extra secondaries like avoidance. Completly worthless in heroic but can prevent quite alot of dmg in mythic with all the extreme raid dmg going out at some bosses. Something people fail to take into consideration is that the legendary helps everyone else in the raid more with their procs than just having the normal pantheon trinket.

So even if dmg is the same or withing a % or so you get extra survivability and raid wide output increase that should make up for it unless you are a complete dps whore who doesnt care about overall performance of the raid and only yourself. On top of it being ilvl 1000 and all other trinkets are below 960. Them simming the same at ivl 1000 is irrelevant for months yet anyway.