Why do Vereesa and Alleria hate their own people?

[Mehrunes]

There is a lot about the whole Eversong Woods/Ghostlands alliance part that does not make sense. Most of all why a supposed ambassador of Ironforge is not in Silvermoon proper but at some random arcane sanctum. Or why he would add notes in Dwarven on incriminating documents that he gave to the Elves. But no, there is either one Alliance team that both the Dwarf and the Elves belong to, or the sentinels stole the Dwarf's plans - which would call his murder into question.

Containing him to Silvermoon would be seen as a hostile action on behalf of the Blood Elves. Also, the purpose of the alliance was Blood Elves needing assistance. It's natural potential allies would check out how dire the situation is and how much assistance is needed.

Anyway, I did not call Magni super wise or anything, I just said that he would not needlessly agitate a supposedly neutral/possibly allied race for no reason, due to Blizz writing him as a good king stereotype. Yeah, he has subordinates not sharing his stance, but my point was that he would not have sent a saboteur to randomly mess with stuff. There's a thing called nuance.

Again, he randomly sent Dwarves to another continent to mess with stuff, even though there were plenty more potential digsites in EK (and even in Kalimdor there were areas they could dig at that didn't belong to the Horde). There's not a lot to support him being against randomly messing with stuff. Especially when the stuff was already aided by the Forsaken (that were in conflict with Dwarves of Dun Garok) and was in talks with the Horde that he was explicitly not against messing with. Which kinda is a reason already.

The Alliance of Lordaeron that it was a continuation of was wiped out with him. The Grand Alliance has incorporated some of the former members, but is not the same entity.

Why would it be wiped out with him? Just as he assumed command because he was the highest ranked surviving officer, someone else would assume command after him. Stormwind just assumed political control afterwards because they were the strongest remaining party.

Garrosh murdered high ranking blood elf military due to them dissenting. He also arguably planned the same thing to the Grand Magister, but the latter just refused the summons. He did utilize a Sunreaver to steal the divine Bell, which in turn sabotaged Rommath's peace talks. Sticking to Garrosh for a moment, the Orcs only moved against Garrosh after he went too far with regards to his own people. They did not when he Manabombed cities, had schools slaughtered or outright tortured the elements into twisted monstrosities. Or when they were about to enslave Pandaren they came across. Those are things that Vereesa and by extension Alleria knows about. They rejected him after he hurt them, but not when he hurt others.

What high ranking Blood Elves dissented? What high ranking Blood Elves were killed by Garrosh? And just like Vereesa and Alleria may not know certain things, there's no indication anyone among Blood Elves realized Garrosh knew of their peace talks with Alliance and used the Sunreavers to steal the Bell specifically to fuck those talks up. Without that knowledge the theft of the Bell is simply a military operation Garrosh had the right to undertake as a Warchief of the Horde.

Theramore was a justified target of war and the alternative was putting everyone in it to the sword, the person who bombed a Druid school was executed by Garrosh himself, Earthen Ring including the former Warchief was explicitly against the abuse of elementals (and given how it's cross-faction organization the Alliance members knew that) and the only enslavement of Pandaren came from individuals corrupted by the Sha and happened on the Alliance side as well.

As for the Forsaken, fighting fire with fire does not justify using fire against wood. They experimented on humans and used their pseudo scourge on Human towns, who clearly have not used bio-magical warfare against them.

The Blight was created with Scourge in mind. But just because Scourge was dealt with doesn't mean the Forsaken should drop a potent weapon (that isn't prohibited by anything on Azeroth). If the Alliance have a problem with being a target of the Blight they can not start a world war against the Horde. Given the aggressor in Silithus quests, they seem to be OK with being the target of Forsaken though.

Which is not to say though that Alleria is not seeking out information. She wants to talk to Sylvanas directly about all of this before forming her opinion, so I am not sure where you are getting the notion that she does not want that. Yeah, the whole 'lead the Horde' thing does not compute to her, due to the above. We do not know whether or not she talks to Lor'themar, and she certainly does not instantly blabber about Anduin. Just because we are not explicitly shown something does not mean it did not happen or will not happen. The reunion of the Windrunners is still an upcoming event.

She starts blabbering about Anduin immediately after greetings with Lor'themar. So unless there's a hidden time skip in that questline, yes, she does. And while she did mention wanting to meet Sylvanas in one of the datamined files, she mentions "HOW CAN SHE LEAD THE HORDE?!?!?!" three times as often. She also seems to have preconceived notions about Sylvanas already and wasn't particularly friendly towards her when she mentioned her to Lor'themar.

[Verdugo]

because people who think with their dicks dont admit it?
you really think people are going to say
"Sylvanas is a kind charecter, she is a good person and the best warcheif"
or
"SYLVANAS IS HOTT I WANT HER TO STAY SO I CAN HAVE CHANCE TO FUCK HER IN MY DREAMS AND I LOVE TO MASTERBATE TO HER!!!"

So this entire argument is based on you projecting something on people with different opinions so that you can discredit them in your mind.

Glad we made that clear.

Or I can just say that you are fanboying after Jainas huge knockers.

[FelPlague]

So this entire argument is based on you projecting something on people with different opinions so that you can discredit them in your mind.

Glad we made that clear.

Or I can just say that you are fanboying after Jainas huge knockers.

lol no, i am not interested in jaina at all. But whatever, you have your opinion, i have mine. But you seem to have a hate for all alliance.

[Doffen]

Or I can just say that you are fanboying after Jainas huge knockers.

I am. Is that wrong?

[Mehrunes]

Except the fact that she was absent better explains it. She wasn't around to see her people suffering and why Lorthemar and the Blood Elves made the choice they did at the time.

Except the the split happened because dissenters reacted to the choice Lor'themar's people did. This goes both ways. She wasn't around for their overreaction for her to associate with it either.

She fought against fel, not void. She only knew it was bad because Xe'ra told her so. Even then she didn't always put all her stock on what Xe'ra says. Void was never Alleria's enemy, it never ravaged her homeland and threw Azeroth into a war. Fel was the enemy for over a thousand years. From the Second War to the invasion of Argus. It's not hard to see why she'd feel alienated by her people drinking the cool aid.

She still fights against the Shadowguard. And she herself triggers a Void incursion that could ravage her homeland had it succeeded in corrupting the Sunwell. And other than Kael's most fanatical followers Blood Elves didn't drink Fel.

He wasn't darkened when he first arrived at Quel'Thalas. He only turned into his void form after the Blood Elves relentlessly drained him and Kael abducted him again. Comparing what happened to him and L'ura isn't really fair.

Seemed plenty purple from the get go. When left to their own devices the natural progress of the darkening state is rather long from what the Naaru of Auchindoun said. Either way, Alleria isn't some great fan of the Naaru given how she was imprisoned by Xe'ra for 500 years and gave zero shits when she was killed.

The Blood Elves still have green eyes since I last checked. And while those days are mostly behind them, it's still hard for Alleria to come back and hear the extremes they went too. And while for the orcs, that part of them is just history now - for the Blood Elves it's still fairly fresh.

And even newborn Orcs are still green. They aren't exactly drinking Fel from their mothers' boobs. Blood Elves were exposed to Fel. Most likely when Rommath used it to rebuild half the city overnight. But most Blood Elves knew nothing about as explicitly stated by Blizzard. When Lor'themar went to Quel'lithien the High Elves there said nothing about Fel, only draining mana from vermin.

Again, Blizzard purposely made a dichotomy between the High Elves and Blood Elves when the culture split. And it is totally understandable why Alleria picked the side she did. It doesn't mean it's the right side.

The only thing she has in common with modern High Elves is the allegiance with the Alliance. And yet out of all Alliance-aligned High Elves, it's those that followed Alleria in her quest for vengeance against Orcs into Draenor that answered Lor'themar's reunification offer and were willing to talk (at least confirmed ones, there could be individuals from other groups among the nameless NPCs). A year after he joined the Horde.

[Captain Kennedy]

Actually no she did not, Alleria started dabbling in the void for the exact sasme reassons it was the path she believed was necessary to protect her loved ones and her home, it is exactly the same reason the blood elves embraced Rommath's teachings. The high elf on the other hand weren't willing to drain mana from vermin, even it meant the destruction of their own kingdom, they put their integrity above their own well being and the well being of their people as a whole.

Using void magic is breaking the high elf integrity due to its very nature of being an incredibly dangerous form of magic, even darker than fel magic itself. Those who deal with the void in the manner Alleria and the void elves do is a dance with insanity and they are mistrusted by the Alliance as a result.

One could even say the path she is currently on is a stark reminder of the early stages of Kael'thas Sunstrider.

What is it with Blood Elf fanboys and white washing what Blood Elves did. What happened had serious moral implications. But what makes characters like Lorthemar interesting is he made horrible decisions for the right reasons. And ultimately assured the survival of most of the remaining population. But you need to accept that the Blood Elves got to be where they are now due those evils. Even if they were brief.

The High Elf integrity was about not sacrificing that moral code. That is where the culture split. And whilst the High Elf decision was the morally better one, the Thalassian population would be a hell of a lot less now if Quel'Thalas went down that route. That's what makes the dichotomy interesting. Alleria has not broken that moral code.

[Verdugo]

lol no, i am not interested in jaina at all. But whatever, you have your opinion, i have mine. But you seem to have a hate for all alliance.

Well your opinion is based on wrong information, mine is not.

What is it with Blood Elf fanboys and white washing what Blood Elves did. What happened had serious moral implications. But what makes characters like Lorthemar interesting is he made horrible decisions for the right reasons. And ultimately assured the survival of most of the remaining population. But you need to accept that the Blood Elves got to be where they are now due those evils. Even if they were brief.

The High Elf integrity was about not sacrificing that moral code. That is where the culture split. And whilst the High Elf decision was the morally better one, the Thalassian population would be a hell of a lot less now if Quel'Thalas went down that route. That's what makes the dichotomy interesting. Alleria has not broken that moral code.

I dont think you know anything about anything, let me make a summary.

Draining vermin is evil.
Draining corrupting energy is good.




AAAARF.

[Arrashi]

because people who think with their dicks dont admit it?
you really think people are going to say
"Sylvanas is a kind charecter, she is a good person and the best warcheif"
or
"SYLVANAS IS HOTT I WANT HER TO STAY SO I CAN HAVE CHANCE TO FUCK HER IN MY DREAMS AND I LOVE TO MASTERBATE TO HER!!!"

Man....everytime i think those forums were idiocy-capped someone still menages to prove me wrong.

[alt-ithist]

No, varessa has absolutely no reason to hate blood elves (other than fact that she is traitor), and entire high elf "high ground" over blood elves makes just as much anti-vaccers policies. Poor innocent mana wyrms. Its so inhumane to feed from there. Btw, one more steak for me please.

Arthas was a human prince, who was raised (poorly) by humans, tutored (poorly) by humans, and not contained by humans. Than as human decided to commit genocide of as many elves as possible because they pissed him off.

The key diffrence betwen garithos and garrosh is that garrosh was opposed by vast majority of horde, who stood arm to arm with blood elves against him. Garithos was opposed by...oh right. Noone. Elves were left to themselves. And saved by neutral party.
Oh and then garithos was killed by...guess who ? Sylvanas ! So thats one more point for red team.

Oh and actually orcs did fought their corrupted counter parts, there is even W3 mission about it. On top of that unlike alliance who send you know, spies, saboteurs and murderers, orcs, trolls and forsaken send this weird thing called "diplomats" (you can even see them in silvermoon !) and forsaken even send reinforcements to ghostlands to help them deal with scourge remnants and number one traitor (who isnt windrunner sister).

When Arthas attacked Silvermoon he was “prince” in figuritive term only as he had just murdered the king of lorderon and butchered the population. Pretty sure the remainder of lorderon population no longer saw him as their sovereign. Something blood elves are all too familiar with ie: Kael’thas. If Arthas was still a prince at this point it’s prince of the scourge. Also Arthas was an undead deathknight commanding an undead army, he wasn’t human.

[tristannarutofan]

there is no reason to think that either of them hate their people.

Both of them hate the horde for good reason (the deaths of their people, home, them being led by fascists, attacking dalaran, killing Valeera's husband) . I'm sure both would be more than happy to rescue the blood elves from the horde.

the only animosity you've really seen is with the sunreavers who were blood traitors that helped murder Vareesa's husband

you ...do remember the whole...Vareesa's husband being murdered by the horde thing...and Alleria having a breakdown because her home and most of her family was destroyed by the horde...and her going through the dark portal to stop members of the horde...

right?

[Verdugo]

there is no reason to think that either of them hate their people.

Both of them hate the horde for good reason (the deaths of their people, home, them being led by fascists, attacking dalaran, killing Valeera's husband) . I'm sure both would be more than happy to rescue the blood elves from the horde.

the only animosity you've really seen is with the sunreavers who were blood traitors that helped murder Vareesa's husband

you ...do remember the whole...Vareesa's husband being murdered by the horde thing...and Alleria having a breakdown because her home and most of her family was destroyed by the horde...and her going through the dark portal to stop members of the horde...

right?

I also remember when that same horde was the only thing helping them after slaughter that makes second war pale in comparison.

[Mehrunes]

because people who think with their dicks dont admit it?
you really think people are going to say
"Sylvanas is a kind charecter, she is a good person and the best warcheif"
or
"SYLVANAS IS HOTT I WANT HER TO STAY SO I CAN HAVE CHANCE TO FUCK HER IN MY DREAMS AND I LOVE TO MASTERBATE TO HER!!!"

Even if there were people that were fans of her only because of her tits (and as has already been said, as far as this forum goes the only people to ever bring such shit up are those who constantly behave as if Sylvanas personally molested them when they were six, once they run out of arguments that are remotely tangible), why would they need Sylvanas to stay to imagine things about her? Does her potential removal from the Warchief position block people's fantasies? Does it also remove all the artwork about her already available on the net? Your projection is devoid even of internal logic.

[Verdugo]

Even if there were people that were fans of her only because of her tits (and as has already been said, as far as this forum goes the only people to ever bring such shit up are those who constantly behave as if Sylvanas personally molested them when they were six, once they run out of arguments that are remotely tangible), why would they need Sylvanas to stay to imagine things about her? Does her potential removal from the Warchief position block people's fantasies? Does it also remove all the artwork about her already available on the net? Your projection is devoid even of internal logic.

Maybe those people have a power fetish?

[Deleted]

lol no, i am not interested in jaina at all. But whatever, you have your opinion, i have mine. But you seem to have a hate for all alliance.

Friendlyimmolation, Verdugo, Arrashi, Mehrunes, Aquamonkey, Zulkhan, Obelisk Kai and even - supposed to be - Alliance players like Tauror, Graden and Combatbulter have formed here in this site the most huge hardcore Horde defending team I have ever seen in my life. No one has ever been able to win their arguments and they all pop up like cockroaches in every anti Horde thread/post and win as one. Unfortunately this site doesn't have many Alliance supporters so they literally win any argument even if they are wrong.

Infracted.

[Verdugo]

Friendlyimmolation, Verdugo, Arrashi, Mehrunes, Aquamonkey, Zulkhan, Obelisk Kai and even - supposed to be - Alliance players like Tauror, Graden and Combatbulter have formed here in this site the most huge hardcore Horde defending team I have ever seen in my life. No one has ever been able to win their arguments and they all pop up like cockroaches in every anti Horde thread/post and win as one. Unfortunately this site doesn't have many Alliance supporters so they literally win any argument even if they are wrong.

I dont like horde, I want forsaken to leave it and Sylvanas replaced with a much more ruthless leadership.

But nice projection. In our country we have word for people like you: Idiot.

It roughly translates in english to Idiot.

[Mehrunes]

What is it with Blood Elf fanboys and white washing what Blood Elves did. What happened had serious moral implications. But what makes characters like Lorthemar interesting is he made horrible decisions for the right reasons. And ultimately assured the survival of most of the remaining population. But you need to accept that the Blood Elves got to be where they are now due those evils. Even if they were brief.

Draining mana from animals they were already killing for food, fur etc. isn't exactly the great evil you paint it to be, isn't particularly horrible especially given the situation and has no serious moral implication.

The High Elf integrity was about not sacrificing that moral code. That is where the culture split. And whilst the High Elf decision was the morally better one, the Thalassian population would be a hell of a lot less now if Quel'Thalas went down that route. That's what makes the dichotomy interesting. Alleria has not broken that moral code.

You just repeated what Combat said in the part you bolded. So is it to be assumed that you're a Blood Elf fanboy that white washes what Blood Elves did? And Alleria chose to dabble in the worst form of magic out there for the same reason as Blood Elves used to drain mana from animals.

[Mehrunes]

Friendlyimmolation, Verdugo, Arrashi, Mehrunes, Aquamonkey, Zulkhan, Obelisk Kai and even - supposed to be - Alliance players like Tauror, Graden and Combatbulter have formed here in this site the most huge hardcore Horde defending team I have ever seen in my life. No one has ever been able to win their arguments and they all pop up like cockroaches in every anti Horde thread/post and win as one. Unfortunately this site doesn't have many Alliance supporters so they literally win any argument even if they are wrong.

Instead of complaining like a child try to substantiate your shit-flinging with some examples. And let's see. You, The Iron Fist, Magnagarde, Tripzzz, Highwhale, KrazyK, Nemmar, Pateuvasiliu, ravenmoon, Mace. Already an equal amount of Alliance posters and it's just from the top of my head. So would you look at that, the core of your argument is bogus. So is the claim that each of us pops up in each anti-Horde thread (speaking of which, the very nature of those threads kinda indicates Alliance players).

You guys have only yourself to blame that you are so deep into your fanfiction fantasies that you even argue against directly quoted sources. Using Aquamonkey, who can support pretty much anything they say with sources and often does that even when not asked (or even when it's a topic so obvious it's not even necessary), as an example of a poster that offends your feeble sensibilities is the prime example of that. And when even Alliance players like @Graden say that you're wrong, maybe try to entertain the possibility that you are rather than bitching about them as well.

[FelPlague]

Well your opinion is based on wrong information, mine is not.



I dont think you know anything about anything, let me make a summary.

Draining vermin is evil.
Draining corrupting energy is good.




AAAARF.

mine is based on wrong information?
so you think NOT A SINGLE HORDE MEMBER ON THIS FORUM
only likes sylvanas cause shes hot.
but they wont admit it because they rather not tell the internet they want to fuck pixels


give this man a medal, Emmy, Oscar, Nobel peace prize, something.

[Alteiry]

I am. Is that wrong?

Damn, soon she's gonna be as thicc as her dreadlord skin.

[Verdugo]

so you think NOT A SINGLE HORDE MEMBER ON THIS FORUM
only likes sylvanas cause shes hot.

And that somehow makes every forsaken fan slober after dead tits.