Why do Vereesa and Alleria hate their own people?

[Combatbutler]

Because Kael'thas Sunstrider and Lorth'remar made some really stupid and desperate (respectively) decisions to save their people from becoming mana addicted miscreants.

They hate their own people because their 'people' died with the Sunwell.

Alleria calls the blood elves still her people even after she is exiled.

[RobertMugabe]

What's the point of this thread? We all know that Blood Elves are just a part of the Horde due to marketing reasons... and the same answer applies to many other things in this game.

[Magnagarde]

Its actually like being anti-vaccine and then going to streets and spewing your bullshit publicly. And its definately not something to be applauded.

It is pretty much incomparable to the anti-vaccers.

There were other ways of sustaining themselves, like the elves of the present-day Silver Covenant did. Their ignorant distrust for all humans because of one warlord lead them to having to chose this fate, but these characters could've been written to at least have the dignity to let other high elves pick their path within a kingdom that was theirs as much as it was of the blood elves'.

- - - Updated - - -

Again, anyone who has bothered to read the books she is in knows how truly awful of a character she is. As shitty as half elves are, they weren’t the straw that broke the camels back, her character changed for the worse every book, you couldn’t even justify it as character growth the levels of stupidity she radiates. I’m talking about “how dare you diacrage the name blood elf” in one book and then hating them the next etc or near her introduction where she follows Rhonin like a puppy. Or recently where she forgot she had kids. She’s awfully written, even for a WoW character.

Hating in the next one after a lot of high elves and her husband got bombed into oblivion due to a blood elf's treachery?

[Friendlyimmolation]

Hating in the next one after a lot of high elves and her husband got bombed into oblivion due to a blood elf's treachery?

No, not at all. You will have to actually read his Rhonin books (as much as they will hurt you)

She despised them, called them weak while hiding behind dalaran with her every need taken care of.

This was way before Rhonin was wiped off the face of the lore.


Edit: she also goes “how dare you insult blood elves11!!1” multiple times, it like knaak was flipping a coin whenever he had her talk.

[Arrashi]

It is pretty much incomparable to the anti-vaccers.

There were other ways of sustaining themselves, like the elves of the present-day Silver Covenant did. Their ignorant distrust for all humans because of one warlord lead them to having to chose this fate, but these characters could've been written to at least have the dignity to let other high elves pick their path within a kingdom that was theirs as much as it was of the blood elves'.

Actually its very comparable because in both cases they are making storm in a glass of water and in both cases they are wrong.
Their ignorant distrust origins from human prince who was human problem humans failed to contain commiting genocide of their homeland, followed by warlord representing alliance trying to do repeat of it, with next to no opposition from humans.
And after dust settled, alliance sends spies and saboteurs.
I wouldnt call that ignorant.

Oh and for your "other ways of sustaining themselves", being on mercy of humans and feeding on artifacts, something that was completely unsustainable for large population of a goddamn country isnt really a solution.

[Kiri]

Again, anyone who has bothered to read the books she is in knows how truly awful of a character she is. As shitty as half elves are, they weren’t the straw that broke the camels back, her character changed for the worse every book, you couldn’t even justify it as character growth the levels of stupidity she radiates. I’m talking about “how dare you diacrage the name blood elf” in one book and then hating them the next etc or near her introduction where she follows Rhonin like a puppy. Or recently where she forgot she had kids. She’s awfully written, even for a WoW character.

Where did she forget about her children? I am pretty sure you are speaking of War Crimes, but in that novel she did not forget about them. While she did entertain the though of defecting in order to be with her sister again, she always assumed that she could take them with her (alive) and ultimately decided that it would not be good for them, in turn rejecting Sylvanas' offer. I mean yeah, she still is not exactly a superbly written character, but that goes for most lore characters. But for what it is worth, she had a definite arc in that book. Starting out consumed by hatred, finding something that she could bond over with her last remaining family outside of her children. Of course she got swept away by both of these things, but that is one of the major themes of the book. Her making that decision as she did, for her children, was a stronger statement than, say, her finding out about Syl's extended plans.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Where did she forget about her children? I am pretty sure you are speaking of War Crimes, but in that novel she did not forget about them. While she did entertain the though of defecting in order to be with her sister again, she always assumed that she could take them with her (alive) and ultimately decided that it would not be good for them, in turn rejecting Sylvanas' offer. I mean yeah, she still is not exactly a superbly written character, but that goes for most lore characters. But for what it is worth, she had a definite arc in that book. Starting out consumed by hatred, finding something that she could bond over with her last remaining family outside of her children. Of course she got swept away by both of these things, but that is one of the major themes of the book. Her making that decision as she did, for her children, was a stronger statement than, say, her finding out about Syl's extended plans.

In the final part of the book, I’m fairly certain she is reminded of her kids when Sylvanas states something along the lines of “UC isn’t the place for children”

She wouldn’t be such a train wreck of a character if she was only in the game, unfortunately for everyone she was a book character first, and seemingly partially reimagined rather than grown every book.

[GreenJesus]

Alleria is an idiot that has no idea what the Blood Elves went through. She chose to side with the Human Boy King before even returning to her homeland first. She is a traitor and should be glad that she isn't executed on the spot. How dare she just decide to represent the human king who is an enemy in front of the leader of her own people. Then she has the balls to nearly destroy the Sunwell and then she blame the Blood Elves for kicking her out because of what she caused. Fuck Blizzard and fuck their writing.

[united]

Alleria is an idiot that has no idea what the Blood Elves went through. She chose to side with the Human Boy King before even returning to her homeland first. She is a traitor and should be glad that she isn't executed on the spot. How dare she just decide to represent the human king who is an enemy in front of the leader of her own people. Then she has the balls to nearly destroy the Sunwell and then she blame the Blood Elves for kicking her out because of what she caused. Fuck Blizzard and fuck their writing.

i still love that lor'themar referred to anduin as the boy king. i hope thats what all the horde leaders start doing

[Vynestra]

i still love that lor'themar referred to anduin as the boy king. i hope thats what all the horde leaders start doing

And when the boy king wins in undercity.....that sounds pitiful, a boy king beat the horde where the warchief originates.

[cparle87]

doesn't help that the Orcs were stupid enough to name their new and honourable alliance after the undoubtedly evil bloodthirsty group who preceded them. that would be comparable to a modern German government who are committed to embracing diversity and pursuing peace naming themselves after the nazi party. though I think we can lay the blame for that one more on the blizzard writers than on characters since they just wanted to retain the "alliance vs horde" faction war even if it was clearly not the same faction and the naming could only ever cause confusion over that issue

When orcs unite they always call themselves the Horde and their leader is the Warchief. That's why Gul'dan used those names. Because they had tradition from the last time the orcs united. We were told all about it in Chronicles v.2.

[Siraeyou]

“But orcs and trolls killed their family!!!”

That’s true. Orcs killed their mom and their brother, but a human destroyed their entire home, and killed their sister.

The truth is if Sylvanas survived the Scourge attack she would be a blood elf. She wasn’t off running with humans when Arthas showed up, she was defending her home like every other blood elf today. So then why don’t Vereesa and Alleria get over their petty grudges and join the Horde? Since they’ve both banged humans they surely know that not all humans are bad, just like how not all orcs and trolls are bad.

I mean Sylvanas and Nathanos were heavily hinted at having a more than 'simply professional' relationship in the Nathanos short story so Sylvanas could have just as easily gone down the same path as the others if she didn't have her unfortunate encounter with the Scourge. There is a lot of head canon involved in this if people want to reach for assumptions or statements.

[Terongor]

Because Kael'thas Sunstrider and Lorth'remar made some really stupid and desperate (respectively) decisions to save their people from becoming mana addicted miscreants.

They hate their own people because their 'people' died with the Sunwell.

Well even before that decision that Kael and Lor'themar made, Vereesa was okay with Garithos executing(trying) Kael and huge number of their people. She just hangged out in Dalaran watching when huge number of elves and their prince where taken and didn't do a shit. Vereesa became a traitor then for leaving her countries monarch to his fate. She owed her loyalty to sunstrider line and she betrayed them. Exile was a too god fate for her.

[Mehrunes]

Vereesa started hating Blood Elves only after Zendarin kidnapped her halfbreeds. Even though she told him he's not worthy to call himself a Blood Elf in the first place. So Vereesa is retarded. Apparently it's contagious.

[Kiri]

In the final part of the book, I’m fairly certain she is reminded of her kids when Sylvanas states something along the lines of “UC isn’t the place for children”

She wouldn’t be such a train wreck of a character if she was only in the game, unfortunately for everyone she was a book character first, and seemingly partially reimagined rather than grown every book.

Actually, it is the other way around. To quote:
-"I am not worried about myself," Vereesa continued. "I am concerned for the boys. It will be...very strange to them."
Sylvanas was taken completely by surprise at that statement.....(skipping half a paragraph) "....The Undercity....is really no place for children, sister." Vereesa looked away. Sylvanas watched her like a hawk, cursing herself that she had not appreciated that Vereesa was not just a widow, but the sole parent to two children. This was the first time Vereesa had mentioned them since the sisters had begun their secret meetings. It was as if, with their father's death, Vereesa could not think of anything other than revenge.

As such, the whole forgetting about the children is pretty much Sylvanas' perception, who had apparently chosen to ignore those two herself. Vereesa herself was the one that brought them up and while she certainly did not spend as much time with them as she should or could - which she acknowledges later - she did not entirely forget about them. No one among the alliance leaders or in Dalaran specifically calls her out on working instead of mothering, either, not even Anduin.
While, of course, there is no verbatim statement regarding this, the most likely explanation here is that Vereesa, when being offered by Sylvanas to live with her, just assumed that this would include her children. I mean, that is how it would go in real life too, wouldn't it? One sister offering the other to live with her, knowing that the latter has two children, seldom means 'Only you, not your kids. You have to leave those behind'.

I do agree with the criticism regarding the Knaak books though. That guy had a penchant to do that to pretty much any character than his lovechild Rhonin, which hit Vereesa exceptionally hard since she had to play the love interest, family goal, motivator and damsel. Golden does a better job of it, in my opinion.

[Garfurion]

Oh and for your "other ways of sustaining themselves", being on mercy of humans and feeding on artifacts, something that was completely unsustainable for large population of a goddamn country isnt really a solution.

There was no large population left. There could have been as few as 11,330 Blood Elves left in Quel'thalas after Kael'thas left for Outland.

[Arrashi]

There was no large population left. There could have been as few as 11,330 Blood Elves left in Quel'thalas after Kael'thas left for Outland.

Those numbers are as canon as all the shitfictions that are being spewed around those forums.

And even 11,330 with massive addiction would prove to be quite a logistical problem.

[VyersReaver]

All orcs are bad.

Trolls are cool but most of them are isolationist, the Darkspear are the only social ones, and they live too close to Orgrimmar to disassociate with the Orcs, so they join their faction and appease them: because they aren't strong enough to control or kill the Orcs near their homes.

I don't think you should be a mod. Your opinion might disrupt you from judging and banning posters justly.

[MyWholeLifeIsThunder]

Alleria doesn't. She wants them to change sides, and Vereesa might be okay with this.

Is the issue of disagreeing with your nation's political decisions so foreign to people that get so worked up about this? This is a thing that happens. High Elves exist because of this, Void Elves now exist because of this. Like it's not a hard concept to grasp people. My question is why isn't the alliance actually taking advantage of this.

Show of hands, how many are american here? Do you all know of the history of American interventionism through the CIA to destabilize foreign governments? All done with the intention to create allied powers. The Thalassian exiles are basically a rebellious group waiting to happen, and the alliance should be taking this opportunity to de-stabilize the blood elves government, playing on the fears of those less loyals to the horde saying they have to go alliance because the horde can't protect them now. Ethically reprochable to some, so it wouldn't fly for many an alliance fanboy.

But TBH, it's mindbogling how people don't seem to understand that political dissent exists, and that it should be markedly present for a people that has already changed its alliances on the past. You might disagree 100% with Vereesa and Alleria, but you can't say that any individual is obligated to follow their governments decisions, as they do not represent the will of all of their people, specially when you shift alliances away and against a group you were allied with previously.

Vereesa started hating Blood Elves only after Zendarin kidnapped her halfbreeds. Even though she told him he's not worthy to call himself a Blood Elf in the first place. So Vereesa is retarded. Apparently it's contagious.

And now, this is a prime example of how not to try to engage flawed text at face value. WoW lore itself is not the best, even shittily written at points. But if you are going to even have a discussion about it, you have to act on good faith and try to contextualize the voids of quality on the larger picture.

Calling Vereesa contagiously retarded just shows you are not willing to engage the lore flawed as it is, and that's okay, but at one point you have to admit that then you are not bringing anything to a lore discussion if your complaints are about the shitty quality of the writing, specially on a supplementary source.

[Deleted]

Alleria doesn't. She wants them to change sides, and Vereesa might be okay with this.

Is the issue of disagreeing with your nation's political decisions so foreign to people that get so worked up about this? This is a thing that happens. High Elves exist because of this, Void Elves now exist because of this. Like it's not a hard concept to grasp people. My question is why isn't the alliance actually taking advantage of this.

Show of hands, how many are american here? Do you all know of the history of American interventionism through the CIA to destabilize foreign governments? All done with the intention to create allied powers. The Thalassian exiles are basically a rebellious group waiting to happen, and the alliance should be taking this opportunity to de-stabilize the blood elves government, playing on the fears of those less loyals to the horde saying they have to go alliance because the horde can't protect them now. Ethically reprochable to some, so it wouldn't fly for many an alliance fanboy.

But TBH, it's mindbogling how people don't seem to understand that political dissent exists, and that it should be markedly present for a people that has already changed its alliances on the past. You might disagree 100% with Vereesa and Alleria, but you can't say that any individual is obligated to follow their governments decisions, as they do not represent the will of all of their people, specially when you shift alliances away and against a group you were allied with previously.

It's not the question of political dissendents, Alleria and Vereesa can perfectly dissagree with the foreign policies of Quel'thalas. The problem here is Alleria doesn't care about the opinions of her own people.

She broke originally with Quel'thalas because King Anasterian refused to joined with the Alliance and the orcs were invading Quel'thalas. Then she went with the expedition because she knew it was the best way to stop the orcs once and for all, securing the safety of her people. But now? The Void magic ripped-off her nationalistic side and was filed with Vereesa's lapdog syndrome?