"go play retail then" is getting old

[Akka]

Okay so the fact that blizzard has adressed the issues of leveling as tank/healer several times doesn't mean anything? It couldn't possibly be that you made a horrible mistake and took way longer to level than you had to?

It was obviously easier to level up as a DPS. It doesn't mean it was "impossible" or "very hard" to do so as healer/tank. Mainly it was very slow for holy paladin and resto druids (maybe shamans too, never played a healing shaman). Typically, healers and tanks traded speed for survivability.

There is also the massive "echo chamber" effect, when people just jump on the bandwagon of what they hear repeated around, and make the opinion their own (that's one of the reason hoaxes exist, and why I'm pretty wary of "everyone says that..."). Things like "there was not enough quest to reach 60 in Vanilla", or "only acceptable spec is the best one" when there is alternative spec which are only about 1 to 3 % behind, or "holy priest is horrible to level". They are false, but are hold as true because they were heard so often.

There were two reasons I leveled up my holy priestess :

1) To have fun with the FSR (and that's why I stopped playing her after Cata made the whole dance irrelevant).
2) To check reality vs what people in my guild were saying.

Fact was, one guy in my guild who was actually playing a holy priest was saying "nah, it's actually pretty easy", and many who were not were repeating "it's a nightmare !!!".
Went to see for myself. It felt pretty slow, but on the other hand I never needed to stop and I nearly never died. In the end, it was slower but not THAT much, and I died much less than with any other class except my huntress (and there was a much higher difference between said huntress and any other character than between the priestess and the fastest non-hunter or warlock character).

And when you claim it's idiotic to level as a healer, it seems you're just showing the typical binary obsession with "n°1 or bust", which is at the root of most of these absurd generalisations I spoke above.

[anon5123]

If you want 1 spec fits all

I never said that. Nice strawman.

[ManiaCCC]

If you want to play vanilla, then play vanilla.

If you want to play retail, then go play retail.

This isn't hard, people.

I would add one more:

If you want to play vanilla, then play vanilla.

If you want to play retail, then go play retail.

If you want to play classic, then go play classic. (soon)

[Heladys]

I would add one more:

If you want to play vanilla, then play vanilla.

If you want to play retail, then go play retail.

If you want to play classic, then go play classic. (soon)

Sure, as long as you understand that 'classic' is just bugfixed vanilla. Not vanilla plus a bunch of stuff you would like.

[maomoa]

nice slippery slope argument

Thanks!

Without defining a threshold for what is considered to be an acceptable change from true 1.1 to 1.12, the shear number of people requesting a single change will alter the game into something it was not.

Do you give Paladin taunt without giving AoE loot? Why does one deserve to get attention and not the other? Where do changes stop?

They stop at bug fixes and exploits. Problem solved.

- - - Updated - - -

Sure, as long as you understand that 'classic' is just bugfixed vanilla. Not vanilla plus a bunch of stuff you would like.

How is this such a hard concept to understand?

[Wiedzemir]

I never said that. Nice strawman.

What's you argument then?

[ManiaCCC]

Sure, as long as you understand that 'classic' is just bugfixed vanilla. Not vanilla plus a bunch of stuff you would like.

We don't know yet. We will see what it will really be.

[AceofH]

We don't know yet. We will see what it will really be.

considering blizzard is on record as saying vanilla is vanilla, and that they intend to remain as true to vanilla as possible, and that it means the game will have all its rough edges, it sounds like blizzard is more in line with what those who want vanilla want and not those who want vanilla light...

[MrHappy]

let's be real here classic will never be 1.0 patch wow....ever....no one will want to play broken piece of crap. Classic wow will have a lot of elements of 1.0 wow but there will be modern QoL changes to it. People want the difficulty but not the stupid shit like oh i fell through the world because i tried to loot a mob through a tree.

most of this thread is arguing semantics.

That being said some of the things people are asking for....well that may or may not be in the game because how much non vanilla stuff can you put in before it's now French vanilla wow instead. there needs to be a boundary set...a firm boundary. Dual spec....that's kind of pushing it to French Vanilla already i don't know where I would stand on this...but if given the choice...it would be out. #personalopiniondon'thate

aoe loot....100% out....you need to stand there for 20min looting your leather farm like the vanilla player you are.
The only flying this game will have would be the bats that are trying to kill you, so don't even dream of it.
cookie cutter specs for all classes...hunters take note 5/13/43 or you are doing it wrong go back to town and change your talents for 100g to 5/13/43 before i will inv you to run for 15min to a summoning stone for the healer to afk and head back to town and look for another healer for 20min to take 15min to run back with the healer to spend 2h and 45min clearing BRF.

[bryroo]

Classic Servers aren't going to be anything like Vanilla Warcraft because Vanilla had friendly and helpful players

[Kelato]

You think that you have the end all be all argument and anything else is invalid. Thats fine that you think that way.. its delusional, but its fine that you think that way, but a little word of advice: don't dismiss people just because they don't believe or think the way that you do. You will go further in life if you try to be objective and not closed minded about things.

But you can still become President of the United States if you don't follow this advice

OT:

Following the recent discussions i have a feeling that Blizzard can only lose in this whole thing as people are already deeply divided and there is no way to implement a Classic version that won't upset a part of the playerbase.

[ManiaCCC]

considering blizzard is on record as saying vanilla is vanilla, and that they intend to remain as true to vanilla as possible, and that it means the game will have all its rough edges, it sounds like blizzard is more in line with what those who want vanilla want and not those who want vanilla light...

Also they said there will be some design decisions, they will want discuss with community at later date. So.. Blizzard is actually playing it very safe. While they made clear they don't want LFG, LFR tools in the game, they kept most of the doors open, just to be able make any changes if it will make sense.

[AceofH]

Also they said there will be some design decisions, they will want discuss with community at later date. So.. Blizzard is actually playing it very safe. While they made clear they don't want LFG, LFR tools in the game, they kept most of the doors open, just to be able make any changes if it will make sense.

and by later on, that means they should be waiting until the game has been live for about 6 months and then let anyone who is actively playing and level 60 vote on quality of life changes that have minimal impact on game play. stuff like aoe looting.

[Nomads]

and by later on, that means they should be waiting until the game has been live for about 6 months and then let anyone who is actively playing and level 60 vote on quality of life changes that have minimal impact on game play. stuff like aoe looting.

A democracy vote like that will never work. Blizz just needs to make the best decision they can and go with it. This is why I don't mind either way it goes.

[ManiaCCC]

and by later on, that means they should be waiting until the game has been live for about 6 months and then let anyone who is actively playing and level 60 vote on quality of life changes that have minimal impact on game play. stuff like aoe looting.

Actually, they hinted that later date means, when Classic will be ready for public testing. It is from Blizzcon interview.

[Thetruth1400]

I see the complaints but I personally don't see the big deal

That right there is the killer of your argument though; you don't see them as a big deal.

On the AoE looting, I totally agree. Yes it didn't exist back then, but really where is the harm in it? The only harm I can potentially see is it speeds up looting, therefore gold increases will be faster. You can go pull an entire dungeon, AoE it down, and hit loot on one thing and be done with it instead of having to loot every single corpse one at a time, slowing you down. Overall, I agree, it doesn't really seem like it would make things that much faster though that it would kill the economy. I guess, at most, it would make cloth cheaper.

For the transmog, I disagree though. That wasn't around in Vanilla and will cheapen the authentic feel that Vanilla had. Seeing someone in T3 was something lots of people loved. If that person really has a problem with the whispers of "Nice gear" etc. then instead of transmog they can swap out of their gear and sit around town in Twill gear instead, you know, like they did back in Vanilla.

[meian]

tbh, the vanilla crowd is pretty awful. I'm half tempted to run around on this server reminding people why they don't want vanilla with all the amazing world PvP exploits. Like knowing where to stand in order to Psychic Scream someone under the world. Or the shaman totem dancing. Dire Maul is closed kiddos! Better luck when I get tired of one-shotting you. Or the GMC Eyes of the Beast combo. Or just GMC when it could blow your long cooldowns for you. Or the old breathing timers. I can't wait to drown you kids with Mind Control. How about the extra attack weapons pre-nerf? I could go on, but why bother? Honestly, I hope they make it so that you can't use Whispercast. <^> (o.o) <^> the Alliance.

Couldn't it be argued that you knew people by spec as well? And so wha if oyu don't know what gear they have from how they look, it doesn't break the game

Nah. People, especially raiders, changed specs constantly. It just got expensive to do it, that's all. You told people apart by their epic mount, if they had one and they only had ONE because that was expensive, and their gear.

Their spec... like really? Besides SPriest, can you tell the difference between a Holy or Disc priest at a glance? How about which flavor of mage? Rogue? They're using swords! They must be Combat! Nope, Hemo. Daggers! Must be Assassination. Nope, Combat Daggers. Warrior? Hey, he must be Arms! Nope, 2H Fury. Paladin? Who cares. Scrub class.

Correct. There is no room for debate. The reason you keep seeing the same answer, OP, is because asking for things to be added to Classic which were not originally in Classic is illogical.

What is getting old are endless threads with ideas on how to change the Classic experience by introducing post Vanilla conveniences.

Anyone who thinks that Blizzard is going to waste the time to do manual loot exchanges via GM ticket is out of their damn mind. The two hour loot trade window is going to be a thing.

[Nomads]

Anyone who thinks that Blizzard is going to waste the time to do manual loot exchanges via GM ticket is out of their damn mind. The two hour loot trade window is going to be a thing.

Or they could do nothing. Just say if you make a mistake, you have to live with it.

[Wiedzemir]

Or they could do nothing. Just say if you make a mistake, you have to live with it.

This. Master loot isn't rocket science to handle.

[Deleted]

People say this because they want the true classic WoW experience, not classic with a bunch of shit added on. And I, personally, couldn't agree more with them.