"go play retail then" is getting old

[rewhaha]

Lol, you just want the delusion that you are somehow more important than the other person by wearing a bit more flashier gear.

Its not 2005-2009 anymore, no one cares about your gear, prove your worth by not being shit at the game.

Sure, when i was 17-20 i gave a fuck that i had the best gear on the server and had random people in Orgri/Shatt/Dalaran for the respective expansion inspect me and ask me questions, and then i grew up and stopped giving a fuck.

And at the same time realized that with so many scrubs existing, along with some of my friends wearing similar gear as mine but i actually knew they were god fucking awful at the game, it didnt mean shit.

Transmog is one of the better things added to the game, makes no difference to the playstyle of the game.

you're neglecting so many things. With world pvp, seeing your opponent's gear was a matter of survival. Transmog essentially replaces gear with a stat spreadtsheet

It won't matter anyway. even if they opened transmog, you wouldn't even have that many options since gear will be much harder to obtain.

[Improtaight]

you seem to have some serious memory problems if you dont remember spending large portions of your money on respecs in vanilla. i was alternating specs every week between changing to shadow to farm and pvp, and changing back to holy to heal, because fucking farming in holy

hey, it was how many years ago? i didnt respec that much because i was main prot, but i do remember that something around the respecs cost money, and everytime u spec it cost more right?
really been a long time, i try to remember important things :P

[Trunksee]

hey, it was how many years ago? i didnt respec that much because i was main prot, but i do remember that something around the respecs cost money, and everytime u spec it cost more right?
really been a long time, i try to remember important things :P

5g to start capped at 50g. I was a mage raiding as fire switching to frost or pom pyro for pvp more than 3 times a week as we were raiding 5 nights a week. It wasnt that big of a deal. It was part of the game you just planned for. Dual spec made people more comfortable but come on it only benefited people who were switching during raids. I even did it mid raid everyonce in a while i raided mc and bwl half fire half frost. I had a full spell penetration gear set to run those raids as fire destroying my frost dps. If you need to do it just plan for it.

- - - Updated - - -

Lol, you just want the delusion that you are somehow more important than the other person by wearing a bit more flashier gear.

Its not 2005-2009 anymore, no one cares about your gear, prove your worth by not being shit at the game.

Sure, when i was 17-20 i gave a fuck that i had the best gear on the server and had random people in Orgri/Shatt/Dalaran for the respective expansion inspect me and ask me questions, and then i grew up and stopped giving a fuck.

And at the same time realized that with so many scrubs existing, along with some of my friends wearing similar gear as mine but i actually knew they were god fucking awful at the game, it didnt mean shit.

Transmog is one of the better things added to the game, makes no difference to the playstyle of the game.

Congrats on being a millennial. No one can be special outwardly. Heres your free way to hide your gear so you dont feel bad. Yes people will still care if someone is in better gear in vanilla. Dont be dilusional. Transmog was added for people who felt bad they werent as good. I enjoyed seeing others in better gear it made me want that gear and made me want to play more.

[BadguyNotBadGuy]

hey, it was how many years ago? i didnt respec that much because i was main prot, but i do remember that something around the respecs cost money, and everytime u spec it cost more right?
really been a long time, i try to remember important things :P

it slowly increased in price till it reached 50g per respec... which was a lot of smackaroons back in vanilla

[AceofH]

Transmog is one of the best features added ever. Playing on classic with out transmog will suck as I will look like a clown once again. Some of the best item combinations stat wise looked awful.

Purely your own opinion. It is not a fact

[Deleted]

Transmog is one of the best features added ever. Playing on classic with out transmog will suck as I will look like a clown once again. Some of the best item combinations stat wise looked awful.

Then do it manually like a oldschool roleplayer.
Have one set to show on the city and one combat set for PvP and raids.
That's how i've done it pre transmog.

[khalltusk]

Purely your own opinion. It is not a fact

I did not say it was a fact. You should assume it is an opinion unless i say "it is a fact that x y z".

Then do it manually like a oldschool roleplayer.
Have one set to show on the city and one combat set for PvP and raids.
That's how i've done it pre transmog.

Yeh I did that sort of thing for years. It was annoying having junk everywhere in my bags (was even worse after xmog came out as I had no bank space left! glad they changed it on live).

I will play classic for sure with no xmog. If they added it sure id love it but im realistic to know it wont happen.

[shifu]

Lol, you just want the delusion that you are somehow more important than the other person by wearing a bit more flashier gear.

Its not 2005-2009 anymore, no one cares about your gear, prove your worth by not being shit at the game.

Sure, when i was 17-20 i gave a fuck that i had the best gear on the server and had random people in Orgri/Shatt/Dalaran for the respective expansion inspect me and ask me questions, and then i grew up and stopped giving a fuck.

And at the same time realized that with so many scrubs existing, along with some of my friends wearing similar gear as mine but i actually knew they were god fucking awful at the game, it didnt mean shit.

Transmog is one of the better things added to the game, makes no difference to the playstyle of the game.

Respectfully, I disagree. There were numerous times in Vanilla world PVP for me. Based on the gear / weapons people had equipped would determine not only if i would engage in a fight but how I would fight in that scenario based on what they were wearing.

Knowing exactly what gear people had on at a second glance was a very valuable tool. Introduce transmog and now everything is up in the air and that tool in no longer viable. Learning what gear was good and bad in Vanilla was very beneficial in certain situation for me.

[Deleted]

but i was highlighting that sentence because thats the one i was mentioning specifically.

wow was more popular back in vanilla because it was the best MMO around, with bunch of innovations, during a time when MMOs were really getting popular amongst gamers. this continued till about the end of wrath. since then many of the people who played grew up, got jobs, some grew out of gaming, some dont like where wow has come and some simply dont like MMOs anymore, and nowadays MMOs in general no longer maintain the same popularity that they did back in vanilla/tbc/wotlk.

so there are a lot more external factors than there are internal ones. though the fuck ups blizz did in cata wod and legion are also noticeable issues.

It seems like getting into the this "why was WoW best" discussion is a good way to make this discussion very circular and repeat the same stuff that was said before - but OK, let's try.

First - I did not like Vanilla very much when it came out. I was EQ player and thought it was a horribly casual mess for "kiddies" who needed handholding. It had instanced dungeons.. soloing.. you ressed at your corpse.. and other things that I thought were just "casual bullshit" and not for "real gamers". So please note that was my baseline experience coming to WoW. Popularity != "the best". I didn't think it was the best. Compared to what it is now, however, it was miles and miles better.

BUT - those are just my very anecdotal experiences and opinions - I can't really say why people don't like current retail, or what the exact secret sauce was that made WoW win over EQ. I can base it on my own experiences, but we're talking about millions and millions of people. It's impossible to know the exact features that started the raise and fall of the greatness.

That's why I'm very, very careful when I suggest things that should be added or "fixed" in vanilla. I don't want it changed, because none of us knows for real what made it tick. Maybe it was just the zeitgeist? Maybe it was just that and nothing else? Who the hell knows.

That's why I'd like a vanilla that is.. well, some of the 1.xx patch versions. I don't particularly care which - but I really don't want to see anything added or removed on the grounds of "this won't hurt" or "this change doesn't affect anyone".

I'd just like to have a vanilla wow, published legally.

[Projectmars]

It seems like getting into the this "why was WoW best" discussion is a good way to make this discussion very circular and repeat the same stuff that was said before - but OK, let's try.

First - I did not like Vanilla very much when it came out. I was EQ player and thought it was a horribly casual mess for "kiddies" who needed handholding. It had instanced dungeons.. soloing.. you ressed at your corpse.. and other things that I thought were just "casual bullshit" and not for "real gamers". So please note that was my baseline experience coming to WoW. Popularity != "the best". I didn't think it was the best. Compared to what it is now, however, it was miles and miles better.

BUT - those are just my very anecdotal experiences and opinions - I can't really say why people don't like current retail, or what the exact secret sauce was that made WoW win over EQ. I can base it on my own experiences, but we're talking about millions and millions of people. It's impossible to know the exact features that started the raise and fall of the greatness.

That's why I'm very, very careful when I suggest things that should be added or "fixed" in vanilla. I don't want it changed, because none of us knows for real what made it tick. Maybe it was just the zeitgeist? Maybe it was just that and nothing else? Who the hell knows.

That's why I'd like a vanilla that is.. well, some of the 1.xx patch versions. I don't particularly care which - but I really don't want to see anything added or removed on the grounds of "this won't hurt" or "this change doesn't affect anyone".

I'd just like to have a vanilla wow, published legally.

Combination of factors really. The Warcraft RTS series was really popular, so it was all taking place in a world that a lot of people wanted to be a part of. Therefor, it already had a large amount of people invested in it, since it was the continuation of a well liked series. Additionally, as you mention the stuff that made you considered Classic WoW to have been "casual bullshit" is what made it so appealing. By going for a more casual approach, WoW was able to get tons of people interested as Word of Mouth spread and caused people to come play in droves. On top of that, the internet had improved to the point where such a game, with millions of players and many thousands online at the same time, was possible... so if it wasn't WoW, then it likely would have been a different MMO.

at least, that's my opinion on things.

[evogsr]

Combination of factors really. The Warcraft RTS series was really popular, so it was all taking place in a world that a lot of people wanted to be a part of. Therefor, it already had a large amount of people invested in it, since it was the continuation of a well liked series. Additionally, as you mention the stuff that made you considered Classic WoW to have been "casual bullshit" is what made it so appealing. By going for a more casual approach, WoW was able to get tons of people interested as Word of Mouth spread and caused people to come play in droves. On top of that, the internet had improved to the point where such a game, with millions of players and many thousands online at the same time, was possible... so if it wasn't WoW, then it likely would have been a different MMO.

at least, that's my opinion on things.

I can agree with this. I had been ported over from FFXI - which I had quit maybe about 6 months prior to WoW's launch. I had approached that game as a hardcore player. Aside from Warcraft's notoriety as a brand, WoW's slightly softer approach to an MMO - partially driven by being able to accomplish quite a bit as a solo player in and out of the leveling experience - was a large factor that led me to quitting FFXI early on and follow the development of WoW right into release, knowing that it was really what I wanted in a game. It kept the scales between hardcore and casual right where I had wanted them. And as you said, it was likely the same for a lot of other players coming over from EQ, UO, AO, etc.

[hulkgor]

You know what's old?
Vanilla.

So is the Lord of the Rings, original Star Wars trilogy, Final Fantasy VII, The Doors, van Gogh's paintings, etc etc.

Guess all those are shit and in need of a revamp, 'eh?

[potis]

you're neglecting so many things. With world pvp, seeing your opponent's gear was a matter of survival. Transmog essentially replaces gear with a stat spreadtsheet

It won't matter anyway. even if they opened transmog, you wouldn't even have that many options since gear will be much harder to obtain.

Terrible logic of plebeian proportions.

A decent player can recognize what the other person is wearing averagely by the HP value.

- - - Updated - - -

Respectfully, I disagree. There were numerous times in Vanilla world PVP for me. Based on the gear / weapons people had equipped would determine not only if i would engage in a fight but how I would fight in that scenario based on what they were wearing.

Knowing exactly what gear people had on at a second glance was a very valuable tool. Introduce transmog and now everything is up in the air and that tool in no longer viable. Learning what gear was good and bad in Vanilla was very beneficial in certain situation for me.

Same as above, if you did anything remotely relevant for Vanilla standards, you wouldnt care what the others would be wearing cause usually there was a total of about 100 barely 200 characters with relevant gear on a server that could be a threat to you, assuming you had a relevant class.

Same as i did on my way to Naxx.

1 Whirlwind for fun, kill 10 allies at WPL doing the graveyard quests next to uther statue, wait for them to cry dear murder on General, wait for the adorable gather of level 50-60s, destroy everything, start a war, get my personal rank 14 healer shaman who was on his way to Naxx also destroy them repeatedly till raid time, it did get dangerous eventually when another Warrior would show up, MS debuff hurts Not the damage the Warrior did, his debuff hurt

Transmog wouldnt matter, when they can click and see "6000 HP" when themselves have barely 50% of that.

Transmog is irrelevant to the game, you can understand pretty much everything by the HP values, especially in Vanilla were its insanely obvious.

Also, if you people really want "Vanilla" you will know after a few weeks which guilds/people to avoid, part of the community, remember?

[Deleted]

Sure, when i was 17-20 i gave a fuck that i had the best gear on the server and had random people in Orgri/Shatt/Dalaran for the respective expansion inspect me and ask me questions, and then i grew up and stopped giving a fuck.

Hmm, well I was well over 30 when vanilla came out, but I really don't think they should add transmorg to vanilla, so I don't how well that theory holds... It's cool that you like the feature, but can we just leave it to retail and let vanilla be the game it was - with warts and all? That's part of the charm.

[potis]

Hmm, well I was well over 30 when vanilla came out, but I really don't think they should add transmorg to vanilla, so I don't how well that theory holds... It's cool that you like the feature, but can we just leave it to retail and let vanilla be the game it was - with warts and all? That's part of the charm.

No no, dont confuse, i dont care if Transmog is added or not to Vanilla, what i am trying to say is, its irrelevant to the gameplay.

The only thing Vanilla has for it, is the RPG feeling gameplay of everything being slow and shitty.

Transmog, does not affect that, and many more similar irrelevant things, they are not gameplay related, i dont understand why people cry dear murder about them, that is my point.

As example, reducing the cost of respeccing, i understand dual spec can be an issue lets not add that, but reducing the cost of respec is not a bad thing, neither is relevant to the gameplay.

[Unholyground]

I think if they tinker with anything it should just be to remove the respec cost, it would allow people more freedom when leveling and doing dungeons in classic and at max level as well.

[stomination]

Exactly. The people who actually fought, scratched and clawed for this want the original classic WoW experience. Not 'kinda like classic, but with modern bits too!'

Define original. At what patch would it be considered no longer "original"?

[Deleted]

The only thing Vanilla has for it, is the RPG feeling gameplay of everything being slow and shitty.

OK, gotcha. I guess you're not going to play the slow and shitty game anyhow sooo.. go play retail, maybe?

[Deleted]

No no, dont confuse, i dont care if Transmog is added or not to Vanilla, what i am trying to say is, its irrelevant to the gameplay.

The only thing Vanilla has for it, is the RPG feeling gameplay of everything being slow and shitty.

Transmog, does not affect that, and many more similar irrelevant things, they are not gameplay related, i dont understand why people cry dear murder about them, that is my point.

As example, reducing the cost of respeccing, i understand dual spec can be an issue lets not add that, but reducing the cost of respec is not a bad thing, neither is relevant to the gameplay.

Transmog affects gameplay.
When "looking good" is taken for granted it stops being special (to you and for everyone else).
Getting raid tier pieces becomes a mini game as a collector to make your character look good when there is no transmog.
There needs to be "progression" in aspects as well. "Progression" is not only about stats. "looks" are very important.

When everyone looks good no one is special anymore and you have nothing to look forward to.

[Forogil]

Transmog affects gameplay.
When "looking good" is taken for granted it stops being special (to you and for everyone else).

But you still have to earn the looks you use. You cannot transmog to t3 if you don't have it.

Getting raid tier pieces becomes a mini game as a collector to make your character look good when there is no transmog.

Other way round: it becomes a real collection game if there is transmog - or even the possibility of transmog.
Based on the sums some are willing to pay for t3(right?) on BMAH there are bound to be some willing to play just to get that.