"go play retail then" is getting old

[Collegeguy]

Who exactly hated dual spec?

[evogsr]

Aside from transmog having a substantial negative effect on pvp, yet another short sighted point that transmog babies are completely glossing over is acquiring the piece to begin with.

The current transmog system would have a horrible effect on raid loot. Raid bosses would drop two items, and occasionally a third (dependent upon raid, boss, and patch). Since there was such a limited amount of items dropping, meant that most raids either assigned items specifically to their core raiders, they used dkp or a system like it to allow raiders present to bid on items. If you run a bid system, you can't really put restrictions on what people can bid on, or it won't be long until you don't have people showing up to a raid.

As if the original Vanilla experience wasn't bad enough with classes bidding on items that weren't stat suited for their class, simply because they wanted to have a cool looking weapon for standing around in IF/Org. Hunters were some of the worst offenders. Current transmog system would quantify and exacerbate an already horrible problem into an even worse one, giving players a justification for bidding on items that have no applicable use for their class- whatsoever.

[Pickynerd]

I agree for the most part. Doesn't mean everything that came after vanilla was shit.

I am pretty sure that is what I said.

[Pickynerd]

Who exactly hated dual spec?

Actually a lot of people did, because off-spec's killing the niche.

[Deleted]

You have an improved version of the game. Live.
I didn't ask for vanilla so you could come in and change things about it. I asked for vanilla to get away from all the quality of life changes.

Transmog breaks the game because the value of items change. Look at the cost of even low level greens.


https://eu.battle.net/forums/de/wow/topic/17617141631

As for your part about what changes. They were referencing within vanilla itself. 10 man scholo or 5 man.
What talents? Linked flight or unlinked.

If transmog has no effect on gameplay you wouldn't mind if they implemented a system where you have to literally loot the item yourself or craft it yourself to mog it right? No buying from someone else, no buying off ah. Because your going to ruin the economy otherwise.

The cost on low lvl greens in live is because the cosmetic value is the only value they have, and players have more gold than they would ever need... in a vanilla environnement you would find those greens by yourself while questing and dungeon in the lvl10 to 60 range. People rush that part with heirlooms now! In vanilla raids people will need for upgrades, not Tmog... asshats rolling for the skinz were there in vanilla...

I wouldn't mind a system where I have to loot or craft an item myself to mog. No buying from someone else, no ah. But tmog ruining the economy in the classic world, I dont believe that. Chinese gold or tokens are going to ruin the economy. Not Tmog.

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Actually a lot of people did, because off-spec's killing the niche.

And another lots of people hated it because it still wasn't enough. The day we had dual spec, they started asking for triple spec.... blizzard said "lol! No....". Blizzard can draw the line.
I dont know if it kills the niche, but it saved my raid team... now with 40man raids it wouldn't have been enough.

[rewhaha]

Actually a lot of people did, because off-spec's killing the niche.

it was already killed. anyone who raided when it was released understood that they would be expected to respec.

thing is, not that many people raided prior to release. The only people that would have objected to duel spec were those who had zero experience raiding.

[stomination]

It's WoW Classic. Therefore it's presumed that what you want is CLASSIC. That means without LFD, without transmog, without new models, without aoe looting, without dual spec. That's the whole point.

That depends on what group you are asking. This new "Classic retail" is going to be just like the current "expansions" were there are a contingency of people that want different things.

[Charge me Doctor]

Nobody, but the argument against it is a decent one worth respecting. Thre idea is that you become more invested in your character and spec because of the high price in order to change (after you respec a few times that is)

You remember that original cost of dual spec was quite high? Like, 1k in wotlk wasn't something you could dump without a notice, so if they keep the 1k gold cost (without an ability to reduce it via rep) for classic would you be fine with that? Because it will be worth of at least 20 talent resets from trainer (and i must add that dual-spec doesn't mean that you don't need to buy talent resets, so if you just happen to get a good 2-handed axe and you specced into a sword spec, you still have to pay your 50g to rearrange your talents).
Also an ability to use dual-specs on the fly is extremely overrated for hybrids, because you would have to drag around a whole set of items with you for that purpose, which isn't viable because bag space was heavily limited back then, and PS crank up random bag drops to the maximum, in vanilla you had to buy overpriced bags from AH (because most cloth magically went away from the game economy for rep grinds and AQ opening)

[Ragetacular]

Go actually play vanilla and see how often you die before you reach level 10. Then get back here.

I played on Nost from opening to close.

Vanilla wasnt hard, just tedious.

[rewhaha]

You remember that original cost of dual spec was quite high? Like, 1k in wotlk wasn't something you could dump without a notice, so if they keep the 1k gold cost (without an ability to reduce it via rep) for classic would you be fine with that? Because it will be worth of at least 20 talent resets from trainer (and i must add that dual-spec doesn't mean that you don't need to buy talent resets, so if you just happen to get a good 2-handed axe and you specced into a sword spec, you still have to pay your 50g to rearrange your talents).
Also an ability to use dual-specs on the fly is extremely overrated for hybrids, because you would have to drag around a whole set of items with you for that purpose, which isn't viable because bag space was heavily limited back then, and PS crank up random bag drops to the maximum, in vanilla you had to buy overpriced bags from AH (because most cloth magically went away from the game economy for rep grinds and AQ opening)

very true. People seem to conflate the state of features as they are currently with how they were when released. free dual specs, with the current gear system (stats automatically adjust) is SO MUCH DIFFERENT than dual spec when released.

[Charge me Doctor]

The cost on low lvl greens in live is because the cosmetic value is the only value they have, and players have more gold than they would ever need... in a vanilla environnement you would find those greens by yourself while questing and dungeon in the lvl10 to 60 range. In a vanilla raids people will need for upgrades, not Tmog...

I wouldn't mind a system where I have to loot or craft an item myself to mog. No buying from someone else, no ah. But tmog ruining the economy in the classic world, I dont believe that. Chinese gold or tokens are going to ruin the economy. Not Tmog.

That's not true, (decent) green drops were quite rare (they would be still better than your low level quest whites, but paying 15 silver for a +1str green glove is just ridiculous). You could easily find yourself wearing a level 10 green quest piece on ~30 level character, because you would have to make a decision of "do i buy a stormwind teleport or i buy myself a piece of gear?". Again, if you come from PSs - they cranked up most drops too high to make it more pleasurable experience and for enchanters to not want to hang themselves

[Deleted]

That's not true, (decent) green drops were quite rare (they would be still better than your low level quest whites, but paying 15 silver for a +1str green glove is just ridiculous). You could easily find yourself wearing a level 10 green quest piece on ~30 level character, because you would have to make a decision of "do i buy a stormwind teleport or i buy myself a piece of gear?". Again, if you come from PSs - they cranked up most drops too high to make it more pleasurable experience and for enchanters to not want to hang themselves

And whats the difference if you have Tmog? You don't have players with WoD/legion kind of gold anyway. So you dont put a low lvl green item in the AH with a ridiculous price because of its skin, simply because nobody have that kind of gold!

And for the last bit, are you telling me that those players crying for a 2004 copy do in fact play on "easy mod" servers? Would be fucking hilarious!!

[hulkgor]

I played on Nost from opening to close.

Vanilla wasnt hard, just tedious.

You do realize legacy servers aren't exactly like vanilla was, right? I appreciate legacy realms, played a lot on some, but a lot of things are different from actual vanilla and 1.12 legacy realms, in particular player power is a lot stronger from the get go, mobs aren't tuned exactly the same way, and a lot of others things vary.

It's 'similar', but not the same thing.

[Deleted]

You do realize legacy servers aren't exactly like vanilla was, right? I appreciate legacy realms, played a lot on some, but a lot of things are different from actual vanilla and 1.12 legacy realms, in particular player power is a lot stronger from the get go, mobs aren't tuned exactly the same way, and a lot of others things vary.

It's 'similar', but not the same thing.

Yet PS players are here begging for no change at all, pure vanilla experience, calling other people names, telling them to "go play retail then"? "We know what we want, we play PS for years!" Lmfao....

[anon5123]

I'm pretty convinced it'll die a very quick death.

10 years of private servers say "hi".

inb4 "hurr people only play because it's free XD" and the usual bullshit

[stomination]

So you think he will cave in if you complain enough and give you LFG and xmog in Classic?

Blizz caves to w.e gets them money. Like most companies

[Veyne]

If transmog has no effect on gameplay you wouldn't mind if they implemented a system where you have to literally loot the item yourself or craft it yourself to mog it right? No buying from someone else, no buying off ah. Because your going to ruin the economy otherwise.

I've bought maybe 2 or three pieces of transmog gear on the AH that I did no already own because I decided that it may or may nor work with my current gear in transmog, only to transmog myself back into tier sets I've earned throughout the years the very next day. So yeah. No. Transmog would have zero impact on me in vanilla. I woiuld transmog the pieces I have, if I had them. And if I didn't have them, I'd farm them.

Out of all the possible changes they could make to vanilla, "no transmog" is literally the most ridiculous argument I've come across.

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there weren't that many BiS players back then. Hence the point. You're still looking at it from a wrath baby perspective

I've been playing since classic, though admittedly never level capped. Been a serious raider since pretty much day 1 TBC. As I Holy priest, I was stuck with BiS crafted items for most of my slots. When then introduced the Swiftmend set, those became priority. I looked exactly like every other Blood Elf Holy Priest. The only difference was our hair styles and colors. All of the mages looked the same. All of the Warlocks looked the same.

So what was your point again?

[rewhaha]

I've bought maybe 2 or three pieces of transmog gear on the AH that I did no already own because I decided that it may or may nor work with my current gear in transmog, only to transmog myself back into tier sets I've earned throughout the years the very next day. So yeah. No. Transmog would have zero impact on me in vanilla. I woiuld transmog the pieces I have, if I had them. And if I didn't have them, I'd farm them.

Out of all the possible changes they could make to vanilla, "no transmog" is literally the most ridiculous argument I've come across.

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I've been playing since classic, though admittedly never level capped. Been a serious raider since pretty much day 1 TBC. As I Holy priest, I was stuck with BiS crafted items for most of my slots. When then introduced the Swiftmend set, those became priority. I looked exactly like every other Blood Elf Holy Priest. The only difference was our hair styles and colors. All of the mages looked the same. All of the Warlocks looked the same.

So what was your point again?

my point is that you could tell if someone was raiding black temple/hyjal/sunwell or not jsut by looking at them. BiS crafted gear? that's not best in slot. there aren't tiers of BiS

[Veyne]

my point is that you could tell if someone was raiding black temple/hyjal/sunwell or not jsut by looking at them. BiS crafted gear? that's not best in slot. there aren't tiers of BiS

BiS crafted gear was "creafted item you'll be stuck with the entire expansion until RNGesus smiles upon you, and you see that item that's a 1% upgrade drop from sunwell, and you actual win the roll." Not to mention, for many classes, crafted items WERE BiS regardless.

[rewhaha]

BiS crafted gear was "creafted item you'll be stuck with the entire expansion until RNGesus smiles upon you, and you see that item that's a 1% upgrade drop from sunwell, and you actual win the roll." Not to mention, for many classes, crafted items WERE BiS regardless.

That's the point brother. those who regularly raided looked different, and you could tell. Calling yourself BiS when you are not is...