"go play retail then" is getting old

[Deleted]

Let me put it in another perspective.

How many times in the past month in a half do you think i alone have seen threads asking for transmog?

I can guarantee you that I alone have seen over 50. Because instead of seeing if this is already being discussed people just start a new thread acting like they are the first person asking for it. How many days in a row do we have to post a legit answer to something before getting t8red of seeing that asked for?

You're frustrated at seeing "no changes". You're sick of seeing us post no changes.

Imagine how we must feel about every new little thread that pops up multiple times a day asking for changes?

What makes me sick is people saying "WE (classic enthousiasts) dont want change!" Talking in the name of everybody, when in fact they can see over 50 threads about xmog.... something is wrong here.

I mean, after all those threads about changes, I thought it was pretty clear that its not everybody asking for classic to be a 2004 carbon copy. Purists can simply not deal with that obviously. "We dont want changes" but you can see all those thread that pops up? So Its no change at all, or legion. Black or white. IDK.... Im not color blind, I can see nuances (you know, like vanilla with Xmog is not even close to legion) and I don't feel the need to be an extremists ready to burn everyone that doesn't share my views.

[AceofH]

What makes me sick is people saying "WE (classic enthousiasts) dont want change!" Talking in the name of everybody, when in fact they can see over 50 threads about xmog.... something is wrong here.

I mean, after all those threads about changes, I thought it was pretty clear that its not everybody asking for classic to be a 2004 carbon copy. Purists can simply not deal with that obviously. "We dont want changes" but you can see all those thread that pops up? So Its no change at all, or legion. Black or white. IDK.... Im not color blind, I can see nuances (you know, like vanilla with Xmog is not even close to legion) and I don't feel the need to be an extremists ready to burn everyone that doesn't share my views.

there are a few changes i am for. color blind mode should be something anyone agrees with. battle.net integration is all but a given. i have no issue with auto loot (not aoe loot) being a toggle instead of having to shift click.
I could get behind Dual Spec, if and only if it costs something like 750 to 1000g just to obtain it.
updated mailing is a non issue for me either.

however that is about where i draw the line. Transmog further encourages ninja looting and affects the economy of the game. as an example.

[Deleted]

Sort what stuff out? How many times have you contacted a GM so that he'd help you with a quest?

Hmm, not sure what you're asking here... you're implying standard customer support isn't a thing that companies need to offer?
Not sure how to respond to that. Customer support has been a thing in WoW since start - and it's a pretty standard concept which shouldn't be strange or alien to you if you're ... over 12..?

Are we really going to argue about that?

[Wiedzemir]

Hmm, not sure what you're asking here... you're implying standard customer support isn't a thing that companies need to offer?
Not sure how to respond to that. Customer support has been a thing in WoW since start - and it's a pretty standard concept which shouldn't be strange or alien to you if you're ... over 12..?

Are we really going to argue about that?

I argue about your mental gymnastics trying to tie quest tracker to customer support.

[Deleted]

Transmog further encourages ninja looting and affects the economy of the game. as an example.

But you said you could get behind dual spec?

No ninja for off spec gear.
Ninja for xmog gear.

Well........... That's weird logic right here

I don't believe the economic argument. You don't spend more money for xmog than you spend on an upgrade or chrystal for expensive as fuck enchant. Shared skins, Master loot, "item x reserved" PU, runs with friends, etc. .... if you see overpriced item for it's cosmetic value in vanilla, put the blame on Chinese gold or gold tokens.

[Alienshroom]

The split between retail and classic is that the retail players are conditioned to never quit playing this game no matter how many gallons of shit are poured on to them. Saying WoW is a game triggers them. They spent the past 10 years of their life learning nothing, doing nothing, what they have done is sit on WoW. They play this game for one reason and one reason only, total obligation. They want this to be an obligation. They would sign papers pledging to never quit if Blizzard had a program for it.

The classic players want to play the older version of the game because its fun for us. I might get 15 days played, or maybe ill get 60 days played. Some players might down KT with 30 days played, but maybe it will take another person 100 days played. It does not matter. Its a game, not a lifestyle even if some people are in a sad enough state of existence to treat it like one. The road to KT is long enough to warrant an unedited release of this game. People worried about sustainability are fools. If someone wants to quit once they down KT that is completely fine. Its called moving on and living life. If you seriously think that quitting this game after KT is a bad thing then you have far more problems to be worrying about then transmog in vanilla WoW.

Saying classic cant be released as is would be like saying Blizzard needs to continue to update and support Diablo 3 on PS3 and 360. This product has a shelf life, they will make their money back, so whats the big deal?

Then the cherry on top is that retail players are all wrong about their predictions. The vanilla game will be a huge success and will have great player retention for years to come.

[Vorrum]

It's pretty annoying that the smallest features means you're a retail scrub. Is there any room for a nuanced view of the issues?

aoe looting won't break the game
dual spec won't break the game


I MEAN DO YOU EXPECT BLIZZARD TECHS TO START DOING LOOT ERROR TICKETS MANUALLY AGAIN? I GUARANTEE THEY'LL ADD THE 2 HOUR LOOT TRADING WINDOW. JUST SAYIN

Go play retail then.

[rewhaha]

Well. I'd be ok with blizzard simply refusing to service these tickets. Abandon the quest and start over, that's your solution.

heh that is not the point. There were times when quest items didn't automatically delete, and was placed in a bank bag, and had the same icon as other items. Many exasperated tickets have been opened because of little things like this. When it's causing an issue in a quest chain, it can be quite complicated. Or what about when you've vendored a unique item, which is only attainable by a quest that you've already completed, but a year later you don't even remember whether you completed it or not.

Classic case of not understanding how things were really like. Common among the 'purist' crowd

[Deleted]

I argue about your mental gymnastics trying to tie quest tracker to customer support.

What the fuck are you on about mate?
You really reckon they're going to go back into hiring a bunch of GM's to do manual Customer Support work when they axed all 600 of them back in 2012?
That makes no sense. I'm quite sure the new dev team will be tasked to integrate the support stuff into the new CS platform and the new billing backend so they can use their current support for classic.

[Forogil]

I would guess this is one of the things the people they're hiring are going to do. They need to integrate the game into the new support model. They can't have GM's logging into servers to manually sort stuff out - all that is done by remote call-center, Blizzard fired their GM's long time ago. They also need to integrate the old account / billing system into battle.net.

They hired developers to solve the issue - but the idea that they will hire GMs or people to do the GM-job remotely seems farfetched.

Instead the developers will try to figure out other solutions that cost less - e.g. 2h trade window for loot, auto-character stuck button, include some addons like quest-helper and bag-helper if you couldn't search in bags back then (can't remember) - the addons existed back in Vanilla and you can disable addons, so technically they are not part of the game.

[Wiedzemir]

heh that is not the point. There were times when quest items didn't automatically delete, and was placed in a bank bag, and had the same icon as other items. Many exasperated tickets have been opened because of little things like this. When it's causing an issue in a quest chain, it can be quite complicated. Or what about when you've vendored a unique item, which is only attainable by a quest that you've already completed, but a year later you don't even remember whether you completed it or not.

Classic case of not understanding how things were really like. Common among the 'purist' crowd

It's a classic case of not being able to grasp the basics on your side since you had issues finding quest items in your bags\bank. Not to mention failure to accept responsibility of your own actions after selling or throwing away unique items.
Again, I'm all up for Blizzard refusing to service tickets like this because it's pure idiocy.

- - - Updated - - -

What the fuck are you on about mate?
You really reckon they're going to go back into hiring a bunch of GM's to do manual Customer Support work when they axed all 600 of them back in 2012?
That makes no sense. I'm quite sure the new dev team will be tasked to integrate the support stuff into the new CS platform and the new billing backend so they can use their current support for classic.

Aaaand built in QuestHelper is going to alleviate this problem how?

[rewhaha]

It's a classic case of not being able to grasp the basics on your side since you had issues finding quest items in your bags\bank. Not to mention failure to accept responsibility of your own actions after selling or throwing away unique items.
Again, I'm all up for Blizzard refusing to service tickets like this because it's pure idiocy.

- - - Updated - - -



Aaaand built in QuestHelper is going to alleviate this problem how?

support issues come up always, for very stupid reasons, in gaming and non-gaming industries. If they aren't responding to these tickets, then it isn't classic

[Kyanion]

The split between retail and classic is that the retail players are conditioned to never quit playing this game no matter how many gallons of shit are poured on to them. Saying WoW is a game triggers them. They spent the past 10 years of their life learning nothing, doing nothing, what they have done is sit on WoW. They play this game for one reason and one reason only, total obligation. They want this to be an obligation. They would sign papers pledging to never quit if Blizzard had a program for it.

*eyeroll* Yet there are Vanilla players that are just dying to get on Vanilla and play it for years never upgrading out of Vanilla. You really bring nothing to a discussion when you just try and insult one side of the debate.

[AceofH]

But you said you could get behind dual spec?

No ninja for off spec gear.
Ninja for xmog gear.

Well........... That's weird logic right here

I don't believe the economic argument. You don't spend more money for xmog than you spend on an upgrade or chrystal for expensive as fuck enchant. Shared skins, Master loot, "item x reserved" PU, runs with friends, etc. .... if you see overpriced item for it's cosmetic value in vanilla, put the blame on Chinese gold or gold tokens.

no. i said i "could" get behind dual spec. if blizzard came to me and said "if we add dual spec, and only dual spec as a quality of life feature, but add a huge cost to it, so that it takes time to earn, would you support this decision". yes. i would.

as for the affecting the economy - have you seen how much the cost of greens on the ah skyrocketed after transmog was added to the game? it was absurd. so yes, transmog affects the economy.

[Apexis]

It's pretty annoying that the smallest features means you're a retail scrub. Is there any room for a nuanced view of the issues?

aoe looting won't break the game
dual spec won't break the game


I MEAN DO YOU EXPECT BLIZZARD TECHS TO START DOING LOOT ERROR TICKETS MANUALLY AGAIN? I GUARANTEE THEY'LL ADD THE 2 HOUR LOOT TRADING WINDOW. JUST SAYIN

Anything that came after Vanilla should not be in the content, period, end of story. The content back then has to remain the way it was back then without any refinements whatsoever. One is not going to be getting the true experience, if they have AOE looting or dual specs, or pandas, or classes that did not exist back then or spells and all the rest. This would then not be Vanilla. It would be a mix bag of features throughout the game slapped into Vanilla type content. If people want something other than Vanilla, then its not going to be really Vanilla. Nothing, including bug fixes should be in the content. The whole truckload of what existed back then only needs to be in the game content. That way when people that never played back then, yet been told for years just how great it was to play back then will find out for themselves if they think the game was great back then.

[Molis]

It's pretty annoying that the smallest features means you're a retail scrub. Is there any room for a nuanced view of the issues?

aoe looting won't break the game
dual spec won't break the game


I MEAN DO YOU EXPECT BLIZZARD TECHS TO START DOING LOOT ERROR TICKETS MANUALLY AGAIN? I GUARANTEE THEY'LL ADD THE 2 HOUR LOOT TRADING WINDOW. JUST SAYIN

If you want the Vanilla experience you do not want any QoL added from future expansions.

Nobody wants your shitty Frankenstein game

[Risale]

Go play retail then.

The sarcasm is strong within you my young padawan :P

[Kyanion]

If you want the Vanilla experience you do not want any QoL added from future expansions.

Nobody wants your shitty Frankenstein game

And you don't speak for everyone.

[Xynas]

It's pretty annoying that the smallest features means you're a retail scrub. Is there any room for a nuanced view of the issues?

aoe looting won't break the game
dual spec won't break the game


I MEAN DO YOU EXPECT BLIZZARD TECHS TO START DOING LOOT ERROR TICKETS MANUALLY AGAIN? I GUARANTEE THEY'LL ADD THE 2 HOUR LOOT TRADING WINDOW. JUST SAYIN

I believe the issue is, where do you draw the line.
Quality of Life improvements are (IMO) great, but opening that can of worms would require all other QOL adjustments to be considered.

Also FYI, due to the limitation/issues behind the loot limitations in the past it was more important that you maintain your reputation in your server.

- Roll need on something that is not yours repeatedly
- Loot Mastering and Ninjaing the loot

The above behavior was considered to be some of the major no-nos in term of character reputation.

Also having a 2 hour loot window would mean that guilds would all roll on the loot and trade between themselves.

Classic was classic because of the way the user base had to adjust their playstyle and behavior to conform to the limitation and restriction.

[khalltusk]

Looking at peoples characters and instantly know their "power level" is what the main downfall of transmog. You could for a long time identify if someone was a fresh max level, pvp geared, pve geared and so on- this made you interact or fight them (pvp) differently.

Thats the only downside to it. But for the most part it's not needed. If I took anyone into a PUG and if I really needed to check their gear I would inspect. Most of the time I never bothered.