Tips for stepping up to higher M+ keys?

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

I enjoy M+ a lot, maybe more than raiding. But I've mostly focused on earning max weekly chest on main, then doing same on alts, and have made very few attempts at running higher keys. Read a great interview with Jason who tanked +23 BRH in time, enjoyed watching some of the M+ Invitational, and am starting to think about getting more ambitious.

I know a lot of you run +17-18-20s; what did you do to take that next step?

• Just spam a lot of M+ and gradually pick stuff up?
• Spam the same dungeons with same group and work on specifics?
• Study guides?
• Something else?
• All of the above?

What helped you the most? What tips would you give someone on how best to up their game?

Thanks in advance to those who choose to share.

[TwentyTwelve]

You might want to comment what role you play as i find it's a lot more punishing on tanks and healers than it is for DPS.

Generally though for tanking, once you're comfortable with what pulls a dungeon needs for the percent you can start upping the levels, however this changes with some affixs of course, think this week - we have teeming, explosive and fort, this makes some pulls in CoS stupid/impossible which you would normally do (double inquisitor packs as they near enough one hit alone on high keys), so you must pull different, easier trash to avoid them.

If you're a dps you're pretty much limited by what numbers you can pull, and as a healer, i guess it's dungeon dependant as some fights (hov, Kara, CoS) have high hps checks but some dungeons are a complete joke even on high level.

You really must make use of your stuns and interrupts though, you can CC mobs of course but if you're aiming to push you want to avoid this unless impossible, as this makes the run slower, think HoV, people often CC thundercallers or what not but they're not that bad if you just lock them down with interrupt rotation / stuns.

If you have a group of friends to do it with then that's all the better, keep upping the level with that group and when you find a key you're struggling on, take the time to learn what pulls hurt and such, and if you want you can drop the level before last boss to do it better / maybe in time with the new information you have, or just finish the key to get a different one.

[Deleted]

For me it was just a lot of trial and error as part of working hard to increase my Mythic score. I returned to Legion half way through ToS having only done +2's at the start of the expansion. A LOT of pug wipes and failed groups later I'm now running 19's and 20's and I'm still picking things up. As a dps it mostly comes down to simply knowing the layout of the dungeon. When best to use cooldowns, what mobs to focus, what mobs to interrupt. Still learning new things whenever I join a pug with a class that knows a trick or two. (Most recently a druid ressing us to skip to general Xakal.) So basically trial and error in order to become optimal.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

You might want to comment what role you play as i find it's a lot more punishing on tanks and healers than it is for DPS.

I mostly tank. I main BrM and have 4 other tanks geared 940-950ish. I occasionally dps for a change of pace.

[Unbelievr]

More than anything, communication is key. You need to avoid overlapping stuns and interrupts, and call for CC and healer cooldowns when you know that you can't handle it. If you can't use voice communication, at least make sure that you have first, second and third CCer/interrupter assigned, and that all have some kind of tracking of the group CDs for them (e.g. WeakAuras).

The rest is knowing the dungeon, affixes and the group composition. Know what trash to pull, and what to avoid. Knowing when to use personal CDs. Knowing shortcuts, invisibility potion skips and dungeon mechanics (the latter especially for CoS). DPS might want to have different gear setups for AoE, single-target and survival (for Tyrannical bosses in BRH), and quckly be able to swap between them. Composition is not insanely important if the other things are in place, but certain classes are more valuable than others, if played at an equal level. Combat resses are extremely valuable, and so are classes with relatively short CDs. Classes with strong personal CDs or immunities are nearly required for certain bosses, unless they can effectively use Prydaz. Blood elves are also insanely OP in M+ with their racial AoE interrupt, and nothing else really comes close to it in usefulness.

Stepping up from +15 to much higher keys is mostly just being more effective, messing up less, wasting less time. Certain abilities become a one-shot mechanic on high keys, and those need to be identified and handled before starting the run. On really high keys, it's all about avoiding the mechanics in clever ways, while still dealing top DPS.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Watching a few videos on youtube; one thing I am seeing is everyone staying calm and communicating.
Lots of coordination without a lot of stressing.

- - - Updated - - -

Right now I have 3 gear setups saved to my action bar:

• Damage output
• Defensive for when I expect to get hammered
• Speed for runbacks and such

I should make two damage ones, one for ST and one AoE.

[Caprix]

As brm for defensive stuff i use two sets, one "general" and the other with the 2 talents ring to have both MV and DH for hard hitting boss magic abilities (like hyrja or first dude in MoS)

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

As brm for defensive stuff i use two sets, one "general" and the other with the 2 talents ring to have both MV and DH for hard hitting boss magic abilities (like hyrja or first dude in MoS)

Yeah I don't have talents ring and want it. Think that may be last one I don't have? I have been using AHR in those situations, taking MV and letting trinket replace DH cooldown.

I do also have 930 Coagulated Nightwell Residue, which gives me roughly 4m absorb shield. Recharge time depends on how much I'm getting hit.

[Loosecannon]

This is a brilliant thread. I was thinking about this myself,as I have done a bunch if 16/17s but barely ventured into more than a handful of 18+. The main thing is for me that some abilities, especially on fortified weeks can become absolutely brutal 1 shots (I'm thinking piercing shot from the archers in HoV, but I'm sure there's other examples) where even at like 14/15 you could more or less ignore them. Boss abilities I find this less So, as you tend to focus on them more, even at lower level).

I always find that it's best to try and push my own key, and make sure people know you haven't done that key that high before. If you can use voice chat for coordination that helps too, especially if you get a person or 2 who has done the dungeons on high before.

[hellhamster]

Learn what abilities to hit and on what packs is the gist of it.

[david0925]

just do them.

A lot of people get paranoid for failing the timer or even the key. Just go in there and experience the dungeon. I've seen learning gone both ways and they both work fine. One type of people may do conservative pulls and then start ramping up when they think they are short on time. Others may do crazy pulls and learn their limits through wiping.

[A-sayo]

Well, I may only speak as a BM tank.
First of all, I avoid pugs as much as possible. I do not know them or what they are capable of. However, if it happens, I try to jauge them on the 1st 2 pulls and see how they react to it. From there I set the pace the group needs to move forward.

If you want to push higher keys, try to do it with people you're used to play with (friends/guildies) since, again, you know each other's playstyle. Then, be sure to know the dungeon you're going to (from thrash to subtle tricks such as staying 30y away from Mariner in MoS so he doesn't cast his lantern) and try to stick to the same pull pattern : your dps/healer can then more easely figure out which cooldowns they can use/save. As you get more comfortable, you'll go higher and higher naturally.

[Deleted]

I know little about the "above 15 world", but this got me thinking:

staying 30y away from Mariner in MoS so he doesn't cast his lantern

Using monk-paralyzis on grubs in NL to stop them from casting and forgetting about them. Never seen them recast.
Avoiding NL avalanches instead of standard PUG tactics - "eat them all!".
Standing IN Dresaron instead of standard PUG tactics - "how many whelps can we get, do you think?".
Splitting thrash pack pulls in two or more instead of all at once in bolstering (slimes in DHT, crabs in EoA).

Maybe a good idea for a dedicated thread for such things really ... or is there such a place already?

[Deleted]

Having a fixed group that has the time and patience to work it out together with you, that's the biggest tip. You can trial & error different strats, you can fail without the risk of someone leaving the group, etc. This environment is the only environment that will allow you, and your team, to grow.

[Cheze]

the real answer is just practice; if you're doing 15s every week now, do more 15s until you've seen most of the dungeons and then start looking for higher keys. If you can run a 15 you can run a 16-17, if you can do a 16-17 you can run an 18, etc.

Bizarre or non-intuitive strats become important at like, 19-20 and up but you won't be pugging those much and if you somehow are, just ask the tank/other members if they have any oddball strats/pull orders.

[Deleted]

Experience, time, practice, commitment, luck. Like most things require both irl and in-game.

However not all ppl's brain are wired the same way. Some can evolve faster and to higher levels, some just remain glue eater Timmy mashing the buttons. We are all different.

[Bhorin]

Best tip is to find 4+ people who you like to do them with regularly and just do them.

[ID811717]

Just keep improving your M+ score, and try to befriend some people are you push the keys further. This way you can pug any keys up to +22 (possibly +23, I lack experience to be sure; I deem +24/+25 to be the cutting edge content for stable groups). The good score itself will get you into parties, but the further you go, the more often you will start playing with a clique of friends you made along the way. For keys starting from +20 it really helps to have the entire party on voice comm, and everyone in the higher-key M+ community will take it for granted.

It is really hard to form a stable group due to all kinds of compatibility/schedule/skill/composition discrepancies (same with your friend list: you can befriend many people, but only a fraction of them will play at the same pace as you; the rest will either fall behind of race ahead, losing interest to play with you). Your best bet for a stable group is to convince fellow raiders from your guild to, say, run M+ for 2h before or after each raid night. Most players that are currently doing keys between +20 and +22 are doing them in pugs. Many try to do the keys "only with friend X and Y" but you still need to pug the remaining players.

[Battlebeard]

I believe in order to get to higher keys, 20+, you simply need to be an amazing player. If you got the general skill (game understanding, reaction time, communication skills etc), a +10 or a +25 is not that big difference, only a gear difference. If you do not have the general skill, you can do the dungeon 10000 times and not improve. To practise a dungeon or all the dungeons only do a little for you but to reach the top, you gotta have the skill in the blood so to speak.

As an example, a professional Counter-Strike player who turned to WoW would have better chances than a more casual WoW veteran. A professional gamer of any e-sport really who played WoW a few months would do better than a regular WoW player who played 13 years.

[ID811717]

I believe in order to get to higher keys, 20+, you simply need to be an amazing player. If you got the general skill (game understanding, reaction time, communication skills etc), a +10 or a +25 is not that big difference, only a gear difference.

Gear is the least significant part of the equation. Doing high pluses is more about being precise and consistent with stun/interrupt rotations and all kind of cheesing tactics, rather than doing larger individual DPS/HPS numbers. As a tank, good pulls make or break the run (knowing how to min-max pulls is a huge deal). On the one hand, you want to tailor your pulls for the classes in your party, and it makes the biggest difference in terms of DPS they can provide. On the other hand, you also want to pull huge but safe, what can your healer handle? As a healer, you really want to be prepared and very reliable, as one wrong use of GCD can wipe you.

You probably need some kind of "skill in the blood" as a starting point, but you can significantly improve over time. There is a lot of generic things you can learn from other people in pugs (or even just from watching streams to see how the top people pull or cheese something), without even going into a stable-group min-max territory.