Do people really know what they are asking for?

[MoanaLisa]

When J. Allen Brack said "You think you do but you don't" and was heavily criticized for even having the thought, this is part of what he was talking about. It's clear at this point that the biggest point of contention about Classic WoW is the split between those that think they do and really want to and the many who think they do but need X, Y, and/or Z added. This is just a fact. Nobody is wrong to want to have Classic WoW the way they remember it but the forum response to QOL/Balance changes among other things has been pretty revealing.

I have a very simple view of all of it: If some QOL thing wasn't available before Burning Crusade then it should be out. Everything that was available in some 1.X patch is fair game to discuss.

[33kamous3]

I keep seeing threads like this, and I think they're kinda dumb. The OP's always seem to think that they're the only ones who remember what Vanilla was "really like," and seem to overlook or ignore the thousands of players who are or have been active on the private servers, and the thousands of players who have maintained active retail subscriptions since before the expansions. Yes, we remember. That's not to say that there isn't nostalgia and rose-tinted vision sometimes; I've seen some examples in this very thread. That playground you used to go to when you were a kid, it's not as big as you remember it, but that's no reason not to ever go there again.

I think there are some much more interesting questions that aren't being asked as much concerning the Classic idea. Is there a danger of splintering the playerbase? I do see that asked sometimes and I think it is a valid concern. Aso, What's the difference between playing WoW as a static game-world rather than a dynamic one? That is to say, throughout the history of WoW we've always known that there would be more coming in the form of new dungeons and expansions. Private servers and the Classic initiative represent the first time in WoW that there is a hard cap. Similarly, Is there a natural limit to the lifespan of such servers? I could see populations on these servers plummeting after, say, a few years, after everyone who was interested will have "beat the game" (whatever that means for them individually). I don't think anyone anticipates a sustained influx of new players over the long-term.

I think the most important thing that people are missing about the appeal of the Classic initiative is that (and maybe I can only speak for myself here), It's not about what they added, its about what they took away. I still play retail, although not particularly actively. I don't think Legion is trash. The last few expansions, I leveled to cap at release, had some fun, did some 5-mans, BG's, LFR, and kind of wander off and take a break after a year or so, then come back and play every now and then. That's fine. However, in each expansion starting with Cata, they remove/improve/revamp a couple dungeons or zones. New SM is okay, but it's sad to never get to do the old version again. Same with Deadmines, etc. I missed it. Now they say Teldrassil, one of my favorite places in WoW for over a decade, is going up in smoke.

We're not supposed to discuss private servers here, but for someone who loved things like the original SM and some of those old quests, the feeling you get when you're there again is a pretty special thing. If you can't appreciate it, by all means don't bother going there, but the people who are hyped for Classic really do want it, and they do know what they're asking for.

[Deleted]

wrath was balanced? lmao Death Knights and paladins season 1, Melee at the end until new talents.

Cata was balanced? dude. Cata was commonly called "Casterclysm" because how ranged favorable it was.

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here is the problem. you are operating under the assumption that the game began at level 60. this couldn't be further from the truth. Vanilla is not like wow today. the journey was just as important as the destination.

I haven't played wrath. But I heard on Esfands stream that a patch within wrath was actually most balanced pvp wise.

And with balance I meant hardcore - Casual. Somewhere down the middle.

[AceofH]

I haven't played wrath. But I heard on Esfands stream that a patch within wrath was actually most balanced pvp wise.

And with balance I meant hardcore - Casual. Somewhere down the middle.

so your basing it on a second hand account and not based on your own experience, and your basing it based on balance at the middle not overall. not a good indication of balance.

[Deleted]

so your basing it on a second hand account and not based on your own experience, and your basing it based on balance at the middle not overall. not a good indication of balance.

I already said Catacylsm was the most balanced pvp wise. I am not the only one saying it by the way, even Vanilla advocate Sodapoppin said the same. I haven't played Wrath so I can't judge it.

But yeah, I guess I will never play wow again.

[meroes]

If you didn't play Vanilla from pre-1.4 until 1.12 then you opinion doesn't matter. Simple as that.

Blizzard is either going to go with "classic is classic" ala 1.12 with a few changes, or they will remake vanilla in a way that appeals to modern tastes (aka people who started in Wrath or later). People who started after Vanilla won't enjoy 'classic is classic', so my guess is they are going to make an abomination of a game to appeal to more people. Only a small chance we see 'classic is classic', so a lot of people on pservers probably won't switch, me included. (even though pservers barely deserve to be compared to Vanilla)


The only hope is that they are 100% comfortable in splitting the player base. Hardcore fans for classic, rest for BFA.

[Constraint]

That's what you think now, but when you are only lvl 30 after 1 week of playing, having to read quest logs for hours straight and walk everywhere on foot?

I really don't know...

I don't understand, you are saying this as if it's a negative. Do you measure your success and happiness in an MMO solely on how fast you can get to max level, or on whether or not you can get there on a flying mount?

I know many people have worked this out by now, but it's one of life's great truths - you value things a hell of a lot more if you have to earn them through effort as opposed to everything being handed to you on a silver platter. You look back and think, "Fuck yeah. This is MY character, I made it through that, the more effort I put in, the better it'll get".

As opposed to "Yes, I paid $xx and my character hit 100, then I AFKd in a few dungeons while some level 101 twink got me to 110, where I proceeded to RNG my way through WF/TF rewards to 950 iLvl".

[Musik-Diversity86]

I think that people know very well what they want when it comes to WoW Vanilla.

The following are one-month-old stats from a new Vanilla progressive-type server that started from patch 1.2 "Mysteries of Maraudon".



In the space of just one month we got 250,000 players. So yeah, I'd say people know what they want and love it.

In the meantime, the folks at Blizzard are fap... errr sleeping and losing money every hour. The clock is ticking, Blizzard.

Incorrect, it's not 250,000 players but maybe you did not pay attention.

No one can say these players know what they want since there have been posts of Vanilla players (veterans if you may) that want to add features that were added post Vanilla. They may think they know what they want but no one will know for sure until Blizzard puts it live.

And no they are not losing money...... calm down

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I think that people know very well what they want when it comes to WoW Vanilla.

The following are one-month-old stats from a new Vanilla progressive-type server that started from patch 1.2 "Mysteries of Maraudon".



In the space of just one month we got 250,000 players. So yeah, I'd say people know what they want and love it.

In the meantime, the folks at Blizzard are fap... errr sleeping and losing money every hour. The clock is ticking, Blizzard.

My bad... just realized everyone else proved you wrong. I guess that's what made you shut up..... you ok?

[Wiedzemir]

... the forum response to QOL/Balance changes among other things has been pretty revealing....

Was it really? I don't think that forums are such a great indicator of anything. Even here, you can see the amount of trolling that such ovewhelming it's not even funny. Any public discussion of Classic eventually boils down to people demanding "re-balance everything and add LFR".

[Deleted]

I know what vanilla is like. I played from 1.1 all the way to WoD. Most of the aspects of vanilla that people mention as bad things are exactly the things I miss now. I'm not saying vanilla is better than retail in every way, because imo that's not the case. Retail is prettier, has way more engaging quest mechanics, cinematics, zones, etc. But I do miss EXACTLY those "bad" things of vanilla, like having to work long and hard to get rewards and having to actually socialize in order to get things done.

I'd play WoW again in a heartbeat if retail became more like vanilla in those aspects, but I'm not expecting that to happen (LFG / LFR is there to stay, for example), so I'm very excited at them at least reviving vanilla. I'll GLADLY pay $15 a month to get to play any version of WoW that isn't so damn full of convenience options that ruined the great parts of the game. If it has to be classic (even with its flaws that I dislike) then so be it. To me, it'll still be a lot better than the current state of WoW.

So yes, I know what I'm asking for and I very deliberately choose to play it.

[Halyon]

Literally NONE of those things are negatives, and a lot of them are wrong anyway.

To you maybe...all those points are detractors to others.

[Deleted]

To you maybe...all those points are detractors to others.

Exactly. And those others aren't the ones asking for vanilla back. Those who are, do so because they liked the way the game worked back then.

It's only logical that those who fought hard to get their (legal) version of Classic WoW get annoyed when people suddenly try to turn it into a "Classic Retail" hybrid. I'm really looking forward to playing Classic WoW, but if they add too many QoL improvements, then it won't be Classic anymore.

[Halyon]

Exactly. And those others aren't the ones asking for vanilla back. Those who are, do so because they liked the way the game worked back then.

It's only logical that those who fought hard to get their (legal) version of Classic WoW get annoyed when people suddenly try to turn it into a "Classic Retail" hybrid. I'm really looking forward to playing Classic WoW, but if they add too many QoL improvements, then it won't be Classic anymore.

That's again opinion. Some people like most of vanilla, except a few things... Suggesting QoL changes for that isn't a crime.

[Deleted]

That's again opinion. Some people like most of vanilla, except a few things... Suggesting QoL changes for that isn't a crime.

QoL changes should be little things, like improving a truly terrible spawn rate here and there. Tiny things that pretty much everyone has always agreed on as being flawed. The points in this topic are NOT mere QoL changes.

The whole Classic WoW movement came forth mainly from an adversity to many of the newer features of WoW. Now that we're getting Classic WoW, it's kinda painful to see people ask Blizzard to... implement the new systems IN CLASSIC.

You can do away anything I say as "opinion" but that's a really easy way out, don't you think. And hardly productive.

[Cheze]

the idea of bringing a realistic facsimile of vanilla back has always been kinda dumb; even allowing that obvious bugs/exploits/scripts/etc could be fixed without much objection, there was so much about it that was dumb and/or unfun (stuff like spell ranks, weapon leveling, specs not having gear support, etc.) And a lot of the stuff that genuinely was fun (the joy of discovery) can't be replicated now that we've all been playing the game for 10+ years

the best approach would be for them to do a sort of 'timewalking classic' environment, with the old zones/leveling process, discrete servers and no auto-LFD but updated game systems (i.e. no spell ranks, no weapon levels, import some abilities from BC/wrath for specs like vanilla ret, proper gear support)

then they could progress it through raid 'seasons': leveling+ZG/MC, then BWL/AQ, etc. and eventually restart with prestige/vanity rewards

[Halyon]

QoL changes should be little things, like improving a truly terrible spawn rate here and there. Tiny things that pretty much everyone has always agreed on as being flawed. The points in this topic are NOT mere QoL changes.

The whole Classic WoW movement came forth mainly from an adversity to many of the newer features of WoW. Now that we're getting Classic WoW, it's kinda painful to see people ask Blizzard to... implement the new systems IN CLASSIC.

You can do away anything I say as "opinion" but that's a really easy way out, don't you think. And hardly productive.

Why're so many against any change whatsoever then? What is it that people actually want? The vanilla experience (nostalgia), vanilla purism (no change at all), if purism, exploitation is an added question... Class balancing?

It's all over the place, just very loud minorities claiming that it isn't, but anything other than their viewpoint is wrong...

[Armourboy]

the idea of bringing a realistic facsimile of vanilla back has always been kinda dumb; even allowing that obvious bugs/exploits/scripts/etc could be fixed without much objection, there was so much about it that was dumb and/or unfun (stuff like spell ranks, weapon leveling, specs not having gear support, etc.) And a lot of the stuff that genuinely was fun (the joy of discovery) can't be replicated now that we've all been playing the game for 10+ years

the best approach would be for them to do a sort of 'timewalking classic' environment, with the old zones/leveling process, discrete servers and no auto-LFD but updated game systems (i.e. no spell ranks, no weapon levels, import some abilities from BC/wrath for specs like vanilla ret, proper gear support)

then they could progress it through raid 'seasons': leveling+ZG/MC, then BWL/AQ, etc. and eventually restart with prestige/vanity rewards

Not going to happen. They have already stated that classic will be as close to the original as possible, warts and all. Those things you consider dumb are what are classified as warts.

There will be a few changes here and there, but most of them will be on the infrastructure side for the most part. Chat changes, Customer service function, things that tie into battle.net will be what is added and adjusted.

[Gaaz]

Ah, yes... I am looking forward to soul crystal mining and arrows / bullets taking up most of your bag space. But actually f-that. I am not touching Vanilla with a long stick if it will be implemented the way it actually was "to the letter". A few nostalgia moments are not worth the PITA it took to play, considering the fact that I do not have nearly as much free time now as I did before.

[Deleted]

Ah, yes... I am looking forward to soul crystal mining and arrows / bullets taking up most of your bag space. But actually f-that. I am not touching Vanilla with a long stick if it will be implemented the way it actually was "to the letter". A few nostalgia moments are not worth the PITA it took to play, considering the fact that I do not have nearly as much free time now as I did before.

Then do us a favour and also stop vomiting your vanilla hatered all over this forum. Thank you very much in advance.

[Lolsteak]

250,000 accounts with 5,580 peak usage is chump change to blizzard lmao. I'd say this suggests people don't know what they want at all.

It's funny how people like you seem to care more about Blizzards finances than Blizzard themselves, Seeing as they've already stated that whatever the numbers they're dedicated to it.